[TRADERMIKE 2012]

Originally Posted by Gach

I’m guessing your rods are cast rods, which would explain (if it’s) I spun bearing would explain why it spun.

Mikes reply:

We have the Block on the work table and we are ready to open the lower Oil pan to dismantle the Crank and pistons, it's 11 pm Sunday night and we called it quits for now. We will work on this during the week and begin micrometering the Journals soon. Once we pull the Crank, will we see if this Block has factory stuff in it?

[Gach]

Of course I don’t know how many miles are on those pistons or what condition the cylinder walls are in. That’s something I would do is mic the Pistons and check the bore. To see if just putting new rings will work.

[Gach]

Another question Has this block ever been bored and had new pistons installed don’t remember reading anything as far as that goes

[242177P]

Originally Posted by TRADERMIKE 2012

I could home port the existing Heads to Intake manifolds by using the gaskets as a template and the same to the existing Head exhaust to Header.

That's not porting, that's just gasket matching. And the exhaust side definitely benefits from a certain mismatch. You're going to want to figure out some of this stuff before you dive in. Just saying.

[TRADERMIKE 2012]

Originally Posted by Gach

Another question Has this block ever been bored and had new pistons installed don’t remember reading anything as far as that goes

Mikes reply:

From the earlier measurements that we took in other Threads, we could say that the Bore is stock 428 ci from the factory. The Pistons are stock as well , they are installed backwards for race reasons, we deduced, except number 2 cyl, why" In addition, the number 6 cyl Rod is in reverse, noted by a forum member, why?

Further examination to come for sure...

[TRADERMIKE 2012]

Originally Posted by Gach

Of course, I don’t know how many miles are on those pistons or what condition the cylinder walls are in. That’s something I would do is mic. the Pistons and check the bore. To see if just putting new rings will work.

Mikes reply:

In other Threads of mine this information is readily available, go to my name and press on it and the system will take you to all my input both in my own threads and others as well. If the thread is by Tradermike 2012 then I initiated the Thread in the first place. Other than that, I took over a few, not on purpose, I was learning PY forum 101.

The measurements we took were an inch from the top, middle and an inch short of the bottom, there was a slight difference and no scoring on the cyl. walls either, all in all, my first impression is one could just re-ring and change the Bearings, but we will prove that in a short time.

It is best to cruise my Threads for the information that I have provided, some will be in photos that I took of written notes that we wrote as we research and developed this ten-year project. I would not be surprised if I had 500 pages of these notes in my files at home. Forget about all the documents on my computer.

I was able to salvage, with the help of the forum, all the HO data lost when the servers were cleaned or purged of older data, to make room for the new. This is why I like to leave information in text on my threads, instead of leaving URL's, that get wiped out during one of these events and you don't when it's coming. Unfortunately, the forum does not agree with me on this issue.

We will provide more Info. as it is available, with actual photos to collaborate what I think vs actual factual measurements, that count.

[Gach]

One can't just install the parts as they came out, especially in my case where Pistons are backwards and at least one Rod is as well. However, thanks to the...

I read this before, thats why I’m confused so someone put a couple pistons in backwards. So it was just re-ringed with stock pistons, or bored with new pistons or just a couple of pistons were changed. I guess it doesn’t matter, just wondering if it stock bore.

[Dragncar]

If you "port" the exhaust to match your gaskets, that is called booger porting. At least that is what Whitmore called it. That it not where the power is at anyway.
And you can ruin your head in extreme cases. Header gaskets vary greatly. Leave it to the pros.

[TRADERMIKE 2012]

Originally Posted by Gach

I read this before, that's why I’m confused, so someone put a couple pistons in backwards. So, it was just re-ringed with stock pistons or bored with new pistons or just a couple of pistons were changed. I guess it doesn’t matter, just wondering if its stock bore.

Mikes reply:

We measured and found them to be stock bore.

This motor was rebuilt in 1968 and the mechanic put a date on it 2/2/68 or (2268), the forum is aware of this and the consensus is that is when it was built for race purposes and was used in moon shining later in its life. This motor, when built in 1968 for racers, was completed with the Tri-power Cam #588 and the Tri-power Intake. Mostly racers knew that you could buy these parts, over the counter, in those days. As a matter of fact, race rules in the day require that by rule, you must use factory parts in stock class, only.

Seven Pistons were in backwards and the # 2 Piston was the only one to be installed correctly. # 6 Rod is in wrong because you can see the squirt hole in the photo and you are not supposed to according to the man that discovered the error. It is presumed that the builder swopped the Pistons from side to side in the same Journal, as they would do, back in the day for race purposes. The pistons would have maintained the wrist pin and rings this way. How things got messed up is a mystery. Perhaps we might discover the "why" of it all, soon.

Until then, we (myself and the forum) have found an error in the 1967 shop manual drawings of a piston orientation that could have contributed to the error, when seen by a mechanic, trusting too much in the factory manual.

If you have time, please go through my Threads, because all this stuff about Piston slap was discussed in full and it explains "why the racers reversed the Pistons," on purpose.

[Gach]

I gotcha, it was to make up for the pin off set, pretty interesting that was one of the things they ( racers) would do. Now I’m clear on exactly whats going on. I’ve read most of your post, but you just gave a better explanation. Thanks.

