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#101
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And I wouldn't mind trying a set of the Crane's sometime. I always liked Crane products back before they disappeared for a while. |
#102
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One of the issues some have with the Morels is that the incorrect preload is used. Just to clarify, it's not the same for iron block/iron heads as it is with iron block/aluminum heads.
http://www.johncalliesinc.com/pdf/Ad...licLifters.pdf Cast Iron block and Cast Iron Head = .020" - .025" Cast Iron block and Aluminum Head = .030" - .035" Aluminum block and Aluminum Head = .045" - .050" Since they have a short travel, if you go past a full turn on a 7/16 stud, guess what? So that may be part of the 'bad rap' they get. .
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. 1970 GTO Judge Tribute Pro-Tour Project 535 IA2 http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=760624 1971 Trans Am 463, 315cfm E-head Sniper XFlow EFI, TKO600 extreme, 9", GW suspension, Baer brakes, pro tour car https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...ght=procharger Theme Song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zKAS...ature=youtu.be |
#103
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. 1970 GTO Judge Tribute Pro-Tour Project 535 IA2 http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=760624 1971 Trans Am 463, 315cfm E-head Sniper XFlow EFI, TKO600 extreme, 9", GW suspension, Baer brakes, pro tour car https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...ght=procharger Theme Song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zKAS...ature=youtu.be |
#104
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I will say though, I've never had any issues with Crane products so that gives me at least a small comfort level. If I could compare oil band heights that would help. I don't mind the cost factor, I'll gladly pay more for something if it works better. I learned that lesson a long time ago. |
#105
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Yeah, that's basically what I was saying, if I knew they were better and worked, I too would gladly pay twice as much. But if I'm going to take a 'chance', I might as well try the Johnsons.
In my case, I KNOW it wasn't a 'user install issue', so there's really no excuse for my failure. .
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. 1970 GTO Judge Tribute Pro-Tour Project 535 IA2 http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=760624 1971 Trans Am 463, 315cfm E-head Sniper XFlow EFI, TKO600 extreme, 9", GW suspension, Baer brakes, pro tour car https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...ght=procharger Theme Song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zKAS...ature=youtu.be |
#106
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Oh I would for sure recommend the Johnsons. I know them to be trouble free and work as intended.
My issue with them was that the last 2 Pontiac rollers I did recently, the Johnsons weren't available and there was no ETA either. They run them in batches and when they run out, we have to wait until another batch is run. Paul was on top of that deal for me hoping they would run another batch before the time came to button these engines up, but he had already been waiting several months at that point with no ETA. So I ended up going with the Shaver version of Comps I bought from Paul K, and the other set was a brand that Paul C recommended for the other build I was doing (forget the brand now but they aren't Comps as Paul C does not like them) So far both of those engines are quiet and work nicely. So if Paul says the Johnsons are available now, I'm tempted to snatch a set now to keep for a future build. Or I may just try the Cranes. |
#107
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#108
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My old engine builder (Retired) always used Johnson flat cam lifters. I had a freshly rebuilt 455 with a RAIV cam and Johnson lifters. I had a couple of ticking lifters. I took them all apart one at a time and washed them out with solvent. Quiet as can be from then on. It only takes a piece of fly sh!t in there to make them tick I think. Unfortunately, you can't get the plunger out of the rollers that I know of.
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#109
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How much is a set of Hylift Johnson hydraulic roller lifters for a Pontiac?
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1964 Catalina 2+2 4sp, 421 Tri-power 1965 GTO, Roadster Shop chassis, 461, Old Faithful cam, KRE heads 305 CFM, Holley EFI, DIS ignition. 1969 GTO 467, Edelbrock 325 CFM, Terminator EFI 1969 Firebird Convertible |
#110
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Are the Johnsons Butler sells diff from Hilift Johnsons?Seems like Johnsons are the ones most reccomended between the two?Johnson makes a few diff Pontiac hyd roller lifters like Morel does?Tom
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#111
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#112
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Yes, the ones Butler sells are the same Johnson lifters. They make a standard and a short travel, most go for the short travel. Think they used to make a 'race' one too, but not sure if they still do. Can't open Butler's site at the moment to check. Not sure, but think the HyLift are a different manufacturer, think there was some confusion on that topic, but don't recall the specifics. .
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. 1970 GTO Judge Tribute Pro-Tour Project 535 IA2 http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=760624 1971 Trans Am 463, 315cfm E-head Sniper XFlow EFI, TKO600 extreme, 9", GW suspension, Baer brakes, pro tour car https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...ght=procharger Theme Song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zKAS...ature=youtu.be |
#113
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Hilift IS a diff company!Tom
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#114
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(Still that's just $300 more than the Comp 857's which seem to be the "lifter of doom". Would cost more than $300 to rectify the problems caused by failure as in post #1 .)
