[Bigred455]

My '63 Star Chief makes a weird noise when cranking, hard to describe somewhere between a rubbing and grinding noise. I had the starter rebuilt as the main shaft was severely worn. I thought that might cure the noise, but no luck. I pulled the 2 inspection covers off of the transmission torque converter and found the ring gear is fairly chewed up. The teeth all appear to be intact but have significant wear on the face and the drive side.

It looks like the ring gear bolts to the torque converter. I cannot find a diagram or replacement gear to confirm this, is my suspicion correct?

Seems like my options to fix this are as follows
1. Replace the gear, do replacement gears exist?
2. Replace the gear with a used gear.
3. File all the teeth in place and hope for the best.
4. Pull the trans and flip the ring gear front to back.

I really like the transmission as this car is purely a cruiser and it is very smooth. If I had a block mounted starter I would probably go to a T400, but I'm not interested in buying an adapter to make that work. Everything on this car is leaking underneath hard to tell what is trans oil, engine oil and power steering. The inside of the bell housing does look dry though, if I pull it out I will replace the tail shaft seal, anything else in particular I should do if the trans is out?

THANKS!

[Goatracer1]

The gear is on an ordinary flex plate similar to the one used with a Turbo 400 or 350. They do not interchange though. Someone on here should have one. I did but don't know if it's still kicking around.

[Bigred455]

Originally Posted by Goatracer1

The gear is on an ordinary flex plate similar to the one used with a Turbo 400 or 350. They do not interchange though. Someone on here should have one. I did but don't know if it's still kicking around.

Unless I am misunderstanding what you mean, it is not like an ordinary flexplate. This one uses a flex plate that does not have the actual ring gear on it. The ring gear is bolted to the perimeter of the TC with 12(?) bolts and the ring gear bolts using every other of those bolts as well.

[77 TRASHCAN]

There are antique transmission supply businesses. Might look in Hemmings for sources. I had a 64 Benneville with same transmission.
You might look for that transmission mount, I think I made a later one work with a piece of angle iron. Those transmissions do not have a torque converter. They have something that looks just like a torque converter, called a Torus, if I'm remembering. Get any related seals you might need and maybe spares. The body of the torus is sealed to the foe plate (they are actually bolted together). There's a triangular (cross section shape, that is) that seals them together, get a spare one or two of them also.

I hope it all works out. I liked that trans also. Wish I still had that car!!!

[mechanickeith]

Steve Barcak should have one. steve@pontiacheaven.org 480-899-7873

[pfilean]

Kind of hard to tell by the pictures in my shop manual but there is one picture that makes it look like the ring gear is part of the torque convertor, Looks like maybe every other bolt around the torque convertor bolts to the flex plate. You would need to take out those bolts to remove the transmission. Not like we are accustomed to seeing on later transmissons. There we some companies that specialize in the older stuff that you may need. Fatsco is one that comes to mind.

[stevep]

The ring gear is part of the torque converter (fluid coupling) and it is removable on the transmission as it is held on but nuts.
1961-1963 Super Hydramatic is the same.
1964 looks similar but will cause damage if you use it!

[stevep]

Originally Posted by Goatracer1

The gear is on an ordinary flex plate similar to the one used with a Turbo 400 or 350. They do not interchange though. Someone on here should have one. I did but don't know if it's still kicking around.

This is not correct info!

[Goatracer1]

Sorry if I fxxxed up its been a while since I look at it.

[77 TRASHCAN]

LOL, The trans we are speaking of is a completely different animal. The piece that has the "ring" gear on it is part of the torus (looks like a torque converter...). The rest of the torus is essentially a large bundt cake pan (in shape). They bolt together to form the torus. There's an odd shaped "O" ring the seals them, its not a circular shape. I replaced that ring on my 64 Bonne...a fun job...

[389]

That fly wheel is replaceable. I would defiantly keep that transmission unless you plan on drag racing and need to hold second longer then 4600 rpm..
I had a couple of them here but sold them to the local transmission shop.. . The Super Hydramatic transmission does not have a torque converter, that's why the 3.97 first gear.. They have a real cool way of grounding third and fourth gears and at low speeds, they lug the engine like a standard shift car.. They are pretty strong too, I had one behind a pretty strong 455 once... I used to know the shifting circuits and was going to modify the valve body of one but to much machine shop time meant $$$$. Why bother when you have a dream transmission like the Turbo 400.

Just put a new flywheel in. Franks Pontiac Parts should have a fly wheel...