[Gach]

There’s a whole article in HO book, about pin off set..but don’t quote me its been a long time since I’ve read that book. Way back it was like the Pontiac book on engine building.

[Kenth]

Originally Posted by TRADERMIKE 2012

Until then, we (myself and the forum) have found an error in the 1967 shop manual drawings of a piston orientation that could have contributed to the error, when seen by a mechanic, trusting too much in the factory manual.

The 1967 Pontiac Service Manual is correct regarding piston/rod orientation as showned is Fig. 6-80 and Fig. 6-136.

FWIW

[TRADERMIKE 2012]

Originally Posted by Kenth

The 1967 Pontiac Service Manual is correct regarding piston/rod orientation as showed in Fig. 6-80 and Fig. 6-136.

FWIW

Mikes reply:

Someone indicated that in one of the Manuals, possibly 1968 then, that a drawing was shown from the front of the vehicle looking back toward the windshield and the draftsman did not call out what direction to look from, with an arrow. You will find both the drawings in my threads. I am not giving any mechanic an excuse for misreading a confusing drawing.

No matter, in my case, to have seven Pistons in reverse for race reasons, does "not" negate the # 2 Piston being the only one to be correct. The # 6 Rod also, why would anyone orientate that particular rod backward? Unless he modified it by clogging the squirt hole with a rod and then drilled the other side to compensate to squirt the oil into the opposite cylinders Piston pin area. This, I will find out, when I rip it apart soon.

If the mechanic was any good, he could have ground down any rod, "not" to interfere with the weight side of the Crank, when he performed this build. I have been trying to reason, "what would I have done? If all I had to work with was the parts in my motor. Then you must add to the aquation, it is "not" like the builder of my motor was out to sea repairing this motor, with only its parts. There I go over thinking again, my bad!

[Kenth]

When will you realize it was an *d**t who screwed up your engine?
No sane person would screw up an engine like that.
There was NOTHING racing at all about what was done to it.
And don't blame others for your writing which is questionable at best.

Please keep the thread OBJEKTIVE.

FWIW

[TRADERMIKE 2012]

Originally Posted by Kenth

When will you realize it was an *d**t who screwed up your engine?
No sane person would screw up an engine like that.
There was NOTHING racing at all about what was done to it.
And don't blame others for your writing which is questionable at best.

Please keep the thread OBJEKTIVE.

FWIW

Mikes reply:

At least I use spell check, try it objective.

[TRADERMIKE 2012]

This is for the people who are new to the conversation, util I remeasure and micrometer the engine, in its broken-down state. These are the results taken previously, for your update purposes and so you won't have to search the various Threads that I am in.

[TRADERMIKE 2012]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenth View Post
Kenth´s reply,

What does all this engine talk have to do in your TH400 thread?

You have started an engine thread; can you please keep the engine talk there?

Kenth´s out
Mikes reply:

I became confused with the two Threads being close in title, for one thing I made a mistake. Secondly, I have asked the moderator, Why the different Threads were not showing up in the emails as they used to under their various names. The answer is there working on it and to leave it at that.

Once that is fixed, I won't have to go to my name and look through the Threads for what thread that I want to be in.

So, for all intents and purposes don't sweat the small stuff and bear with it, no one is perfect, certainly not you. I've had enough of you cry babies to last the rest of my life, your like condo castopo's (COPS).

These are the two different drawings, one is correct and easily understood, the other needs work, take from me, I got an "A" in drafting. The viewer may not know what left and right-side Bank is, the draftsman should have at least made a legend for that.

For example, the person sitting in the driver's seat looking out the windshield forward, on the driver's side, is on the left Bank!

Drawing 1 of 3 is viewed from the front of the vehicle, looking toward the windshield.

Drawing 2 of 3 is if you were sitting in the driver's seat looking out the window.

This misleading information, from one of the above drawings, could have accidentally caused a mechanic, who did not know the difference between these two-drawings, appearing in yes, the 1967 Pontiac Manual. According to these drawings anyway, this could cause confusion as in the faulty building of my motor, God knows how many mechanics got this Piston installation wrong over the years, if they simply only used this incorrect reference and worse did not research better.

Is this the reason the building of my motor is so messed up, who knows? The key is to fix it, now that I am convinced, in my own time, that it is time to do so.

If I had "not" just remanufactured the Heads on this Pontiac 1967 428 ci HO with D-port "067" Heads, along with rebuilding the inside of the motor with an "041" Cam, Johnson Lifters, HD push rods, New Oil pump, Timing Gears and chain first, I might "not" have spun a Bearing on the Crank pin or rod Bearing. The key is to build an engine all at once. Too many times in my life people have told me that this will happen. I am a believer, ha-a-lou-ya- AMEN.

[78w72]

How can rebuilding heads cause your bearing to spin ???

[tom s]

Can we not rehash all the old crap?If someone needs it they can go to old threads!These things get long enough with Mikes reply!Measure the pistons at the skirt,the other numbers wont mean much.Tom

[jerry455]

You can freshen heads and add a better cam in an older engine. People do it and did it all the time. That is how horsepower evolves. If you try to do that on an engine that is less than sound, then you can have poor results.