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Old 01-18-2007, 06:34 PM
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Question 4 Bolt Block What is it?

I have a block, casting #481988, date code B191 that has four (4) bolt mains but there are "no" markings on the front of the block and it has not been cut.

I have been carrying this engine for years (1972) and just broke it down to find a light crank, nodular rods, ram air pistons and 4 bolt mains. Don't have a reference for casting numbers so I need help.

What is it? Thanks, Truman

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Old 01-18-2007, 06:39 PM
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That number appears on '71-'74 400CI. So a '71 (265-300HP) as per date code.

Any number on the crank?


Numbers can be found at www.wallaceracing.com or http://www.angelfire.com/fl4/pontiac...chineshop.html

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Old 01-18-2007, 06:57 PM
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May be a candidate for a 1970 RamAir Service Replacement block?
Production years cast number were grinded off and earlier years cast number were stamped at the grinded location and SR number were stamped close to were the VIN used to be....

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Old 01-18-2007, 07:12 PM
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Truman,

I sold a NOS Service Replacement block and recall reading that some didnt have SR stamped on front and not all had new VIN put back at dealer.

Reading some other posts I recall that some blocks didnt get stamped at all with VIN or block code. I think the ones I was reading about were on 69 model year (on production blocks) .

I know with two CA made 455s I have now, they stamped the block partial VIN off to the left under where the head edge would mount as you are facing the block.
They have a Z in block VIN number for Freemont, CA.

By chance did you look way up to the left? If it didnt have a block VIN/EUN at all it may be a SR that didnt get stamped when installed at dealer (?)


Last edited by JLHarper; 01-18-2007 at 07:53 PM.
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Old 01-18-2007, 07:53 PM
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I had a friend who worked at a Pontiac dealership as a mechanic from around 1966 to 1975.

He told me the parts counter kept one or two short block assemblies around for warranty purposes. He said most of the 455s in the early years were all 4-bolt main because there wasn't that big of a difference in price between the 2 and 4-bolt short block assemblies. These were SR blocks, and had the SR number stamped on the front. I believe these were usually short blocks or fitted blocks (no crank).

When a car came in and the short block was replaced, the mechanic was supposed to stamp the code and VIN in the block. I think he said they weren't supposed to stamp the number beneath the engine code because that was used to track engines built by the factory. He said it was hit or miss whether the person installing hte replacement block stamped any numbers.

My friend said anyone could order a new 4-bolt main 400 or 455 bare block. These had no number on the front, nor did they have the SR number.

He also told me that he installed a SD455 short block into a station wagon around 1974. He said an influential customer came in with a engine problem just before he was leaving on a trip. The only 455 short block they had was a SD455 short block that had been ordered by one of the mechanics who raced. They installed that block assembly and the guy ordered another one.

I don't know if it was true or he was exaggerating, but the guy had a bunch of neat hi-po parts. I picked up several tripowers, 428s, and a YE and XF 455 4-bolt main from him. He said the mechanics would try to snag any 4-bolt short block that was swapped out under warranty for later use by somebody who raced.

Mike

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Old 01-18-2007, 08:20 PM
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Smile Gentleman - Put on your Thinking Caps Please

I am beginning to believe that this is a 1970 (B191) Ram Air 4 block (SR) from engineering that has never had any info stamped on the front of the block. That being the case, what is it worth?

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Old 01-18-2007, 08:35 PM
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Back in the 80-90's, GM would send us notices of pending disc. part #'s.
I grabed the last 11 400 bare blocks for $75 ea!
Were the 557's. Had no letter codes or #'s on the front.
There were no X7's or any other HD castings. They were long gone.

Another note;
When i took over as parts manager in a Pontiac dealership(84), i found a listing for all the replacement part #'s for the 68 RAII engine in the old mgr's desk.

Just think if i was older and worked there during the 60-70's.
I'd be rich now

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Old 01-18-2007, 08:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hard-Timess
I am beginning to believe that this is a 1970 (B191) Ram Air 4 block (SR) from engineering that has never had any info stamped on the front of the block. That being the case, what is it worth?
Not sure, but i would think alot to someone who had an original car without the correct engine, and coul'nt find one with correct letter code. And if they did, the vin # would be wrong any how.
They could stamp it themselves, and no one would know the diff.

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Old 01-19-2007, 10:55 AM
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Worth at least a million!

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Old 01-19-2007, 11:32 AM
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Truman

Weren't you friends with Tom Nell and got special things from Engineering? If this block is one of those things; which I'm guessing it is since you don't have any stampings on the timing face, it could be something besides SR.

