[HWYSTR455]

Is there something specific about the ends where an end user couldn't build them oneself?



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[R 70 Judge]

Originally Posted by HWYSTR455

Is there something specific about the ends where an end user couldn't build them oneself?



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No, not really. Holley smart coils take an HEi style end. Nearly all of the current offerings by the big manufacturers are for LS style coils. Motion Raceworks offers a set of firecores for smart coils but they are too short for a Pontiac application. Same with Moroso, but the Moroso’s still barely fit. Building them isn’t a big deal. It just would’ve been nice to have something available off the shelf.

[HWYSTR455]

Ah, gotcha, thank you for that piece of info, will make a mental note.

HEI ends makes it easy though.

I always make my own, never seem to get it right when they are application specific. They always are too long, or you end up with one that's too short.


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[R 70 Judge]

Update: Well it was almost running today. Turns out the Holley dual sync has a bad module. Surprising that the module was bad considering the dual sync is brand new. Out should be up and running next week once the replacement parts arrive.

[R 70 Judge]

Remote IAC from Kinsler fuel injection. The throttle body mount IAC hit the hood so I came up with this as an alternative. Pictures are from last week. Not today.

[HWYSTR455]

Originally Posted by R 70 Judge

Update: Well it was almost running today. Turns out the Holley dual sync has a bad module. Surprising that the module was bad considering the dual sync is brand new. Out should be up and running next week once the replacement parts arrive.

I'm on my 3rd dual sync on the GTO, the 442 on the 3rd as well.

First one on GTO was DOA. Sent datalogs to Holley support, they sent one out immediately.

Second one ran for about 2 hours total, would break up over 2000 RPM. Sent it back, they tested it, and send me a new one.

I'm actually having some odd timing issues now, haven't had the time to dig on it, but anything over 2500 RPM and it detonates. Hoping to get to it over the next couple weekends.

The 442, had a FAST dual sync to start, the holley wasn't available at that time, startup was good drove about 500 miles and died. Sent it back, they sent me a new one. Ran for a few years fine, about 25k miles, would randomly just cut out. Cycle the ignition, would start right up, and still randomly just 'shut off'. Swapped in an HEI and did no timing control. Got a dual sync when I put the new stroker in it, has the same problem the GTO has, anything over 2500 and it detonates.

Both cars, regardless of timing or how fat you make it, still does it. Frustrating. I did have some RFI/EMi issues that I corrected on the GTO, it helped, the datalogs are clean, but still det over 2500 RPM.

I'm thinking the inductive delay needs to be adjusted, or maybe some RoC blanking. I just need time to work it out, been crazy busy with life in general. But I'll get to it here soon...

Sometimes you need to disconnect the ECU from power and let it sit for a day, Holley support even mentioned that to me. I've had so many tunes uploaded/downloaded, maybe that will help, who knows. Just need some time to work on it!


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[R 70 Judge]

Originally Posted by HWYSTR455

I'm on my 3rd dual sync on the GTO, the 442 on the 3rd as well.

First one on GTO was DOA. Sent datalogs to Holley support, they sent one out immediately.

Second one ran for about 2 hours total, would break up over 2000 RPM. Sent it back, they tested it, and send me a new one.

I'm actually having some odd timing issues now, haven't had the time to dig on it, but anything over 2500 RPM and it detonates. Hoping to get to it over the next couple weekends.

The 442, had a FAST dual sync to start, the holley wasn't available at that time, startup was good drove about 500 miles and died. Sent it back, they sent me a new one. Ran for a few years fine, about 25k miles, would randomly just cut out. Cycle the ignition, would start right up, and still randomly just 'shut off'. Swapped in an HEI and did no timing control. Got a dual sync when I put the new stroker in it, has the same problem the GTO has, anything over 2500 and it detonates.

Both cars, regardless of timing or how fat you make it, still does it. Frustrating. I did have some RFI/EMi issues that I corrected on the GTO, it helped, the datalogs are clean, but still det over 2500 RPM.

I'm thinking the inductive delay needs to be adjusted, or maybe some RoC blanking. I just need time to work it out, been crazy busy with life in general. But I'll get to it here soon...

Sometimes you need to disconnect the ECU from power and let it sit for a day, Holley support even mentioned that to me. I've had so many tunes uploaded/downloaded, maybe that will help, who knows. Just need some time to work on it!


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Well that isn’t very reassuring. If I have as many problems as you I’ll get the signals a different way. Thanks for sharing your experience

[HWYSTR455]

Well, I was dealing with gen1 releases, some rusted. I've only had 1 gen 2 fail, but not sure if the issue(s) I'm having now are failed distributors, but it does seem odd both cars have the same issue.

Pretty sure Holley was aware of the problems with the 1st production runs, but never admitted it.

As a reference, I did an Accel multiport EFI setup in 1998/99, using the Accel dual sync, and never had an issue with it. Did the conversion and went on the Power Tour, drove it over 3500 miles in a week. Have helped others (non-Pontiacs) do conversions, no issues. So it's not my first rodeo.

