[kingbuzzo]

https://www.autoblog.com/2023/04/27/...sla-autopilot/

[The Champ]

Originally Posted by Stuart

Yes, I know cars don't sell as well as SUVs or crossovers, but that doesn't mean I want one. Like I said it was my personal opinion.

Stuart

I understood that you were interested in a 'car'.

That's why I pointed out that the Malibu will probably come to America in 2025 - just one year away.

I like cars to. That's why my daily driver is a Cadillac CT4. Yes I have an Equinox too, but unless I need the extra cargo space, the CT4 is much more fun to drive.

I'm probably not looking at the possibility of an EV anything for at least 3 - 4 more years - assuming that they prove to be more viable where I live, work and play by then.

On many technological things, I'm an 'early adopter'. Electric cars were attempted over 100 years ago and lost the battle to the internal combustion engine. I'm content to wait to see if the new attempt is truly a step in the right direction for more than an in city commuter vehicle.

[turbo69bird]

Originally Posted by The Champ

Stuart

I understood that you were interested in a 'car'.

That's why I pointed out that the Malibu will probably come to America in 2025 - just one year away.

I like cars to. That's why my daily driver is a Cadillac CT4. Yes I have an Equinox too, but unless I need the extra cargo space, the CT4 is much more fun to drive.

I'm probably not looking at the possibility of an EV anything for at least 3 - 4 more years - assuming that they prove to be more viable where I live, work and play by then.

On many technological things, I'm an 'early adopter'. Electric cars were attempted over 100 years ago and lost the battle to the internal combustion engine. I'm content to wait to see if the new attempt is truly a step in the right direction for more than an in city commuter vehicle.

They didn’t so much lose to gas cars as they lost to the tycoons of standard oil and the likes . I totally understand the reluctance of the electric car, believe me I hated these things.
But now that I’ve had some time with a TESLA it’s a differnt story.
I’ve been in other EVs even hybrids it’s just NOT the same thing.

It’s kinda like how space X and elon not just flew rockets as others (countries only of course) had , but they then decided to LAND the used up parts of the rockets on a small X out in the ocean over and over again
Reducing cost That was an amazing thing to even attempt never mind to accomplish.

It’s just not the same as what others are doing it’s thinking outside the box.

Not everyone is gonna “get it” I know I didn’t so I don’t fault anyone else for not getting it either . It’s like chess Vs checkers w Tesla Vs the rest. A lot of people know chess is harder than checkers but until you really enjoy chess you don't realize how different.
With EVs - Everyone else is just trying to copy those who actually blazed the trail and that’s Tesla

[The Champ]

Originally Posted by turbo69bird

I totally understand the reluctance of the electric car, believe me I hated these things.
But now that I’ve had some time with a TESLA it’s a differnt story.

I think you missed the part of my statement about EV's where I stated 'where I live, work and play'.

IF your driving is primarily in a major metropolitan area where chargers are readily available, that changes things.

IF your driving is primarily commuter miles, that changes things.

IF you have multiple other ICE vehicles to use when the EV isn't practical, that changes things.

Where I live, work and play, chargers area an issue.

When l want to travel and chargers aren't conveniently located - I need to rearrange my trip route to drive where the chargers are.

Then there is the time factor of charging. I realize that they do have limited high voltage/high speed chargers - but even a high speed charger is much slower than filling a tank.

And the idea of charging on 110 V at home is a joke. Added to the price of the EV is the cost of a charging system in your garage that can actually charge an EV in a reasonable period of time.

I'm not moving to a major metropolitan area. I travel in areas that will continue to be on the backburner for rapid charger growth.

The funniest thing about many of the 'Teslaphiles' is that they claim they are doing the 'green' thing, but they all want to have the high HP EV's with the much larger batteries that 'burn' more electricity than the lower powered EV's.

And then there is the problem that our electric grid just can't (and won't in the foreseeable future) support the mass conversion to EV's that is coveted by the climate alarmists.

