GTO Sales Flop........Detroit News, May 24,04 - PY Online Forums

glenn bayard · #1 05-31-2004, 04:44 PM

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Dull Styling, Sale Hobble With GTO

DETROIT - The Pontiac GTO, a pet project of General Motors product czar Robert Lutz, is off to a slow start.

Dealers say the GTO - touted as a halo car for Pontiac - suffers from bland styling, a high sticker price and no incentives.

"The car is more conservative looking than today's customer expects," says dealer Hugh Fiore, owner of Harbor Motors in Old Saybrook, Conn.

So far this year, Pontiac has sold just 2,451 units. Discounting seasonal differences, that amounts to an annualized rate of 7,300 units - well below Pontiac's 16,000-unit target. GM has a 168-day supply of GTOs, well above the 60-day supply that is considered ideal. A December launch slowed sales of the Australian-built car, says Pontiac spokesman Jim Hopson. "Winter probably isn't the best time to launch a rear-wheel-drive vehicle," he says. "However, we're already beginning to see sales pick up with the nice weather."

Pontiac sold 719 GTOs in March and 650 in April.

GM launched an advertising campaign for the GTO in November. Pontiac hopes the USA Network cable TV movie The Last Ride will help spread the word. The movie features the GTO.

Lutz, vice chairman for product development, pushed the Australian car to the United States with only minor changes.

GM engineers reworked the Holden Monaro, giving it left-hand drive and a Pontiac front end. The V-8 received 48 more horsepower, for a total of 350 hp. The exterior received a new front fascia and a spoiler.

Lutz praised the car's "brawny, muscular stance." But many enthusiasts say the reborn GTO lacks the in-your-face styling of the original muscle car, fondly nicknamed the Goat.

Not enough pizazz

"When you come back with a name like GTO, you need something more," says one Detroit area sales manager who declined to be named.

Last week at a press event in Detroit, Kip Wasenko, director of design for GM's performance division, said, "You heard me talking about heritage. That's probably one of the things the GTO could probably use a little more of. But other people find it quiet and reserved because not everyone wants in-your-face, look-at-me kind of style."

glenn bayard · #2 05-31-2004, 04:44 PM

Senior Member

Group: Global Moderator
Posts: 132
Member No.: 430
Joined: 24-July 03
Location:

Dull Styling, Sale Hobble With GTO

DETROIT - The Pontiac GTO, a pet project of General Motors product czar Robert Lutz, is off to a slow start.

Dealers say the GTO - touted as a halo car for Pontiac - suffers from bland styling, a high sticker price and no incentives.

"The car is more conservative looking than today's customer expects," says dealer Hugh Fiore, owner of Harbor Motors in Old Saybrook, Conn.

So far this year, Pontiac has sold just 2,451 units. Discounting seasonal differences, that amounts to an annualized rate of 7,300 units - well below Pontiac's 16,000-unit target. GM has a 168-day supply of GTOs, well above the 60-day supply that is considered ideal. A December launch slowed sales of the Australian-built car, says Pontiac spokesman Jim Hopson. "Winter probably isn't the best time to launch a rear-wheel-drive vehicle," he says. "However, we're already beginning to see sales pick up with the nice weather."

Pontiac sold 719 GTOs in March and 650 in April.

GM launched an advertising campaign for the GTO in November. Pontiac hopes the USA Network cable TV movie The Last Ride will help spread the word. The movie features the GTO.

Lutz, vice chairman for product development, pushed the Australian car to the United States with only minor changes.

GM engineers reworked the Holden Monaro, giving it left-hand drive and a Pontiac front end. The V-8 received 48 more horsepower, for a total of 350 hp. The exterior received a new front fascia and a spoiler.

Lutz praised the car's "brawny, muscular stance." But many enthusiasts say the reborn GTO lacks the in-your-face styling of the original muscle car, fondly nicknamed the Goat.

Not enough pizazz

"When you come back with a name like GTO, you need something more," says one Detroit area sales manager who declined to be named.

Last week at a press event in Detroit, Kip Wasenko, director of design for GM's performance division, said, "You heard me talking about heritage. That's probably one of the things the GTO could probably use a little more of. But other people find it quiet and reserved because not everyone wants in-your-face, look-at-me kind of style."

Goat luver · #3 05-31-2004, 06:55 PM

Jeez Mr Bayard, you just don't give up do you?
I guess I am the only one that is rising to the bait today.
Why do you persist in downing the 2004 goat?
If you don't like it, don't buy it!
FYI there are just as many good news articles as there are bad. It would seem that the the non-owners take pleasure in seeking out the bad press and "re-publicizing" it.
Get a life ... the owners of the 2004 GTO are not interested in your cheap shots!
Go and buy the 2005 Stang.... the negative press will shoot that down too.
Remember: Friends don't let friends drive Fords!

