[Pontiguy70]

Hey guys,

Does a car built by Pontiac and used as a zone or brass hat car have any more value than one that is not? Or is it just an interesting side note.

I have a 70 GTO conv that is such a car. While it is very nicely equipped, it does not have any ultra rare options or RA engine.

Just curious what others think.

Thanks

[Formulabruce]

Probably has some more historical value than same car with no story at all.
The ones we set up or had visit were Not usually a performance model as they didn't want ANY drive ability issues, and didn't trust the zone managers either to not abuse the cars.
Common and profitable options usually are on these cars with more of them than usual.
Older zone managers often turned in the car at a local to them dealer, and many tried to buy, or did buy the car. We repainted 2 such cars to a different color after bought by the manager who liked the car and hated the Gold. Or silver color.

[Pontiguy70]

These are the invoices mentioned before. There are 2 slightly different layouts. Maybe it is as Baron was saying. Just a difference between copies 1,2, 3, etc.
The first 2, a 1972 GTO and the 70 that started this post, have a 4 row tally on the lower right and some other differences in the lower rows. The second 2, another 70 GTO conv and a 70 Lemans, have 2 rows of info above the dealer name.
The 72 GTO was the first PHS I ever got.....about 25 years ago. Have no idea why they blacked it all out like an area 51 document.

[johnta1]

The PHS at top of thread has the zone code 24 997. This usually has more than one 'PHS'.
The other PHS' you posted don't have that.

But the one from 1972 Baron would be interested in I'm sure.
(I am anyway)

It is a WW5 GTO!

The blacked out stuff was when it was given out free from Pontiac. They obfuscated the stuff they didn't want shown.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Originally Posted by Pontiguy70

Maybe it is as Baron was saying. Just a difference between copies 1,2, 3, etc.

Your 70 GranadaGold would have had a completely different invoice generated for it each time it took another use in a different department.
Starting with the First Invoice right after it was built in Jan 1970.
And dated as such (Jan 1970)
You do not have that one - but it may still be in the archives - You Will Have To Ask Jim Mattison To Look.
That is what i am pointing out.

We (PY Forums) have seen this type instance many times already through the years.
And we always send them back to Jim
Some get lucky - some don't.
Some just have the 1st Invoice left in archive - some just have the Last One.
Some have another one - or two - in between.

The subsequent Invoices would have different dates etc ... and different infos in the lower ledger.
We call these Multi-Invoice cars.
Some cars have had as many as 3 or 4 completely different invoices with different dates / departments / etc ...

Your GranadaGold car is a multi-invoice car
But you only have the last invoice , so far.

Don't let formatting differences of other invoices be a distraction

The 72 GTO was the first PHS I ever got.....about 25 years ago. Have no idea why they blacked it all out like an area 51 document.

In the mid-to-late 80's you could get those for free by calling 1-800-PONTIAC on any 1969-Newer Pontiac.
Dealer Pricing and Key Codes were blobbed out

There is a special thread for WW5 cars in the 70-72 section.
Would be great if you could post any known info about that car into that thread.
Not a whole lot of them are still accounted for.

[TAKerry]

For me that adds little value. Yes may be an interesting side note.

[DaleO]

When Jim Wangers liquidated some of his cars I remember one being a TA and I think it wasn't an out of line price at all. I don't remember how much though.

Maybe if John Z. it would add noticeably more ?

[Simple Man]

What shows that it was an exec's car?

[Pontiguy70]

The PHS docs show it is a 5% car. Also, even though it is a 1970, it was not sold through a dealer until 1971. As I understand it, if the build sheet says 5 PCT on it, it is some kind of company car?
I will try to scan a post a copy of it.

[Pontiguy70]

Yeah, I figured the 72 would get some attention

[Pontiguy70]

Build sheet

["QUICK-SILVER"]

Originally Posted by Pontiguy70

The PHS docs show it is a 5% car. Also, even though it is a 1970, it was not sold through a dealer until 1971. As I understand it, if the build sheet says 5 PCT on it, it is some kind of company car?
I will try to scan a post a copy of it.