I won't spend much time talking about the climate costs to the mining of the minerals required to make the batteries, the type of labor that is used for it or the ecological results in the countries that they are currently coming from.

[Formulajones]

I'm with Champ. All the green weenies think they are saving the environment but don't want to talk about all the mining required for those special battery minerals. And guess what they are being mined with......LOL Not to mention, where do all the used up batteries go???

Don't care about the electric cars, have absolutely no interest at all in them. They don't really work around here anyway. Living in the Arizona desert with towns spread 100 miles apart with no charging stations in between they really don't make a lot of sense unless you live your life putting around town close to home. And who wants to sit around for hours charging a vehicle when I can fill one with gas in 2 minutes?? Want a faster charge? You pay more for it too and it still takes longer than filling my tank. This chit ain't free ya know....... Anyone see the electric truck reviews and how they fell way short? Especially towing. They don't go very far at all. Pretty much useless.

Have seen more than one home burn down with those charging stations too. Even an instance where a guy that I think worked with my father if I remember correctly, he torched his tesla because they wouldn't cover the batteries while the car was still under warranty and wanted to stick him with a $30,000 battery bill. Can't sell the car like that and who wants to spend that much money on batteries. Yeah no thanks. All those Tesla lovers will drop those cars like a bad habit when they find out what those batteries will cost them. Millennials think this is a new concept and don't realize this was tried in the early 1900's too. Talk about not having an electric grid to support it......LOL There are a couple of those that occasionally show up at the local car shows. Neat history but that's about it.

I've got some funny stories with tesla run ins on the road too.

[GTO JONES]

If you pull up to a charging station with an electric car how long does it take to get a full charge and what does it cost?

[GT182]

There was a Wawa quick stop torn down last year, not far away from where I live, and a new one built to replace it. Seeing they weren't allowed to put in gas pumps, they added Tesla charging stations. IIRC 12 of them. Haven't seen an EV using one yet. LOL

[The Champ]

Originally Posted by GTO JONES

If you pull up to a charging station with an electric car how long does it take to get a full charge and what does it cost?

First of all, they don't recommend getting a 'full charge'. It's harder on the battery.

They also don't recommend using high speed chargers as it degrades the battery over time.

Second, the length of time depends on:

a. the size of the battery
b. maximum charging rate of the vehicle
c. maximum charging rate of the charger
d. the outside temps when you are attempting to charge

Bottom line, once you find a charger, it can be anywhere from 30 minutes to half a day.

From Kia, an EV manufacturer:

' Minimize exposure to extremely high temperatures when parked

Exposure to the extreme heat while parking unplugged is when the frequent danger occurs. An automated temperature control system installed in your electric car will needlessly drain your batteries to keep the temperatures down for optimal efficiency. While this performance should only work when your electric vehicle is on the road using its battery, park your electric car in the shade or plug-in so that its thermal management system functions only using grid power, and make sure a stable range of temperatures during operation either.'

'Even though a full charge will give you the maximum operating time, it is never a good idea for the overall lifespan of your battery.'
Weather: It tends to take longer to charge at a lower temperature, particularly when using a rapid charger. Also, your car is less efficient at a lower temperature; so you cannot add much to the travel distance per time charging.'

'Avoid using fast charging

If your batteries are soon-to-be die out, using a fast-charging is a great convenience. However, it presses so much current into the batteries in a short period which strains your EV battery and wanes them faster. While it is hard to notice its degradation, eight years of standard charging will give you 10% more battery life compared to 8 years of using fast charging.'

'Fully charging a car can be done in just 30 minutes, or it may take as long as half a day. How big your battery is, or how fast your charging point is may change the time required.'

[Formulajones]

That's hillarious

I especially like this one.........

"Minimize exposure to extremely high temperatures when parked

Exposure to the extreme heat while parking unplugged is when the frequent danger occurs. "

Bawahahahaha!!!!