Most SR's have "SR" stamped if I'm not mistaken. Although you block is not the same casting as the 70 V's 481708, I'm curious if you would know the difference in the lifter valley between a regular block and the V?

I know this is a long shot, but thought I would throw it at you.

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Old 01-20-2007, 12:33 AM
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Thumbs up Thanks for everyone's input..

Steve, you are correct as to where this came from but the lifter galley is normal, no cross bracing.

As for "worth a million", I wish.... Guess I am going to sell this complete short block as a SR replacement for a 1970 RA4 car, date code B191..

Asking price of $5K - OBO Thanks gentlemen..

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Old 01-20-2007, 01:02 AM
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Truman, don't sell it. It should mean more to you than anyone else, once it's gone it will probably never return.

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Old 01-20-2007, 10:21 AM
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If you went down to Pontiac and bought a bare 4-bolt block brand new over the counter, it did not have a SR number or any number. They only got coded if you bought a complete motor.

Mike

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Old 01-20-2007, 11:16 AM
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Default I posted this in the other thread too.......

My 1970 400 SR block cast in 1971 have 2 bolt main caps, though itīs drilled for 4 bolt caps.
Therefore, not ALL 400 SR blocks got 4 bolt caps.

1971-72 455 H.O.īs also got 4 bolt main caps.
A 455 SR block with 4 bolt main caps and a 1973 casting date may very well replace one of those.

From 1971 MPC:

BLOCK ASSEMBLY, ENGINE CYLINDER.
Blocks are fitted with pistons, pins and rings.

70 All 400 exc. Ram Air part-#479877 1 $ 295.00 BLOCK

70 All Ram Air III part-#479878 1 $ 350.00 BLOCK (w/YZ or WS eng.)

70 All Ram Air IV part-#479879 1 $384.00 BLOCK (w/XP or WW eng.)

Based on prices for these SR blocks, i would say that itīs safe to sum up this as:

A 400 SR block for std applications got cast pistons and 2 bolt main caps.
A 400 SR block for RAIII applications got cast pistons and 4 bolt main caps.
A 400 SR block for RAIV applications got forged pistons an 4 bolt main caps.

A note, 1969 SR 400 Ram Air III or H.O blocks got 2 bolt main caps.

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Old 01-20-2007, 11:47 AM
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Truman

I'm curious how you got the block. Did you pick it up at engineering, shipped direct to you, or pick it up at your local dealership? And is it as is Tom built it for you, or did he just hook you up with the bare block?

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Old 01-20-2007, 08:17 PM
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Question How Did Part Come To Me?

Well, After Indy Nats in late 1971 when MotorWheel & Kenner Toy bought the SS/K 1972 455 HO 4spd car for me, Pontiac provided all the necessary engines/SD rods/transmissions/rear ends/etc and all of the product sponsors (Crane/GoodYear/Gasket/STP/Valvoline/Lunati/etc) provided everything else necessary to run a good program.

In the first shipment from Pontiac there were 6 complete assembled 455 HO engines, 6 rear ends, 6 transmissions, and considering that I would still be running the 68 Bird in Stock, there were a couple of 400s and sets of RA96 heads. I am probably forgetting something but that is how my 1972 season began.

When I received the 72 GTO and immediately began stripping it, my Dad went nuts, "when are you going to quit this kid ****", well Dad, I know you are still watching me and I haven't quit yet..

If someone could find my 72 GTO I would sure like that one back - it had less than a 100 miles on it. Last I heard it was in Iowa, but can't confirm that.

Thanks guys...

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Old 01-25-2007, 12:11 AM
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Question 1972 GTO HO 455 Ram Air 4spd

Anyone find my car???

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Old 01-25-2007, 06:47 PM
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Truman, was your car white?

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Old 01-25-2007, 09:07 PM
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[QUOTE=Hard-Timess]Well, After Indy Nats in late 1971 when MotorWheel & Kenner Toy bought the SS/K 1972 455 HO 4spd car for me, Pontiac provided all the necessary engines/SD rods/transmissions/rear ends/etc and all of the product sponsors (Crane/GoodYear/Gasket/STP/Valvoline/Lunati/etc) provided everything else necessary to run a good program.

In the first shipment from Pontiac there were 6 complete assembled 455 HO engines, 6 rear ends, 6 transmissions, and considering that I would still be running the 68 Bird in Stock, there were a couple of 400s and sets of RA96 heads. I am probably forgetting something but that is how my 1972 season began.
[quote]

Holly crap!
Life must of been great back then.

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Old 01-17-2023, 01:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hard-Timess View Post
Anyone find my car???
I knew where it was then. And now, but Truman. Thankfully, you also know where it is. Now!!!

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