[poison heart]

A Super T10 is stronger than a Muncie? Really?

I went with a Muncie because they're not that hard to find and I thought they were the strongest of the 4 speeds. I guess I thought wrong.

And yes you will have all sorts of fun trying to get headers to clear the starter. I've tried 3 different brands and the only ones that cleared after hammering were Hedmans but they hit my pitman arm so they didn't work for me. May work in your truck. I have Hedman 3 tubes in my 59 right now and they clear but only by about a cm. Too close for comfort.

[rwolf]

Are you willing to sell those headman's that did not fit on yours, that will give me something to start with to check fit and then go from there.

Also I am know taking my motor to Greg in Longmont CO since I live in CO.

So I am really confused know between the Muncie and the super t-10, but that doesn't take much!

Thanks
Robert

[60man]

Originally Posted by rwolf

Are you willing to sell those headman's that did not fit on yours, that will give me something to start with to check fit and then go from there.

Also I am know taking my motor to Greg in Longmont CO since I live in CO.

So I am really confused know between the Muncie and the super t-10, but that doesn't take much!

Thanks
Robert

Makes since to go with Greg (oink1) since you are in CO....
Good choice.....I've bought a few parts off him in the past and chatted on phone with him..
On headers....starter may be your problem....other wise you could probably bolt on most any late Pontiac header.. A friend of mine ran a 62 Cat with Maddog headers.
There are several other vendors who make headers for 61 - 64 full size cars. With your truck (ladder style) frame they might fit OK...and pitman arm location may not matter??
I believe a 62 starter bolts like a 60 does....
Perhaps Mad-Dog might be worth a call....

[PONTIAC LARRY]

I doubt a late 70's Super T-10 is any stronger than a Muncie.. but lets make sure its a M-22 26 spline input Muncie vs the same spline BW trans...

Rob, your '59 Cat does have the M22 Muncie with the 26 spline clutch right ?

2.20 low gear..

Boy! that car needs a gear swap to at least 3.64's or 3.90's

[rwolf]

Not sure if you are talking to me, but I have not yet purchased a manual yet, but I was wondering what gears I should be looking for that would work with my 59 GMC truck and my built 389 that is going into it.

Robert

[rwolf]

I found this tranny on ebay is this something worth bidding on and will it work for my application? Or should I keep looking.


http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/SUPER...1%7C240%3A1318

[PONTIAC LARRY]

rwolf,
I was addressing poisenheart but...
Yeah.. that looks like a good tranny for you and that 2.64 low gear will help.
I would presume your truck came with a 3.73 or 4.10 and with that tranny , it would be fantastic with a hot 389 but if you got the 4.25 stroker kit.. A 3.23-3.42 gear would suffice..

[Bill Hanlon]

Originally Posted by rwolf

Not sure if you are talking to me, but I have not yet purchased a manual yet, but I was wondering what gears I should be looking for that would work with my 59 GMC truck and my built 389 that is going into it.

Robert

If the truck is a half ton (vin # starts with 101 or 102) it left the factory with a Spicer 45 with either a 3.08 or 3.92 ratio. There was also a "Powr-Lok" (posi) option offered, also Spicer 45 based. My 3.08 now has over 200,000 miles and other than a new set of outer axle bearings and a few lube changes has been no trouble at all.

[rwolf]

It is the half ton and it had the factory 336 pontiac and 4 speed granny manual. Not sure what stock rearend is in it.

[PONTIAC LARRY]

rwolf,
Not to be nosey but.. That pic of your 389 on the pallet doesnt look like it would be safe to ship like that and why is it fully dressed with carb and generator? No engine builder will need or want any of the accessories on the engine.. Just a long block or short block only . I just would hate to see all those good parts get lost or damaged in shipping. That engine also looks real clean and gives me the impression that it is already rebuilt. Is it good running condition ? Just asking..

[rwolf]

It is not ready to be shipped just set it up there to get it out of the way and make it easier to move around. I will say that with the 2 x10 siting longways under the oil pan rim and it all screw to runners and then to the pallet, I then flipped the motor mounts down to hold the 2 x 10 in place then use used rachet straps to hold it down, it does not move an inch. I just used my bobcat with pallet forks to put it in the back of my GMC until I take it over to Greg.

The person that I bought the 60 Catalina from said his father rebuilt it but he had no records of what had/had not been done. When i drove the car around it seemed pretty strong and sounded good but I did see some blow-by. I will finish pulling parts before I take it just have not had time. The carb, intake and generator really does not matter to me since I will change it over to an alternator and my offenhauser tri power will be going on it.