[turbo69bird]

Originally Posted by Formulajones

I'm with Champ. All the green weenies think they are saving the environment but don't want to talk about all the mining required for those special battery minerals. And guess what they are being mined with......LOL Not to mention, where do all the used up batteries go???

Don't care about the electric cars, have absolutely no interest at all in them. They don't really work around here anyway. Living in the Arizona desert with towns spread 100 miles apart with no charging stations in between they really don't make a lot of sense unless you live your life putting around town close to home. And who wants to sit around for hours charging a vehicle when I can fill one with gas in 2 minutes?? Want a faster charge? You pay more for it too and it still takes longer than filling my tank. This chit ain't free ya know....... Anyone see the electric truck reviews and how they fell way short? Especially towing. They don't go very far at all. Pretty much useless.

Have seen more than one home burn down with those charging stations too. Even an instance where a guy that I think worked with my father if I remember correctly, he torched his tesla because they wouldn't cover the batteries while the car was still under warranty and wanted to stick him with a $30,000 battery bill. Can't sell the car like that and who wants to spend that much money on batteries. Yeah no thanks. All those Tesla lovers will drop those cars like a bad habit when they find out what those batteries will cost them. Millennials think this is a new concept and don't realize this was tried in the early 1900's too. Talk about not having an electric grid to support it......LOL There are a couple of those that occasionally show up at the local car shows. Neat history but that's about it.

I've got some funny stories with tesla run ins on the road too.

Actually I’ve stated in multiple posts I dint think this way because I think it’s green . Has nothing to do with it for me. It’s not green at all stated that already. So you actually agree with me as well .
I like it because it’s the baddest azz car I’ve ever owned

[turbo69bird]

Originally Posted by The Champ

First of all, they don't recommend getting a 'full charge'. It's harder on the battery.

They also don't recommend using high speed chargers as it degrades the battery over time.

Second, the length of time depends on:

a. the size of the battery
b. maximum charging rate of the vehicle
c. maximum charging rate of the charger
d. the outside temps when you are attempting to charge

Bottom line, once you find a charger, it can be anywhere from 30 minutes to half a day.

From Kia, an EV manufacturer:

' Minimize exposure to extremely high temperatures when parked

Exposure to the extreme heat while parking unplugged is when the frequent danger occurs. An automated temperature control system installed in your electric car will needlessly drain your batteries to keep the temperatures down for optimal efficiency. While this performance should only work when your electric vehicle is on the road using its battery, park your electric car in the shade or plug-in so that its thermal management system functions only using grid power, and make sure a stable range of temperatures during operation either.'

'Even though a full charge will give you the maximum operating time, it is never a good idea for the overall lifespan of your battery.'
Weather: It tends to take longer to charge at a lower temperature, particularly when using a rapid charger. Also, your car is less efficient at a lower temperature; so you cannot add much to the travel distance per time charging.'

'Avoid using fast charging

If your batteries are soon-to-be die out, using a fast-charging is a great convenience. However, it presses so much current into the batteries in a short period which strains your EV battery and wanes them faster. While it is hard to notice its degradation, eight years of standard charging will give you 10% more battery life compared to 8 years of using fast charging.'

'Fully charging a car can be done in just 30 minutes, or it may take as long as half a day. How big your battery is, or how fast your charging point is may change the time required.'

That’s why Tesla has you CONDITION your batteries before fast charging so you dint have these issues they also send you notifications if your charging patterns are likely to damage you battery and how to have that NOT happen.

Did GM ever send you messages if huh driving habits were going to hurt you RAIV engine ? Nope. Anyway I get it people are haters. Y’all can hate it’s Ok but it’s still the best car I’ve ever owned so far . Because it does it all well

[turbo69bird]

Here’s what a model X plaid is actually like in Pontiac talk.
It’s a 71 GTO wagon , resto modded w corvette brakes , suspension and wheels , an aftermarket block alluminum head 535 w an 88 mm turbo on it that makes 1020 hP runs on pump gas , w fuel injection and a nice quiet exhaust.

