[gto4evr]

Hello,

hoping someone can school me about the differences in the number of teeth on a ring gear. I'm currently trying to buy a replacement flywheel and clutch setup for my 69 GTO with stock 400.

I read through a bunch of different forum posts saying that LUK setups were decent. I came across an auction on ebay selling the clutch and flywheel as a set and though the title says it's for chevy, the fitment says it fits pontiac. The flywheel shows it has 168 teeth. I count 166 on mine and from some internet chasing, see that 166 is correct for Pontiac. what I'm not understanding is if this actually matters because I don't get why a replacement bendix for the starter is the same part number for basically everything GM from the 60's to the 80's -- I'd think that a change in the number of teeth on a ring gear should change the matching teeth in a starter but apparently not? Can I use this "chevy" 168 toothed ring on the flywheel in my pontiac?

I went to Summit racing and see the LUK has two different flywheels, LFW131 with 153 teeth, LFW101 with 168 teeth. Then there's a summit racing flywheel SUM-700090 at double the price but with 166 teeth. also this one says nodular iron instead of steel.

This is a bone stock car that barely gets 100 miles a year, so I'm not after trying to build something crazy with those $1500 flywheels that come up at summit either, so right now, I'm leaning towards the SUM flywheel because I just can't wrap my head around the difference in number of ring gear teeth and the fact the starter bendix doesn't change between them. (and also not interested in sweating my old ring gear off and swapping it since my gear is damaged and missing a tooth so that's not part of this equation) Any info is greatly appreciated here!

Thanks,
Dennis

[25stevem]

The clutch from that action may fit a Pontiac, but the flywheel will certainly not bolt up right to the crank.

[MatthewKlein]

Originally Posted by gto4evr

Hello,

hoping someone can school me about the differences in the number of teeth on a ring gear. I'm currently trying to buy a replacement flywheel and clutch setup for my 69 GTO with stock 400.

I read through a bunch of different forum posts saying that LUK setups were decent. I came across an auction on ebay selling the clutch and flywheel as a set and though the title says it's for chevy, the fitment says it fits pontiac. The flywheel shows it has 168 teeth. I count 166 on mine and from some internet chasing, see that 166 is correct for Pontiac. what I'm not understanding is if this actually matters because I don't get why a replacement bendix for the starter is the same part number for basically everything GM from the 60's to the 80's -- I'd think that a change in the number of teeth on a ring gear should change the matching teeth in a starter but apparently not? Can I use this "chevy" 168 toothed ring on the flywheel in my pontiac?

I went to Summit racing and see the LUK has two different flywheels, LFW131 with 153 teeth, LFW101 with 168 teeth. Then there's a summit racing flywheel SUM-700090 at double the price but with 166 teeth. also this one says nodular iron instead of steel.

This is a bone stock car that barely gets 100 miles a year, so I'm not after trying to build something crazy with those $1500 flywheels that come up at summit either, so right now, I'm leaning towards the SUM flywheel because I just can't wrap my head around the difference in number of ring gear teeth and the fact the starter bendix doesn't change between them. (and also not interested in sweating my old ring gear off and swapping it since my gear is damaged and missing a tooth so that's not part of this equation) Any info is greatly appreciated here!

Thanks,
Dennis

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I used this flywheel on my 455

[MatthewKlein]

Flywheel teeth and bendix teeth are generally the same size. The number of flywheel teeth changes with the outside diameter of the flywheel itself. Too large diameter or too small will no longer line up with the starter. The starter will miss all together or be too close to the ring gear.

[tom s]

you need a 166 flywheel.MAKE sure what block it will be used on.A bellhousing mounted starter takes a diff wheel than a block mounted starter.Same amount of teeth but ring gear location is diff.tom

[gto4evr]

thanks guys, never popped into my mind about the circumference change making the gears still mesh fine between the starter and ring with a different number of teeth.

Tom, thanks for the pointer on the bell vs block mount. I don't see any reference to that on the summit flywheel.

that amazon link for $300 says billet steel. The SUM-700090 from summit says nodular iron at $169

I also see parts place on ebay for $349 and they're talking about it being "early style". I've got a 73 long block under 69 everything else for the motor. so what does that mean for me?

what should I really be looking for here for material? I saw someone talking about an aluminum flywheel somewhere in my forum searches too.

I'm on a budget here and again, this car rarely gets put through any serious stress, basically a dump the clutch to impress the kiddies once in awhile but for the most part granny drives to and from shows. The current clutch (with a freshly turned flywheel at the time of the car build) only has 4000 miles on it. it started chattering on me probably 2000 miles ago but was always manageable by careful take offs with a light slip and a wee bit higher of an acceleration but last time I drove it, I know it's slipping since I could gun the gas in 4th gear, hear the motor rev up and there wasn't an accompanying rise in mph while the tach would rev up so I know it's slipping now.

I haven't torn it down yet but I'm fully expecting to see the flywheel scorched with heat cracks in it just like it had before I had it turned all those years ago so I just want to go with a new flywheel.

[tom s]

61-64 big car will be bellhousing mounted.64 Tempest and later engine will be block mounted.FYI,ALL 64 block were drilled for block mounted.You just have to order a wheel to the year of the block and the bellhousing application.If racing at all for sure a billet wheel,strictly street its your call.Tom

[Schurkey]

Originally Posted by gto4evr

I came across an auction on ebay selling the clutch and flywheel as a set and though the title says it's for chevy, the fitment says it fits pontiac. The flywheel shows it has 168 teeth. I count 166 on mine and from some internet chasing, see that 166 is correct for Pontiac.

It's correct for Pontiac CARS that have Chevy-design ENGINES. God bless GM for mixing-and-matching engines to vehicles, so you have to order engine parts by using the VIN number.

That flywheel is for Chevy engines, not Pontiac engines.

[Scarebird]

I would wait till you pull the flywheel off first to verify exactly what you have, just in case you have a small pilot crank (later 400's).

Also, Hayes flywheels are (or were) no bueno - the ring gear is in the wrong place.

[242177P]

Originally Posted by Schurkey

That flywheel is for Chevy engines, not Pontiac engines.

X2. Chevy has 153 and 168 flywheels, and two different starters (with different bolt patterns) to go with them.

[wbnapier]

Originally Posted by Scarebird

I would wait till you pull the flywheel off first to verify exactly what you have, just in case you have a small pilot crank (later 400's).

Also, Hayes flywheels are (or were) no bueno - the ring gear is in the wrong place.

I have a Hayes flywheel.

I had trouble getting the starter aligned, but now it seems OK, minor damage to some teeth. I have had the ring gear replaced once before. PITA.

[tom s]

I have a Hays billet wheel in my 69 bird with no issue.It has been on at least 4 diff engines since I have owned it.I use a IMI mini starter.FWIW,Tom

[Scarebird]

How old is it Tom?

There have been offset issues with them. Perhaps older ones do not have this issue?

https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...29&postcount=9

[MatthewKlein]

Originally Posted by wbnapier

I have had the ring gear replaced once before. PITA.

My strategy for replacing a ring gear is to set the flywheel face down on blocks of wood. Use a punch to drive the old gear off.

To install place face up. Lay the ring gear over the flywheel and evenly heat it with a torch. When the temp is correct It should fall on. Then a few taps to ensure it's seated. Let it air cool.

[tom s]

I would say at least 10 year old,while I was at McLeod getting my clutch rebuilt they surfaced it for me,back in the car with a old engine,no issue.Tom