[goldeneyee]

Can it be for real? After looking at the pics, I just don't know. The speedo digits don't perfectly line up which might be a telltale sign of a visit by none other than Miles Turner. The car has obviously been reconditioned from head to tail but still sports spiral shocks, generator tag and a host of other neat factory items. I'd have to give it high marks for that seemingly "Untampered Look" but is it all original? Someone who is a detail artist certainly did a bang up job but are the colors and finish right for the front end steering and suspension components--rear springs and shocks. Nonetheless, its certainly a neat car and with some paperwork to go with the package. Comments...... Bill Ebay: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Ponti...QQcmdZViewItem

[Jerry H.]

Personally I would rather have the car 'undetailed' to prove it's claimed mileage. And maybe I'm totally wrong, but that doesn't look like the tritone Ventura interior to me, it looks like the standard 61 Catalina interior. From the pictures I would say it is a fairly low mileage car, but I seriously doubt the 12,000 mile claim.

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by Jerry H.

that doesn't look like the tritone Ventura interior to me, it looks like the standard 61 Catalina interior.

That's because it is a Catalina. There were actually two different cloth patterns for Catalinas that year - the one in the auction is sort of striped, and there was another pattern that was more random (the Cat I had as a kid was the second style.)

I was looking at that car last night (why did he load up so many identical photographs?) and while it's a very nice car, there's no way the engine and transmission are original...they have to have been repainted. The driveshaft has been painted (and doesn't appear to have the appropriate stripes on it to ID the 'shaft.) I believe the differential pumpkin should be red oxide. There are a bunch of little things here and there like that, that tell me someone spent a lot of time detailing it out. On the other hand, look at the condition of the upholstery, dash and steering wheel, the mint condition Catalina-specific rubber floormats with the carpet on the center hump and the trunk mat, and it's obviously a very well cared for, low mileage car. It's sort of an uncommon color as well - I've only ever seen one other in person painted that color, the '61 Cat my uncle bought new. I'll be interested in how high the bidding goes.

[TININDN]

3.31 gears?

Stuart - shouldn't it have the lips on the wheel lug tangs?

Dave B.

[tom s]

REALLY nice car,has a LOT of restoration.Wrinkled paint on drivers top side valve cover.Ventura tail light lens,as said lots of little things.Dave,are those even short fin drums or 63s?Tom

[Dick Boneske]

It's a really, really nice '61 Catalina. What's not to like??? Apparantly the bidders like it, too, judging from the current price. Yes, those are '63/'64 Kelsey Hayes drums, but with correct '60-'62 trim rings and center caps. Restorations don't come much better than this car. How many '61's have any of you seen for sale this nice---anywhere?

[61-63]

It has clearly been redone and is not original but I agree "what's not to like?". Really nice car and someone spent a heck of a lot of time and money doing it up. Wish I had the $$ to get it and have it shipped down here where I live.

[radioburningchrome]

Is it correct to have the power brake, e-brake, and accelerator rod painted the body color?

Every car I have owned were/are post 1965 and all above mentioned parts were always painted flat black.

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by radioburningchrome

Is it correct to have the power brake, e-brake, and accelerator rod painted the body color?

Every car I have owned were/are post 1965 and all above mentioned parts were always painted flat black.

Yup, that's the way they were in 1961.

[tom s]

the real question is what is the price.32K and no researve.It is a auto catalina and not a Ventura.Tom

[goldeneyee]

Tom: For some buyers, they just like to turn the key and go and will pay dearly for it. This appears to be a car that there is nothing left to restore. Myself and notable others on this board, yourself included, for some inexplicable reason enjoy the punishment/challenge that a fullsize Pontiac restoration entails. There may be merit to the old adage "add gas and have fun" or is there......... Bill

[tom s]

Bill,your right!But is that car worth 60K?I think it a great car but would you drive a auto car for more than a day,I wont!LOL Also would you drive the cloth interior for very long before you would want to upgrade.Hell,I bought a VERY nice frame off 63 Cat with a "OK" interior and just had to go and spend the 3K for the SMS interior.Just cant frigging help myself.If I was to buy that car it would have a 4 speed and a correct bucket seat Ventura interior in it within a year!Tom

[goldeneyee]

Tom: The Ebay Catalina wouldn't be my cup of tea. I grew up and raced with a 4-speed in my right hand in an era that if it didn't have a loud rumble, a cam and, multiple carbs it didn't go. As for the interior, it would have to have more glitz otherwise the girls wouldn't go for it. So much for my misspent youth......or was it..... Bill

[61-63]

I'd stick a four speed and a posi (don't remember if he says it has one or not?) in it, leave the seats as is since it is a Catalina, probably paint the roof to match the body (have to think about that one?), and replace the 8 lugs with the correct '61 rims and poverty caps and blackwalls. I hate wide whites. On second thought I might leave the 8 lugs but put the blackwalls on them. I'd have to do some other stuff too like put black screws on the tops of the carbs and replate some of the carb hardware components which are the wrong color, paint the springs black and the shocks dark gray. The rims on the 8 lugs should have the lips since the car has a 12d build date. So it's a good thing I can't afford it!