[U47]

Originally Posted by 389

That fly wheel is replaceable. I would defiantly keep that transmission unless you plan on drag racing and need to hold second longer then 4600 rpm..
I had a couple of them here but sold them to the local transmission shop.. . The Super Hydramatic transmission does not have a torque converter, that's why the 3.97 first gear.. They have a real cool way of grounding third and fourth gears and at low speeds, they lug the engine like a standard shift car.. They are pretty strong too, I had one behind a pretty strong 455 once... I used to know the shifting circuits and was going to modify the valve body of one but to much machine shop time meant $$$$. Why bother when you have a dream transmission like the Turbo 400.

Just put a new flywheel in. Franks Pontiac Parts should have a fly wheel...

Controlled Coupling HydraMatic can be made to hold 2nd and 3rd longer and also shift harder. Harder especially the 3-4

[Poncho60]

U47...you keep bringing up the mods to improve the shifting of the Super Hydro, but as I understand from past posts the details of the required mods have been lost over time or nobody can remember them anymore. So why bring it up?

[U47]

The mods on the controlled dual coupling hydro were things you had to do yourself like experimenting with the governor, pressure regulator, and modifying the valves on the small fluid coupling. The trans was designed not to be able to hold the 1-2 shift, but you really didn't need to because 2nd came up so fast and that 2nd gear ratio was 2.55 anyway which is still lower than a T-400 1st gear. By spring of 1959 my dad's 59 Catalina was already modified in this way. After the mods you would never get that lazy fill to four gear.

I think what you heard about was kits to hold these transmissions in gear longer probably came from the Controlled Coupling's younger brother the Roto HydraMatic. Royal Pontiac actually had a kit to modify and hold the shifts. The main modification was to install springs and stack height on the Oil Pump Pressure regulator. It worked very well on Roto. I've read the instructions from the kit. For some reason I thought it was posted here on the forum.

[Bigred455]

This is good info, thank you to all. I ended up filing the ring gear teeth as a first option. My starter had also failed again. Apparently the snout bushing was worn out and when they replaced it previously the id was not small enough for the od of the bushing and it caused the new bushing to prematurely wear. I am going to source a new starter and then reassess if I need to go further into the ring gear.

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by U47

I think what you heard about was kits to hold these transmissions in gear longer probably came from the Controlled Coupling's younger brother the Roto HydraMatic. Royal Pontiac actually had a kit to modify and hold the shifts. The main modification was to install springs and stack height on the Oil Pump Pressure regulator. It worked very well on Roto. I've read the instructions from the kit. For some reason I thought it was posted here on the forum.

I'm pretty sure it was posted here sometime in the past (it may have even been by me, I don't remember. ) There was a short article in Hot Rod magazine back then that outlined the procedure.

[Poncho60]

I was not posting about the Roto. What I was getting at was that there's almost no one that really knows their way around the Super hydro anymore, and there's no specific details about the mods needed to improve the performance. IMO then the fact that your dad was successful back in the day by experimenting is an interesting historical fact but that's it. Not trying to be jerk, just probably interpreted your comments wrong. Sorry about that. RA

[MarkS57]

Originally Posted by U47

I think what you heard about was kits to hold these transmissions in gear longer probably came from the Controlled Coupling's younger brother the Roto HydraMatic. Royal Pontiac actually had a kit to modify and hold the shifts. The main modification was to install springs and stack height on the Oil Pump Pressure regulator. It worked very well on Roto. I've read the instructions from the kit. For some reason I thought it was posted here on the forum.

Sounds about right. AWWAAAY back in the 70's I spoke to a good transmission guy about stiffening the shifts of my 4 spd super hydramatic and that's pretty much what he quoted after his diatribe about it being a real PIA. He wasn't that much older than me- putting him about in his late 60's now. The 1-2 shift was mighty quick as mentioned.

Attached is an image I found of the area of concern, it shows the flex plate bolted to the coupling with the ring gear and referenced 12 bolts in view. I haven't seen this myself in about 45 years.

[Poncho60]

The 1-2 shift was very fast in stock form. No mods needed to get that!

[389]

The spring pressure needs to be raised in two locations. If we had a valve body circuit chart I could show you. Its a royal pain because every time you need to tweak it, you have to pull everything apart.. If you use the governor to the 421 tri power HO motor that goes in the 63-64 Bonneville, it will raise the second to third shift point..

There was a guy called Sweeny who used to build and race them here in Mars Pa.. He built them to shift manually.