Nickv · #4 05-31-2004, 08:06 PM

He has posted on about every ls1 site I can think of. What is your point Glenn? Frankly as and owner of the 04 GTO I could car less about it's sales. If it flops, so be it. It will make my 04 GTO that much more of a collectible now wouldn't it?

Goat luver · #5 05-31-2004, 08:35 PM

Glenn Bayard... you are a dick!

I bet you drive a Pinto!

glenn bayard · #6 06-01-2004, 12:42 AM

Ozzie............to call someone a dick because they share their genuine thoughts that conflicts with an owner trying to justify their purchase seems very juvinille. I both praised the GTO while balancing it with several very obvious shortcomings. I am glad you are pleased with your purchase, truly.

My 'agenda' was to get Pontiac/GM to listen to the voice of the buying public............they speak loudest with thier wallet, rejecting unattractive, overpriced, underspec'd vehicles..........they call it sales and this is exactly what has occured in the marketplace. Just look at my other post 'GTO Sales Failure'.........I think you will see a common theme to my objective opinion as expressed by thousands of potential car buyers that chose the competion.

For your general information, I own a fabulous BMW 330 Coupe, an SUV and 2 collectibles........so pls don't get personal with me or anyone else that disagrees with you. Oh, if Pontiac gets their act together/surprises the hell out of me and eveyone else, I'm buying the 05 GTO............have a good day.

PS To the person claiming that I did apparently something awful because I posted the same obvective review on other posts..............are you then guilty of the same 'crime' because you made the same reply to me (do you see how ridiculous your argument is, I suppose not).Oh, no rebutal necessary,my purpose has been served. Take care.

svede1212 · #7 06-01-2004, 06:13 AM

he has a "fabulous BMW". i'm glad he doesn't have a GTO and hope he doesn't get one. i think glenn that you'll find the people who connect with this car don't "connect" with you. have a nice day :~)

Bunz53 · #8 06-01-2004, 02:15 PM

Jees Loius fellas, Relax. It's just a stupid car. This is why I don't talk to my father in law about cars. He's a die hard Ford guy, and anything else is a POS to him. My old man once told me "never love something that can't love you back" That is what a car is. It can't love you back. Nothing wrong with having an opinion, but we're not talking about people's mothers here. Drink a beer or whatever you do to relax, and appreciate the fact that we get to discuss things that we care about.

HUMBLER · #9 06-02-2004, 06:33 AM

I tried that argument before on a couple posts, it doesn't work.

Nickv · #10 06-02-2004, 08:27 AM

I think it's pretty damn funny that the GTO is already being written off. Hilarious.. 05 GTO redesigned. 06 GTO are already in clay form. I can't believe how some want this car to badly fail. Shame on these so called car guys.

Howie · #11 06-02-2004, 09:54 AM

I guess they're happy driving v-6 FWD cars and SUV's!!

ChiefIronHorse · #12 06-02-2004, 01:33 PM

glenn bayard,

You strike me as the kind of person that follows the masses. Case in point... this thread. Nothing wrong with being a follower. Maybe you were a follower instead of a leader as a child. As the saying goes, if your friends jumped off a bridge, would you? I'm betting dollar to donuts that you would. IMO most of the 2004 GTO owners follow the beat of a different drum. They're not like that bazillion sheep that have to have the same vehicle as everyone else (aaaa chewww mustang wwww). Like me for instance. I didn't run out a buy a vehicle just because everyone else is buying it. I bought a GTO because I wanted to own one. It's apparent that you're hung up on looks instead of the overall picture. You need to have the "hey look at me everybody" looks of a vehicle. Again, theres nothing wrong with that. But I'll let you on a little secret glen. The GTO already does that. Let don't get confused here glen. I'm not being a hipocrite here. I know I stated that I didn't buy the vehicle because it would be popular. It so happens that the vehicle that I wanted ended up being a head turner. And I would still have the GTO if it wasn't a head turner. So do yourself a favor and go out and get yourself a 2005 mustang. Those will be a head turner. At least until you start seeing them on every street light.

By the way glen, do you really think one opinion of a person will change the opinion of others. Or GM for that matter. I assure you that for every GTO hater out there, there are 3 that like the GTO. Of course I'm not saying that the GTO is perfect. EVERY vehicle out there has it's flaws. But answer me this glen, how many vehicles can you get brand new that cost less then $40,000, RWD, V8 with approximately 350 horsepower AND can seat 4 people comfortable? I'll wait for your answer but I won't hold my breath. BAAAA BAAAAA for now glen.

Goathead · #13 06-02-2004, 02:20 PM

I assure you that for every GTO hater out there, there are 3 that like the GTO

Well, good theory, but the #'s seem to indicate the exact opposite...

ChiefIronHorse · #14 06-02-2004, 04:58 PM

And what #'s are you refering too? I'm sure you've been on the street corners taking a poll on the GTO.