[Poncho60]

All of this is way out of my financial league, but I'm not getting what all the fuss is about. Something like 95%+? of all Pontiacs were built with auto trans, so would you expect that the only really (desireable?) nice 61 bubble tops (or any year for that matter) left would be stick cars? As far as price goes, if it sells high doesn't that make your stick cars worth more? As far as originality goes, if you've painted anything on your car or replaced any parts it's not truly original anymore either---what's the big deal?

[tom s]

YES,the ONLY real desirable 61-63 big cars are 4 speed cars with bucket seats and either 3-2s or 2-4s!LOL Well,maybe with alu parts and NO 2 tones also!Tom

[hpp]

The air cleaner Ac label should be painted on,looks like the decal replacement. Also all the hose clamps should be the corbin style clamps,not the 64-73 style clamps.

[Stuckinda60s]

With all the detailing done, why the spray-bomb rebuild on the engine? The heads didn't have all the scale removed before they were painted and the bolts, gaskets and everything else were painted. Looking at the way the undercarriage was done, even though it wasn't frame-off, I don't understand why there wasn't a little more time spent on the engine. Maybe the engine was out while the rest of the detailing was done, was the last thing done and they were just tired and wanted to get done? It's a shame, it takes away from the overall car.

As far as the mileage? I believe it's low mileage, but not original. The odometer definitely looks like it's been tampered with at some point in its life.

Overall, a beautiful car with some minor flaws. It's somewhat surprising to see the price so high so early in the auction. I suspect some shilling.

If you're spray rebuilding an engine, you can take a Q-tip with some petroleum jelly on it, coat the bolts and anything you don't want to be colored, spray and then simply wipe off the vaseline and the paint. It looks a lot better than the overspray.

Rich

[TININDN]

Originally Posted by tom s

YES,the ONLY real desirable 61-63 big cars are 4 speed cars with bucket seats and either 3-2s or 2-4s!LOL Well,maybe with alu parts and NO 2 tones also!Tom

Yes, and some of the most feared Ponchos at the track in the day were automatic tripower cars, and even automatic non-tripower cars - Ramon Lowe, for example -

If this car, in my opinion, were a frame-off, and all the details were taken care-of it would be a $60 + grand piece - but discounting some of the minor flaws, and the being a frame-on cosmetic resto, it should bring at least $45 G's.

Just my 2 cents -

Dave B.

BTW - I never saw a '61 Cat or Ventura bucket seat car until the late '80's after the restoration hobby started

[Dick Boneske]

Judging from the comments, if this car was stored since 1961 and kept EXACTLY as it left the factory, some of you would be criticizing it. It's a NICE '61 Catalina. Better, more accurate restorations are not often seen. If any of you had this car for sale, wouldn't you expect bidders to give you a little slack?

Regarding the comments on the engine detailing--Tripower plating, engine painting, and hose clamps---how much would it take to correct these "faults" if you bought the car?

The only thing not "correct" on the Tripower is the gold fillister head screws securing the tops of the carbs (should be black Parkerized) and mechanical vs. vacuum linkage. The color of plating on these carbs varies between gold and silver zinc, depending on date of manufacture, including on the NOS '61 carbs I have in the original boxes. No one on these boards can say for sure what color plating the accelerator rod, throttle levers, and choke plate would be.

The engine painting looks fine to me. Have you ever seen a '60's Pontiac engine painted as it came from the factory? There was overspray on the bellhousing and crankshaft pulleys. All the headbolts, intake, and timing cover bolts were painted AFTER the engine was assembled, so they were Pontiac blue.

The hose clamps could be changed to the correct "spring-type" in less than an hour.

As far as the 8 lug wheels go, they are detailed very well with correct center caps and trim rings. Very few people would know they are '63/'64 drums instead of '60-'62. In my opinion, they look a HECK of a lot better than poverty hub caps.