That’s what would be equivalent in Pontiac.

[GTO JONES]

What does it cost to charge an electric car.

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by GTO JONES

What does it cost to charge an electric car.

There's no set answer for that. It depends on the particular car and the size of its battery, and also on what your local kilowatt-hour cost is (assuming you're charging at home.) if you're charging at a commercial station, that can vary widely as well, depending on who owns the station and where it's located.

[455dan]

Originally Posted by GTO JONES

What does it cost to charge an electric car.

I can tell you what a 200 mile trip cost me using home charging recently.

Model Y performance

200 miles total distance we pay 11.6 cents for a KWH.

The car used 62 % of its available charge to 96% which is 47 KWH to do the total distance

47 KWH X .116 = $ 5.45

I did the same trip a few weeks earlier with my Ram truck ( Cummins powered) It actually does exceptionally well on fuel usage

24 MPG 8.3 gallons diesel X $4.25 = $35.41

Almost 6 1/2 times the "fuel" cost.

[scott70]

Originally Posted by turbo69bird

Here’s what a model X plaid is actually like in Pontiac talk.
It’s a 71 GTO wagon , resto modded w corvette brakes , suspension and wheels , an aftermarket block alluminum head 535 w an 88 mm turbo on it that makes 1020 hP runs on pump gas , w fuel injection and a nice quiet exhaust.

That’s what would be equivalent in Pontiac.

Id take the 1 wagon you describe over 2 of the teslas. Im glad you like your EV...nothing wrong with that. People need to realize to not expect everyone else to be on board though. The EV makes a good option,,,but its not a requirement or a solution.

[Jay S]

Originally Posted by 455dan

I can tell you what a 200 mile trip cost me using home charging recently.

Model Y performance

200 miles total distance we pay 11.6 cents for a KWH.

The car used 62 % of its available charge to 96% which is 47 KWH to do the total distance

47 KWH X .116 = $ 5.45

I did the same trip a few weeks earlier with my Ram truck ( Cummins powered) It actually does exceptionally well on fuel usage

24 MPG 8.3 gallons diesel X $4.25 = $35.41

Almost 6 1/2 times the "fuel" cost.

Many years ago we did a project for a public power company, and also a University that made and sold it’s own power (Univerty of Missouri in Columbia). I wrote a feasibility study on the projects. Part of the study was on power costs, and how it varies for uses and the time of day it is used. I can absolutely see the merit’s of electric charged vehicle’s when there is excess power on the grid. With a recharge at night, or better yet a cool night when there is not much demand. Charging up a car on an average night, would cost next to nothing. Not looking at anything but cost, plugging in the battery operated (fill in the blank-it does not matter) it is cheap!

As long as you can use what ever battery operated item through out the day, and make it to the charge point in the evening, it works awesome and is cheap. If there is a shortage on the grid, then it isn’t cheap at night either.

When it won’t make it too that evening recharge, and you have to recharge during “peak” hours.. That gets dicey, at a charging station during the day costs a lot more than $5.45, maybe closer to $30???

Our little local utilities has big diesels they use for peaking units. They rarely ever use them because my area is surrounded my large public power plants that send power all over the grid. They generally lost money running them, it cost more to run them than the revenue they bring in. At least they use too. A couple years ago the price for a short time, because peak use went up, AVERAGED $9000 per MWH… Using that number ($5.45) it would have be $435 to take that trip 200 mile trip. It had been a few years now, and I can recall what the peak was, I think it was over 20,000+ per MWH. It was from a big ice storm in Texas in 2020. You would not have wanted to plug an electric car in at that time. Point to point, a full recharge would have been several thousand dollars. Utilities have a few details to work out before everyone is running battery power stuff charged off the grid.

