[george kujanski]

Here's a thought.......100% of newer cars since the late 90's use electronic ignitions..........just sayin'.....they seem to be working well...........

george

[Dragncar]

Here is a thought, Toyota used points triggered CD ignition for years. Worked very well.
Many times in life, simple is good.

[Formulajones]

That's a pretty broad statement George. Majority of newer stuff since the late 90's is also using coil on plug computer controlled gizmos. While I do like it, It's worlds away from what a guy with a classic car running a classic engine has to use if he wants to convert to electronic on a reasonable budget.

We are basically stuck with either nearly 50 year old HEI technology, with what seems to be problematic chinese made control modules and coils, or maybe a ready to run distributor from any number of vendors, or a conversion setup from Pertronix, again problematic, or just convert to a complete MSD setup.

The choices aren't spectacular and electronic stuff can be sketchy these days. Some are okay, some people have luck with some of it. You just roll the dice and hope for the best. Most of these guys don't even drive their classics 2000 miles a year anyway so I don't really see the point. They certainly aren't going to be testing this stuff from a durability/mileage standpoint so it probably doesn't matter all that much.

[george kujanski]

I don't disagree, my point is that most, if not all of us on this board, have newer vehicles and don't worry about the ignition electronics failing. I currently have 2 with HEI's and no worries. i like the idea of set and forget it, don't have to do periodic maintenance on it like I did back in the 60's. Timing always rock solid.

I frankly can't explain why some have multiple, repeated HEI failures, poor module design/manufacture? pickup coil? I had 1 failure over the years with a pickup coil on a '86 Van. that was it.

I did like the Delco V8 point design where the dwell can be adjusted with engine running.

George

[Formulajones]

Gotchya, I understand. On a newer vehicle ignition is probably the last thing I worry about leaving me stuck. There are so many electronic things on new cars these days just about anything simple can shut the car down or at the least put it in some form of limp mode. The nice thing is being able to hook up the laptop and pulling a code to tell you where the issue is.

We just got away from all that over the last decade or so. Really just preferred the simplicity and relatively inexpensive nature of driving an old car.

[Tom Vaught]

COP, (Coil on Plug) gave the OEMs the ability to change the basic configuration of the engine by not having a Distributor on EITHER end of the engine with V-Type engines.

With that capability you could add a supercharger, drive the belt from a front location, introduce the air into the Supercharger at a location in the back of the engine, design
intake manifolds that allowed internal inter-coolers in the intake, ............................
and more.

CNP (Coil Near Plug and COP Coil On Plug) ignitions are easier to service, more durable
as each coil sees less firing events.

But the old ignition systems seem to work fine even with the oil parts design.

They do NOT allow individual plug spark curves.

Tom V.

[george kujanski]

Interesting points (no pun intended) Tom.

george

[Dragncar]

I bet COP is worth a couple of pony,s.

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by Dragncar

I bet COP is worth a couple of pony,s.

It is when you can tune timing per cylinder

[Charlie Brengun]

Originally Posted by george kujanski

Here's a thought.......100% of newer cars since the late 90's use electronic ignitions..........just sayin'.....they seem to be working well...........

george

You have obviously never owned an Alfa Romeo

[Charlie Brengun]

For what I am trying to do though which is have this car as a reliable weekend toy that I drive maybe 2500 miles a year if that. I sort of think a good quality points distributor, perhaps combined with a MSD box best matches what I am looking for.
I've removed the electric fan and put a simple mechanical clutch fan back in, will remove external electric fuel pump and put a mechanical back in and I want keep it a carb on there instead of going EFI.. so a points type distributor sounds ok enough to me.

[i82much]

i have MSD ready to run distributors with programmable 6AL2 boxes on my pontiac and a 396 chevy. Expensive and I haven't used the programmable features of the 6AL2 yet. But I like the easy adjustments on the curve of the MSD distributor with the colored bushings, and I haven't had any problems yet. The ready to run setup gives you a fallback if the box fails because you can just rewire in a pinch to rely on the internal ready to run module.

My only complaint is that I wish the ready to run came with an adjustable vacuum can with both the internal adjustment (where you put an allen wrench in the vacuum port) for advance rate and the total vacuum advance limiter (the external mechanical cam thing you see on some vacuum canisters). Then you'd really be able to dial in everything for a street car. Not sure why they just slapped a non-adjustable vacuum canister on there.