Originally Posted by Pontiguy70

Build sheet

That document would be a dealer invoice that shows how much they (the dealer) owes to GMAC.

Most likely a dealer transfere with the 71 dates. Cross your fingers on that. GMAC did give % discounts on money owed after X amount of time when a new car doesn't sale.

Did your PHS packett include a copy of the original delivery invoice?

Clay

[Simple Man]

Originally Posted by Pontiguy70

Build sheet

I always wonder that about my 68 GTO.Built 12/67. didn't go to a dealer, but shipped to engineering. Loaded with just about every available 68 option. Brass hat? Maybe.

[Rocky Rotella]

Notice that it was up for bid and sold to that dealer for the bid price of $2,300? At an invoice cost of half, that likely indicates lots of miles or some type of heavy use or damage while it was under Pontiac’s ownership.

Could this have been a promotional car? Or possibly one used on a television or movie?

[Pontiguy70]

Rocky,

The movie thing is a great thought being that the dealer is in Los Angeles. What gets me is the shipped date of 3/25/71. Why would an executive hold on to a car so far in to the next model year. Does anyone know what the BH-15 is?

[padgett]

Were two different ones. First was the broadcast sheet often found on top of the gas tank or in the rear seat and are what is shown here. Second is the billing record shown below. All of this began with Pete McCarthy's SD list but expanded thanks to the efforts of a number of Pontiac employees (John, Fred) who managed to save the records when the corporation was going to dispose of them. That effort later became PHS.

[Rocky Rotella]

With a ship date that late, I don't think it was executive owned. Usually, they only kept them a few thousand miles and they wouldn't have been sold for approximately half the value. That's where the 5% discount (and sometimes more with additional miles) comes into play.

I suspect the lots of miles, wear/tear, or damage of some sort led to the low bid price.

[U47]

I have a 62 Catalina that I bought from the original owner. When I bought it the car was still in it's original paint and interior. I searched high and low for the broadcast sheet. In the restoration process of disassembly I thought it was non existent, that is until I took the headliner down. There it was stuck between the headliner bow and the roof!

[padgett]

Zone cars (supposed to have at least 500 miles) or Class A discounts were significant but the cars were just sold as used cars, nothing special unlike the cars given to celebrities (assorted Sinatras received many) as prmos.

These were common in the 90's though do not know how far into this century that lasted.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

What you have is an Invoice , not a Build Sheet.

Start with re-contacting PHS and see if any of the earlier Invoices are still on file.
You have to ask specifically about possible other existing invoices and explain why.
Preferably speak or email directly to Jim Mattison
Some are - and some are not - it is hit & miss.
This is at least Invoice #2 , but it could be #3 or #4.
It is the Final Invoice in its paper trail , is all we can say for sure.

Next step is to drop the gas tank and hope for a Build Sheet.
That will tell how the car was tagged or intended - when ordered/built.
There could be other "found" Bsheet locations on 70's built at Fremont, you could ask in the 70-72 section about that.

With 24 - 997 it was under the Fremont Plant Umbrella - not a Zone type scenario. But of course they also had Brass there who got cars every 3months/3,000miles.

SP we call Special Bid or Sealed Proxy .... supposedly highest bid wins/buys.

GranadaGold with Sandalwood Buckets and DarkGold Top was not a hard sale color combo in 1970 , or today.

Your car had extended length use and likely high miles too.
There are at least 20 probable possible scenarios behind that.
Extended Testing by Engineering Dept (longer term observations) seems the best answer , but not necessarily the right answer.

Most movie/TV cars were sold (mucho discount) - or given - to the studios as promotional consideration/exposure.
I am not very sure they would have put them on loan to studios for extended length and let them run past into next model year as a loaner.

Some cars took 2 or 3 different tours of duties while under factory issue.

Good Luck with finding more of the paper trail