[455dan]

Originally Posted by Jay S

Many years ago we did a project for a public power company, and also a University that made and sold it’s own power (Univerty of Missouri in Columbia). I wrote a feasibility study on the projects. Part of the study was on power costs, and how it varies for uses and the time of day it is used. I can absolutely see the merit’s of electric charged vehicle’s when there is excess power on the grid. With a recharge at night, or better yet a cool night when there is not much demand. Charging up a car on an average night, would cost next to nothing. Not looking at anything but cost, plugging in the battery operated (fill in the blank-it does not matter) it is cheap!

As long as you can use what ever battery operated item through out the day, and make it to the charge point in the evening, it works awesome and is cheap. If there is a shortage on the grid, then it isn’t cheap at night either.

When it won’t make it too that evening recharge, and you have to recharge during “peak” hours.. That gets dicey, at a charging station during the day costs a lot more than $5.45, maybe closer to $30???

Our little local utilities has big diesels they use for peaking units. They rarely ever use them because my area is surrounded my large public power plants that send power all over the grid. They generally lost money running them, it cost more to run them than the revenue they bring in. At least they use too. A couple years ago the price for a short time, because peak use went up, AVERAGED $9000 per MWH… Using that number ($5.45) it would have be $435 to take that trip 200 mile trip. It had been a few years now, and I can recall what the peak was, I think it was over 20,000+ per MWH. It was from a big ice storm in Texas in 2020. You would not have wanted to plug an electric car in at that time. Point to point, a full recharge would have been several thousand dollars. Utilities have a few details to work out before everyone is running battery power stuff charged off the grid.

We are part of an electric Co Op and has been really stable price No off hour or peak pricing or major rate changes over the years here. Also being where we live ~75 % of the grid is supplied by hydroelectric.
Yeah definitely would not want to buy while in Texas when that Ice storm spike happened.

Only 1400 miles on the car so far and the only public charging was done at the Tesla service center before picking up the car. Tesla ap said they sell for 33 cents a KWH so almost 3 times what home charging costs. If we needed a truck it would be a hybrid or another diesel. I can understand electric for SUV or car use, but using a truck to do any real distance towing just don't think it (electricity) makes much sense.

[scott70]

Originally Posted by Jay S

Many years ago we did a project for a public power company, and also a University that made and sold it’s own power (Univerty of Missouri in Columbia). I wrote a feasibility study on the projects. Part of the study was on power costs, and how it varies for uses and the time of day it is used. I can absolutely see the merit’s of electric charged vehicle’s when there is excess power on the grid. With a recharge at night, or better yet a cool night when there is not much demand. Charging up a car on an average night, would cost next to nothing. Not looking at anything but cost, plugging in the battery operated (fill in the blank-it does not matter) it is cheap!

As long as you can use what ever battery operated item through out the day, and make it to the charge point in the evening, it works awesome and is cheap. If there is a shortage on the grid, then it isn’t cheap at night either.

When it won’t make it too that evening recharge, and you have to recharge during “peak” hours.. That gets dicey, at a charging station during the day costs a lot more than $5.45, maybe closer to $30???

Our little local utilities has big diesels they use for peaking units. They rarely ever use them because my area is surrounded my large public power plants that send power all over the grid. They generally lost money running them, it cost more to run them than the revenue they bring in. At least they use too. A couple years ago the price for a short time, because peak use went up, AVERAGED $9000 per MWH… Using that number ($5.45) it would have be $435 to take that trip 200 mile trip. It had been a few years now, and I can recall what the peak was, I think it was over 20,000+ per MWH. It was from a big ice storm in Texas in 2020. You would not have wanted to plug an electric car in at that time. Point to point, a full recharge would have been several thousand dollars. Utilities have a few details to work out before everyone is running battery power stuff charged off the grid.

Diesel price per gallon doesnt need to be where it is but thats another story........

[Trevor78]

They are ugly. That's the end of my interest in them. I don't feel threatened by them so I don't bring them up.