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by i82much

i have MSD ready to run distributors with programmable 6AL2 boxes on my pontiac and a 396 chevy. Expensive and I haven't used the programmable features of the 6AL2 yet. But I like the easy adjustments on the curve of the MSD distributor with the colored bushings, and I haven't had any problems yet. The ready to run setup gives you a fallback if the box fails because you can just rewire in a pinch to rely on the internal ready to run module.

My only complaint is that I wish the ready to run came with an adjustable vacuum can with both the internal adjustment (where you put an allen wrench in the vacuum port) for advance rate and the total vacuum advance limiter (the external mechanical cam thing you see on some vacuum canisters). Then you'd really be able to dial in everything for a street car. Not sure why they just slapped a non-adjustable vacuum canister on there.

I always swap them out for an adjustable unit. Easy to do. They usually come with a B26 can which works pretty well in most applications but I prefer to replace them with the adjustable cans and modify the adjustable units to taylor them specifically for certain combinations and work well at higher elevations.

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by Charlie Brengun

For what I am trying to do though which is have this car as a reliable weekend toy that I drive maybe 2500 miles a year if that. I sort of think a good quality points distributor, perhaps combined with a MSD box best matches what I am looking for.
I've removed the electric fan and put a simple mechanical clutch fan back in, will remove external electric fuel pump and put a mechanical back in and I want keep it a carb on there instead of going EFI.. so a points type distributor sounds ok enough to me.

That's a solid plan Charlie. Both of our dailys use points, mechanical fuel pumps, carbs, and one is triggering an MSD box.

They both have racked up over 50k miles over the last 5-6 years and have been absolutely flawless. I trust them more than any new car but what I like best is if something ever quits, it's a pretty short list of things to check

[i82much]

Originally Posted by Formulajones

I always swap them out for an adjustable unit. Easy to do. They usually come with a B26 can which works pretty well in most applications but I prefer to replace them with the adjustable cans and modify the adjustable units to taylor them specifically for certain combinations and work well at higher elevations.

i always buy stuff, get really excited, slap it on, drive around all happy for a day or two, and then forget about it for years until i eventually realize all this other stuff i should have done right when i first slapped it on.

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by i82much

i always buy stuff, get really excited, slap it on, drive around all happy for a day or two, and then forget about it for years until i eventually realize all this other stuff i should have done right when i first slapped it on.

I've done the same so I know what you mean. Get it up and going and say to yourself, "oh I'll revisit that later, it's okay for now" Then years go by lol

[george kujanski]

Originally Posted by Charlie Brengun

You have obviously never owned an Alfa Romeo

Or anything with a Lucas electrical system

george

[Tom Vaught]

Originally Posted by Formulajones

I always swap them out for an adjustable unit. Easy to do. They usually come with a B26 can which works pretty well in most applications but I prefer to replace them with the adjustable cans and modify the adjustable units to taylor them specifically for certain combinations and work well at higher elevations.

Got a Part Number/ Source for the adjustable units?

Tom V.

[Formulajones]

I generally use the Crane units. I would imagine the Accel cans are the same thing.
These probably aren't the best prices or best source out there but gives an idea. Usually the MSD small body distributors will use the points style cans.




https://us.amazon.com/Crane-Cams-996.../dp/B000CIO2KY

https://us.amazon.com/ACCEL-ACC-3103...0062YHRO&psc=1

[geeteeohguy]

Originally Posted by Tom Vaught

COP, (Coil on Plug) gave the OEMs the ability to change the basic configuration of the engine by not having a Distributor on EITHER end of the engine with V-Type engines.

With that capability you could add a supercharger, drive the belt from a front location, introduce the air into the Supercharger at a location in the back of the engine, design
intake manifolds that allowed internal inter-coolers in the intake, ............................
and more.

CNP (Coil Near Plug and COP Coil On Plug) ignitions are easier to service, more durable
as each coil sees less firing events.

But the old ignition systems seem to work fine even with the oil parts design.

They do NOT allow individual plug spark curves.

Tom V.

My 107 year-old Ford had coil-on-plug ignition and it worked flawlessly. I had the coils rebuilt and did the mag myself. The guys broken down on the tours were the ones that had 'upgraded' to electronic ignition using a distributor (True Fire). What's old is new again. Also, Electronic ignitions came into play largely due to emission laws....the car had to pass emissions for a set number of miles after it was placed in service, and points ignition will change over time and mileage due to rubbing block wear. Not so with HEI. The same reason Platinum spark plugs are used today.....they don't fire better than copper, but they don't erode as fast, and the new vehicles have to be emission compliant for a long time to get through warranty.