GTO 4MA · #15 06-02-2004, 07:08 PM

Got a call from PMD today (no kidding)asking how I liked my '04 Yellow Jacket and how PMD could improve future models.

I responded that I had some real issues with the car - it had way more acceleration than I expected, cornered like it was on rails, solid as a rock,get all kinds of "cool car babe" from onlookers, and too many people back down at traffic lights - as far as improvements go, hood scoops, maybe a judge option with LS2, although the LS1 version in the current GTO has the latest and greatest heads and throttle body and is probably only 20 HP differential with the LS-6.

As far as your BMW is concerned Mr. Bayard, we defeated the Germans in 1945 and PMD defeated them in 2004.

Maindrian Pace · #16 06-02-2004, 09:00 PM

This is a great car and I think it will sell really well if they just make it look somewhat like a performance car. And by performance car I don't mean Cavalier Z24 or Grand Am GT.

455HOGT37 · #17 06-02-2004, 10:47 PM

Glenn,

Your attempt at a rational discussion of this car will not be tolerated if you can not be completely positive in your review. Any detail that you can find that might prevent you from purchasing this "wonder from down under" is insignificant and proves you are stupid. Lutz has given you the car he says you want, so who the hell do you think you are to ask questions?

For the record, I think your comments on the car are right on the money. It is no wonder that I also chose not to return the salesmans calls after my test drive.

I am happy you owners love your new toys, but it is hardly a surprise... How many of you would admit you spent too much money on a car you hate anyway? The latest T-bird owners are still happy with their cars too, I'll bet.

There might be one or two of you lovers out there with some class, but many of you are simply pathetic. You have a total inability to discuss the mere possibility that this thing has some shortcomings. So, in order not to damage you frail egos: "Bob Lutz is a god, and the Holden is the finest automotive creation of all time and forevermore."

Do you feel beter now?

glenn bayard · #18 06-02-2004, 10:49 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by GTO 4MA:
Got a call from PMD today (no kidding)asking how I liked my '04 Yellow Jacket and how PMD could improve future models.

I responded that I had some real issues with the car - it had way more acceleration than I expected, cornered like it was on rails, solid as a rock,get all kinds of "cool car babe" from onlookers, and too many people back down at traffic lights - as far as improvements go, hood scoops, maybe a judge option with LS2, although the LS1 version in the current GTO has the latest and greatest heads and throttle body and is probably only 20 HP differential with the LS-6.

As far as your BMW is concerned Mr. Bayard, we defeated the Germans in 1945 and PMD defeated them in 2004. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

glenn bayard · #19 06-02-2004, 10:55 PM

It's great that Pontiac is interested in consumer feed back. My concern, and should be a concern for Pontiac, is how many people see and drive the GTO at the dealership, then head off to buy a Infiniti G35 Coupe or Mazda RS8.........to be more exact, about 4 times buy the competion, from dealers that are far far fewer than Pontiac.........that's the true market reply. I WILL buy a 05 GTO if the much needed changes are made, as I suggested,if not I will join everyone else in rejecting the GTO. Sadly, any responsible car company can correct the few but significant shortcomings of this car. I am glad you are a happy and proud owner, nothing at all personal. Thanks.<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by GTO 4MA:
Got a call from PMD today (no kidding)asking how I liked my '04 Yellow Jacket and how PMD could improve future models.

I responded that I had some real issues with the car - it had way more acceleration than I expected, cornered like it was on rails, solid as a rock,get all kinds of "cool car babe" from onlookers, and too many people back down at traffic lights - as far as improvements go, hood scoops, maybe a judge option with LS2, although the LS1 version in the current GTO has the latest and greatest heads and throttle body and is probably only 20 HP differential with the LS-6.

As far as your BMW is concerned Mr. Bayard, we defeated the Germans in 1945 and PMD defeated them in 2004. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

HUMBLER · #20 06-03-2004, 07:39 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by 455HOGT37:
Glenn,

Your attempt at a rational discussion of this car will not be tolerated if you can not be completely positive in your review. Any detail that you can find that might prevent you from purchasing this "wonder from down under" is insignificant and proves you are stupid. Lutz has given you the car he says you want, so who the hell do you think you are to ask questions?

For the record, I think your comments on the car are right on the money. It is no wonder that I also chose not to return the salesmans calls after my test drive.

I am happy you owners love your new toys, but it is hardly a surprise... How many of you would admit you spent too much money on a car you hate anyway? The latest T-bird owners are still happy with their cars too, I'll bet.

There might be one or two of you lovers out there with some class, but many of you are simply pathetic. You have a total inability to discuss the mere possibility that this thing has some shortcomings. So, in order not to damage you frail egos: "Bob Lutz is a god, and the Holden is the finest automotive creation of all time and forevermore."

Do you feel beter now? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I may have missed earlier comments but what didn't you like about it after driving it?