[i82much]

Originally Posted by Jay S

They are more like the Bullet’s and Ultradyne’s I mentioned. The magnum HR cams normally can get by with less controlled lifter bleed rates as long as the lift is less than .6”. A lifter with a better controlled bleed rate are probably going to perform better working against a lot of lift with big rocker ratios when you get close to or above .6” though, the more expensive lifter with the better controlled bleed rate is not a corner I would want to cut at that point.

ok thanks!

[Jay S]

Originally Posted by PAUL K

Using round numbers, the Hy-lift S lifter is their closest tolerance hydraulic lifter and sells for $300. You can buy a set of quality BAM lifters with an excellent bearing and wheel package for $600. Now if one casts a lifter body, that should be able to be done for less than $200. One uses the machining and parts from from the S lifter (less than $300) and installs the BAM wheel and bearing package for $400 ($600 BAM cost minus the $200 for the HR body) how are we coming up with a $1500 set of lifters?.... That still have issues.

Also why is 20w50 oil doable with the tight tolerance S lifters but when you stick a wheel on the bottom of lifter all of the sudden the metering goes haywire with the thicker oil. Unless your having an issue with the thinner oil, then the thicker oil is acceptable.


And to go one step further a set of $179 HR Melling replacement lifters function perfectly ...... And folks are bent out of shapes because our aluminum heads cost more than other brands.

I am a mechanical cams guy. There are a bunch of things that don’t add up to me with hydrualics. LOL

I have only seen Hylift recommend 10W30
oil on any kind of “S” slow bleed lifter. I have only seen “S” lifters in a flat tappet for a Mopar and possibly a Chevy. Maybe you are possible referring to the “R” lifter that can uses 20w50 and works well?

I think when HLJ was charging $1500 they were testing out the how much consumers were will to pay after they got blind sided by their lifter core supplier shutting down and their new supplier was a lot more money. Plus they were way behind and couldn’t meet supply anyway. So they didn’t really loose much by charging $1500 because at the time they didn’t appear to have any lifters to sell. They have since came down to $900 ish. Still very pricey.

Only my opinion, but I don’t think a cheap set of lifters will really have much of a different service life than the higher end lifters if they function as they should. That is kind of the problem though because with some of these profiles they don’t function as they should. Some of the lifters with pin oiling might be better for some things, but OEM’s haven’t went that direction yet. Seems like pin oiling on HR’s might be trying to solve a problem that isn’t there?

[Jay S]

Back when Morel was developing their HR lifter back in the early 2000s they did a spintron test to simulate 100K miles with a .650” lift cam. Now it seems like people are afraid to drive the car across the yard with them. Makes you wonder what happened between now and then.

[i82much]

Originally Posted by Jay S

Back when Morel was developing their HR lifter back in the early 2000s they did a spintron test to simulate 100K miles with a .650” lift cam. Now it seems like people are afraid to drive the car across the yard with them. Makes you wonder what happened between now and then.

i think people get too freaked out about a little noise. these cars weren't that dang quiet when new, they are as heck ain't gonna be quiet with headers, aluminum intake and heads, and .600 lift cams!!

[Jay S]

Originally Posted by i82much

i think people get too freaked out about a little noise. these cars weren't that dang quiet when new, they are as heck ain't gonna be quiet with headers, aluminum intake and heads, and .600 lift cams!!

A couple years ago took my TA out on a cold winter night, that was really damp and sound traveled from everywhere. Man it was like driving a horror movie car that was possessed!

[PAUL K]

Hy-lift "S" lifter is their top shelf lifter with close tolerance bleed down rates. It's their only performance quiet lifter..... They won't make them for our Pontiacs.

R lifter is considered a quick bleed lifter with consistent bleed rates. Noise is considered normal when used with performance valve springs and quick ramps.

951 is only recommended for use with stock/factory valve spring pressures due to uncontrolled bleed rates that can cause individual noisy lifters when use with fast ramp cams and stiff springs.

But supposedly the got their $1500 HR lifters right.

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by PAUL K

Okay maybe my question is too complicated or no one knows the answer.

How bout this:

When the $800 lifters were the most expensive they had to be the best. What changed with the $800 lifters when the $1200 lifters came to market?


When the $1200 lifters became $1500 lifters in what way did they get $300 better than the $1200 lifters? Also would the $1200 lifters become obsolete (and not as good) with the $1500 lifters on the market?


Also if you had a set of $450 lifters functioning perfectly would those lifters be good or bad?

Bidenomics lol

[PAUL K]

Originally Posted by i82much

i think people get too freaked out about a little noise. these cars weren't that dang quiet when new, they are as heck ain't gonna be quiet with headers, aluminum intake and heads, and .600 lift cams!!

I'm not sure if I'm freaked out. I'd just like a set of $300 lifters work as well as my old $59 lifters. Not a big fan of flat cams and collapsed pushrod cups. We should have the technology to (re) build them and make them better than they were before. Better, stronger, faster and quieter

[PAUL K]

Originally Posted by Formulajones

Bidenomics lol

Yeah I'm thinking we need an "opportunity economy" to fix all this.