Thanks for asking!

[poison heart]

Robert, I actually just started cutting my Hedmans today to start fabbing up my fenderwell exit headers. I do still have the Summit headers but I cut the collecter short on one to try to get it to clear the frame. It might have some hammering on it as well. You are welcome to borrow one or buy both from me to check fitment. From Summit they're only about $110.

Larry, I did some research and found that it's probably an M20. It has 2 rings on the input shaft which means it's an M20. I did have a few people surprised to see the drain plug and said they didn't normally do that on M20s. I also found that all 70+muncies had 26 spline input shafts and the big output shaft. So, I think it's an M20 with the 2.52 first gear. I think the 3.42 or 3.64 gears will work fine. I think I'm going to go with 3.64 gears if Fabcraft makes another run of them by the time I am ready to buy.

I'm using a dual friction clutch made by Fort Wayne Clutch. It's a kevlar/ceramic supposed to be good for 600hp. It's a 12" 26 spline. I'm having trouble fitting it in the Pontiac bellhousing. It fit in the '59 GMC bellhousing just fine. I may need to grind about 1/4 off the bottom to squeeze it in there.

[rwolf]

I will be hopefully using my GMC flywheel, I think that since my truch had the factory v8 it has the 11" clutch. Will I be able to match a clutch to that flywheel and the super t-10.

[poison heart]

I'm still using the flywheel out of the GMC also. Mine had a 12" clutch on it, so I put a 12" clutch also.

I had to get the flywheel redrilled to match the bolt pattern on the pressure plate. But I guess it depends on what pressure plate you go with.

The problem for me was finding a 12" clutch with 26 splines. I called Fort Wayne and they made me what I needed. I did have to send the disc back to get the center hub spaced differently.

[rwolf]

Will the Muncie or the t-10 work with my output shaft and my drive shaft length that I currently have on my stock truck manual work.

I am still looking hard to find the correct tranny for my motor and truck application? To many variables my head is spinning, when I go to look up Muncie I see m20, m21 and m22, The m22 are really pricey. Then I go to the t-10 and they are the old style 4 speeds, then I go to the super t-10 and they are the newer style with a finer spline input shaft.

Just call me a winier !

[poison heart]

haha You'll figure it out. When I first started building my 59 I had no idea what anything was either. I thought I'd never even figure out how rear end gear ratios worked.

You probably don't want an M21 or an M22 because those are close ratio trannies. They're stronger than the M20s but the gears are closer together.

I don't know if your driveshaft has the same splines and same diameter of either transmission. I bet some of them do though. My 71 Muncie has the same output splines as my stock 59 Pontiac driveshaft. So far it looks like I will have to get my drive shaft shortened about an inch or 2. I think the pre 1970 muncies have a smaller diameter output shaft. I would assume your truck has the big out put shaft like my Pontiac does. Maybe measure that and try to count the splines and post it on here. I'm sure someone knows what trannies had what size shafts and splines.

[Jack Gifford]

Originally Posted by rwolf

Will the Muncie or the t-10 work with my output shaft and my drive shaft length that I currently have on my stock truck...

The "granny" 4-speed in my '59 GMC didn't use a slip yoke at the output, as most cars do. It has a flanged output shaft for the front U-joint, then a splined slip-joint as part of the driveshaft. I assume your GMC is the same deal? So you'd need a complete driveshaft and slip yoke to mate with a Muncie/T-10/etc.

[poison heart]

You're right Jack. I had a GMC heavy duty tranny connected when I bought that motor out of the GMC. I couldn't give that damn thing away.

[rwolf]

Yes I looked under my truck and yes it has the yoke bolted directly to the output shaft and then goes to a carrier bearing and then a slip yoke. I have this drive line work ahead of my I can see. I will have to get the drive shaft between the tranny and the carrier bearing worked on.

Can one of you guys get me a measurement from the front of the tranny mounting point to the center point of the shifter. I need to get a rough idea were my shifter is going to come up in my tunnel.

Also I dropped my motor off at Pontiac Gregg's today, what a nice guy and he really knows his stuff!

Thanks
Robert

[Jack Gifford]

Originally Posted by rwolf

... and then goes to a carrier bearing and then a slip yoke...

"carrier bearing"? My 1/2 ton GMC driveshaft is supported only by the U-joint at each end. Just take the shaft and a slip-yoke (for the Muncie) to a driveshaft-service place and tell them what length you want (center-to-center dimension, front-to-rear U-joints).

I believe your truck has 3.07 gears originally.