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"No replacement for displacement!" GTOAA--https://www.gtoaa.org/ Last edited by 1968GTO421; 10-20-2019 at 08:54 PM. |
#115
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Not sure what's going on at Crane, but they don't list half the grinds they used to, as well as some other parts. But i used to use Crane as a go-to for cams & lifters back in the day.
Just to touch another point about 'tickers', some try to set idle speeds way to low, like 550-650 rpm, and due to low oil psi at those idle speeds, they get tickers. You can't use OE specs on a non-OE setup, period. .
__________________
. 1970 GTO Judge Tribute Pro-Tour Project 535 IA2 http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=760624 1971 Trans Am 463, 315cfm E-head Sniper XFlow EFI, TKO600 extreme, 9", GW suspension, Baer brakes, pro tour car https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...ght=procharger Theme Song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zKAS...ature=youtu.be |
#116
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Hyd rollers ? What are some examples of trouble free street miles on them. How long are they good for ? If I build this engine I am gathering parts for and want to go on a old school long trip do I have to worry about a lifter taking out my engine ?
Might be better off to get a custom SFT and run it with good oil. Can I get a few examples of trouble free mileage ? I believe my 1991 Chevy truck V6 came from the factory with a hyd roller cam. Never had a issue with it. |
#117
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I know Dave Sober(Torqjunki) took a set of Comps early ones apart that had all kinds of crap on the inside.
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Skip Fix 1978 Trans Am original owner 10.99 @ 124 pump gas 455 E heads, NO Bird ever! 1981 Black SE Trans Am stockish 6X 400ci, turbo 301 on a stand 1965 GTO 4 barrel 3 speed project 2004 GTO Pulse Red stock motor computer tune 13.43@103.4 1964 Impala SS 409/470ci 600 HP stroker project 1979 Camaro IAII Edelbrock head 500" 695 HP 10.33@132 3595lbs |
#118
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Crane Cams has been purchased by Comp Cams. You can't necessarily count on your brand name favorites.
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GOOD IDEAS ARE OFTEN FOUND ABANDONED IN THE DUST OF PROCRASTINATION |
#119
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Thanks Ken, I knew something like that happened.
Dragncar- I've seen at least 2 instances of the Morels go over 100k miles on medium-type performance builds, and I have that Olds that has over 30k on it with Morels. (which uses Pontiac type lifters). I know of a couple folks around here that run the Morels, not Pontiacs, but they I know have driven on them for a number of years, not sure of the total miles, but certainly the two that come to mind drive them a lot, and must be at least 30-50k miles. I will ask when I get a chance exactly how many miles. As stated previously, you can't go by new cars as an example, due to the level of performance they're built from the factory, and the cam profiles they uses, not an apples-to-apples thing. I will have somewhat of an example by next summer, I plan on driving my car everywhere, so once it's shaken out, I will do weekend and week long trips with it. I will give feedback then. Solid roller is a different story, I've had 2 high mile examples, one was 225k+, the other @90k miles, neither had issues. The 225k one I did a top end freshen, valve job, seals etc, and it pitched a rod at 225K. One was Lunati solid roller and the other Crower HIPPOs. If I have trouble with this set of Morels I'm installing this week, I will go back to solid rollers. .
__________________
. 1970 GTO Judge Tribute Pro-Tour Project 535 IA2 http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=760624 1971 Trans Am 463, 315cfm E-head Sniper XFlow EFI, TKO600 extreme, 9", GW suspension, Baer brakes, pro tour car https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...ght=procharger Theme Song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zKAS...ature=youtu.be |
#120
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After setting that one up correctly with 150 lbs. seat pressure, and a new set of Comp lifters, it's been together for about 15-16 years now, never had a valve cover off since and runs perfect. I had several LS engines with factory rollers. One was my wifes daily, and at 60k miles it got a custom Crane cam in it and a set of double springs, pushrods etc.. but I reused the original lifters. I spun that to 6700 regularly and my wife continued to put another 70k miles on that engine and still ran perfect when sold. A 455 I put together for my father about 15 years ago, also had Comp hydraulic rollers in it. That one ran perfect for about 5 years and he drove it 2-3 days a week, to work and cruises etc... and the car ran mid 11's. Snapped an oil pump shaft and killed the short block. Cam and lifter cam out perfect. I have no qualms about using them again in a future build. My sons little fox body is going on 246 or 248,000 miles now (can't remember which) with it's original roller lifters. Like I've said before, I think the major failures are pretty few and far between for guys like us. Engine builders see it more obviously since they build 100's of engines a year. Quite honestly I don't worry all that much about it. If the valve train is setup properly, correct spring pressures etc.. I don't see why a good set of hydraulic rollers wouldn't give years of faithful service. |
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