[Formulajones]

As far as oil goes, 20-50 has worked perfectly fine for me for decades with flat tappets and roller lifters, regardless of who's name is on it or whether it has a wheel on the bottom or not. But I use a synthetic that has a way better pour rating than most other 20-50's on the market and as good as many 10-30's so the blanket statement these cam manufactures make of using certain viscosity oils for certain lifters really should be explained a little better to the public because there are too many variables with oils.

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by PAUL K

I'm not sure if I'm freaked out. I'd just like a set of $300 lifters work as well as my old $59 lifters. Not a big fan of flat cams and collapsed pushrod cups. We should have the technology to (re) build them and make them better than they were before. Better, stronger, faster and quieter

Boy so would I. It's disappointing the same lifters I bought 10 years ago, or even just 5 years ago for $500, are now over a thousand. Nothing has really changed with the lifter either.

[lust4speed]

As far as price and quality, I was told that the lower priced lifters like the Morel and their re-brands were cast body while the top quality Comp, Crower, Johnson, and Hylift Johnson had tool steel bodies. The reason to spend more money was that the cast body lifters were not up to the task of high RPM usage and were more for drivers that were never punished. I do see the adds for high end stuff bragging about tool steel.

[Jay S]

Originally Posted by lust4speed

As far as price and quality, I was told that the lower priced lifters like the Morel and their re-brands were cast body while the top quality Comp, Crower, Johnson, and Hylift Johnson had tool steel bodies. The reason to spend more money was that the cast body lifters were not up to the task of high RPM usage and were more for drivers that were never punished. I do see the adds for high end stuff bragging about tool steel.

I”ll go out on a limb here. But I think that is actually backwards to what I know about lifters. Morel is actually the one that has some very high end short travel HR lifters with billet lifter bodies, just not for Pontiac’s. Comp, Hylift, Johnson’s and the regular morels are all a cold formed steel alloy, none of them are billet steel. Morel has a floating axle (after 2015), they may actually be the leader on the axles assembly as far a durability. It seems like it is more machining for tight bleed rates and check valve design are where they fall short.

[tom s]

Pontiacs have been running SBC roller lifters for 50 years or more.If someone had a in at Morel you might be able to get them to make a set of the tool steel lifters and just changing the link bars?Tom

[Schurkey]

Originally Posted by 64speed

Engine Masters did a show on the 4/7 swap. Advantages were nonexistent in their application.

Nonexistent? Or just "sloppy and incomplete test procedure" mainly intended to get clicks and not promote REAL knowledge, and so they didn't find--or even look for--all the potential advantages?

The 4/7 swap moves the heat load of the 5/7 cylinder pairing from the rear of the block (hottest part) to the front of the block (coolest part--right next to the water pump).

A proper 4/7 & 2/3 swap like the LS firing order, removes load from the overloaded #4 main bearing, and puts it on #2 which would otherwise be under-loaded. In fact, that was why the LS engine uses that firing order--to even-out main bearing loading.

Originally Posted by Iggy

Where would one look to having a cam nitrited?

When it was me, on an Olds 455, I had Lunati take care of it. Way back then, I think it was an additional $110. It about doubled the cost of a flat-tappet cam. No doubt it's far more, now. Thanks, F. Joe Biden.

[Jay S]

Originally Posted by tom s

Pontiacs have been running SBC roller lifters for 50 years or more.If someone had a in at Morel you might be able to get them to make a set of the tool steel lifters and just changing the link bars?Tom

Morel could definetly do that, certainly not a cheap option. But they rebox their lifters for a lot of companies, would think it would not take much for a company to get that done. Morels billet bodies are easy to spot, they have open bodies around the wheels. They are rated for over 500 lbs springs pressure and 7K RPMs, they are the direct competitors for the Isky HPx made by Johnson.

[ponchjoe]

Looks like I need to change the title of this thread to a lifter discussion or unsubscribe, You guys are blowing me up here LOL

[PAUL K]

Originally Posted by ponchjoe

Looks like I need to change the title of this thread to a lifter discussion or unsubscribe, You guys are blowing me up here LOL

Sorry someone had to address the misinformation/disinformation and cheap fakes

Seasons Greetings to you and your family!

[ponchjoe]

Originally Posted by PAUL K

Sorry someone had to address the misinformation/disinformation and cheap fakes

Seasons Greetings to you and your family!

Yea, there’s a lot of misinformation out there on pretty much everything Paul. All you can do is read/research and try.

Merry Christmas to you and yours as well.

[Jay S]

Originally Posted by ponchjoe

Yea, there’s a lot of misinformation out there on pretty much everything Paul. All you can do is read/research and try.

Merry Christmas to you and yours as well.

You all have a Merry Christmas!

You can always call or text me if you find yourself in a corner with a question. I enjoy power terrain stuff.. If I don’t know the answer I may at least know someone that does.