[vintagempg]

New Member

So I'm trying to resurrect a solid '68 F-bird that's been in storage for well over a decade. From all I can tell, things have been poorly done by the previous owner.... And the water pump is proving no different.

I pulled the water pump and discovered some real voodoo; all sorts of chunky and gooey junk, poor gaskets, etc. Hopefully you can see some of this in my attached photos.

I have several questions:

Does the 350 have the two rubber gaskets/sleeves at the lower corners of the water pump? There were none on this car.

Does that water pump/timing cover separator plate need to fit closely to the opening of the timing cover? You can see mine has some large gaps in the passenger side. I'm guessing that's not acceptable either.

At this point I'm very anxious about being able to salvage the engine at all. A full-blown removal seems almost imminent at this point, but gosh - if I can flush this stuff out and get the right water pump setup, she ought to make a decent driver.

Compression all measured consistent (on the low side, but consistent), with no weird noises... So my fingers are crossed that perhaps there's still hope for this one.

I'll get this water pump business straightened out and try to make a good decision from there.

What do you guys think? Do I need those water pump sleeves and a new timing cover/water pump separation plate?

[george kujanski]

There are 2 plates with those pumps....The internal housing plate, which should be a close fit to the pump vane tips And the divider plate, which should fit midway along the length of the vanes. The divider plate takes the flow from the vanes and splits it to each bank of the block. With these 8 bolt pumps, the manual does not show sleeves between it and the block. The pump sucks in coolant from the center hole in the internal housing plate, which is why there should be minimum clearance between it and the pump vanes.

Check the thread in the heating/cooling forum titled "chalk up one more for the cast impeller..........." a lot of reading there....

George

[vintagempg]

It's bad, isn't it!

Definitely one of the nastiest I've ever seen. Terrible.

I've got the car on jack stands at the moment, but I'll get her back on the ground and shuffled over to a spot where I can really hit that cooling system with some water. Hopefully flush out some of the crud.

The oil pan had some coolant mixed in with the oil; could any of that cross contamination have happened right here? Where this water pump/timing cover meet? Any chance I'll find something that's rusted behind those separator plates that would have allowed coolant to find an oil jacket?

Or should I just assume the worst: cracked block/head?

I was aiming to attempt the new water pump and gaskets just to verify any potential options before going straight to an engine removal..... You think I'm on the right track?

[Shiny]

Corrosion can definitely eat through the pump and allow coolant to enter the oil. Hopefully that's the case for you.

[vintagempg]

Originally Posted by Shiny

Corrosion can definitely eat through the pump and allow coolant to enter the oil. Hopefully that's the case for you.

Does the corrosion happen at the water pump? Or maybe the timing cover?

Gotta be the timing cover, right?

I'll get those separator plates yanked this morning and see what I uncover....

[Shiny]

Yes, timing cover...I removed corrosion products, found it had eaten through the casting and there was a hole. I tried to repair it with epoxy and it didn't hold. If there's any question, might be wise to replace it. Hope it all works out well for you.

[vintagempg]

So I found some good news/bad news.

There was only one separator plate - not the matching pair. Interesting.

There's was TONS of sludge and crap behind that separator plate. I mean it was NASTY.

However, I discovered a good-sized hole worn through the timing cover. That's good news and bad. Good news is that perhaps my engine block is not cracked, but the bad news: I've now got a timing cover replacement job. That's a chore. Still easier than rebuilding the entire engine.

Wondering about just yanking the engine to just do main and rod bearings and perhaps the rear main seal. Freshen up some gaskets, paint it, then reinstall. Can deal with the timing cover while she's on the engine stand.

Thoughts?

[Shiny]

Glad you found a reason for the coolant in the oil. Agree that sounds like better news than a cracked block!

Good luck with your decisions... never simple.

Mike

[Sirrotica]

If the engine has been run with coolant in the oil, removing it, and replacing bearings is going to be a good choice. Antifreeze can ruin bearings quickly. Gaskets, oil pump also smart if you're pulling the pan.

Rear main seals, if you've never done a rope rear main seal, you could actually make it leak, if it's not leaking now, or make it worse, if it's seeping currently. The easiest way to install a new rear main upper half, is to take the crank out of the block. Yes, you can pull a new rope in with chinese fingers, but chances it will seal properly are not very good. I made my living for over 50 years turning wrenches, so I do have plenty of experience with rear main rope seals. Not a fun job, and not easy to get then perfectly sealed, especially if you're a novice.

Link to You Tube, replace rear main rope seal in a Pontiac:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azVpAoH_awM

One other thing is right now, Pontiac engine bearings are in short supply, so you might get hung up if you can't find any.