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[HWYSTR455]

Small update on my situation, come to find out, in 2019-2021 year range, Holley had a 'bad run' of dual sync dizzies. Not all, but many have issues. If you think you have one from those years, and you are having issues, contact support for a replacement.

I just ordered another and got it friday, will continue to troubleshoot my issue(s). If I still have problems, I will probably drop back to a pro billet and do untimed sequential.

I have a Billet Specialties Tru Trac serp setup, so don't believe it wouldn't be easy for me to do a crank trigger.



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[R 70 Judge]

I appreciate the update. It’s good to know there’s a timeframe of bad sensors and they aren’t all completely crap.

I just went round and round on the phone with Holley/MSD today. They were initially refusing to cover it under warranty. I stayed polite and reiterated that it was DOA, plus Holley had made a notation on my account that I had an extended return time since they took several months to get me the correct coil harness. In the end the supervisor was helpful and agreed to warranty the repair. My dual sync was built in January 2022. I ordered and received it May 2022.

My builder said that Holley/MSD called him this afternoon and advised that they would repair my dual sync ship it out ASAP. I sure hope they send my exact dual sync back because it has my $150 BOP composite gear already installed.

[HWYSTR455]

Sadly, I doubt you will get your exact dizzy back, they usually just put in an order to fulfillment/shipping.

On a positive note, a member here makes a 24x crank trigger wheel and pickup bracket where the wheel mounts to the back of the balancer. This is great news to me, since I wouldn't have to space out the serpentine setup, allowing me to move to a DIS setup. I had previously done calculations on mounting the 4 tower coil packs on the backs of the heads, and I might go this route if the dual sync fails me.

I don't care for the look of the CNP setups with coils on the valve covers, but would do so if I had to. Would be nice to see if some makes covers.


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[JC455]

Who is this member that is making the 24x wheels, etc.? Any links to his stuff?
Thanks!

[HWYSTR455]

This is the thread on the 24x wheel and cam sync setup stuff:

http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/....php?p=6126971

He's getting ready to do 58x wheels too.

Company name is 2nd Gen Engineering, out of Jersey. His contact info is at the end of that thread.

I just ordered the setup today, he can send you pics.


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[JLMounce]

do you mind providing a price? I've been looking at these setups, but it's hard to pin down costs involved.

[HWYSTR455]

I'd prefer not to post a price, but they are readily available when you contact them. Considering what you get, it's fair.

Since the wheel has to be mounted to the balancer, an SFI 18.1 balancer is included since there is machine work involved. A BOP composite gear is included on the cam sync, and both use hall effect sensors.

I specifically ordered the crank & cam setup, not the whole 'kit'. They sell complete SEFI setups, with different ECU options. How it can be broken down by items I'm not sure of, so it's best to reach out for pricing.

Not sure why manufacturers of balancers haven't gotten on board with incorporating flying magnets or other trigger mechanisms on balancers yet, someone/something should push them into doing so. Just makes sense.


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[R 70 Judge]

Update: It’s running but not running well. It seems there are still some cam/crank signal issues.

Just in case I want to try it out, does anyone have a decent base Terminator X startup tune for a Pontiac? Standard firing order.

[HWYSTR455]

Is there an area in the base fuel or base timing maps you're concerned with?

It's better to create your own files, can use examples of others' CFGs.

As for the signal, what are you seeing, erratic/unstable timing at idle when pointing a timing light at the timing mark?


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[R 70 Judge]

I was mistake regarding the timing/fuel map. That’s fine. The issue seems to be with getting the dual sync to be happy with the CNP set-up.

I’m not with the car currently so I can’t provide a play by play. The guy setting it up is very knowledgeable with Holley stuff and has done a bunch of them. My dual sync is just being a pita

[HWYSTR455]

When you say 'happy', what do you mean? Give me a symptom.

You basically are just wiring the crank & cam pickups like you would normally as a dual-syn distributor, or for 'crank trigger' and 'cam trigger'. (Which is basically the same thing.) I suggest using custom, and set it up like in the doc provided with it.

Coils are wired per the firing order, as laid out in the main harness & COP/CNP docs. (Wiring manual 199r10555 and CNP doc 199r10515rev3)

It kinda works or it doesn't, like on/off, so unless you have a ground/power issue, or maybe a poor ground, not much left other than the software setup and the triggers.

Do the 2 step ignition setup (timing sync), verify your timing and timing stability:

https://forums.holley.com/forum/holl...ng-Holley-EFI=


This might help, but you can pick & choose the stuff you want to look at:

https://forums.holley.com/forum/holl...nts-Read-This=

Just to say, my symptoms are idle timing is erratic when static timing is enabled, and the ECU resets as it moves up in RPM. The reset makes the engine see all the reference angle advance (50 degrees).

If you are experiencing that, I think you know what I would say next.

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[R 70 Judge]

It’s alive!!! Starts up, idles and revs. Turned out to be an issue with the dwell

It still needs tuning obviously but we are getting closer