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Old 12-31-2011, 02:50 PM
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Default where i came from?

i got on this site cause i'm a pontiac freak & i wanted to share in all the good info. but when i added my well intentioned 2 cents worth, i got some flack. several seem to want to know just who i am, what i've ever done & why i think i have a right to give any info to people who allready know more than me. if your not interested please just move on to another thread. i harbor no ill will towards anyone! if i have offended anyone in any way i apologize. please forgive! it is not my intention to badmouth or disrespect anyone in any way. i did not come on here to bare my soul-- but i guess inquiring minds want to know, so here goes, this is my story. i'm posting this on the street thread cause thats where my story begins. the 1960's & 70's was a great time to be young & alive in this country. almost magical. when i think back on it i say "wow that was great". then at times i think " did that really happen?" then i go to a car show & see all the old muscle cars & remember when these old cars used to prowl the streets. on a friday or saturday nite it was like a parade of every kind of muscle car there was. i remember the 1st goat in our town- red '64 3x2 4sp. it was love at 1st site-- it was the greatest thing i'd ever seen! i bought the 45rpm record " lil gto" & played it over & over every day til my family was sick of it. from that time on it was never a ? of if, but when i'd own my very own gto! more to come.

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Old 12-31-2011, 03:31 PM
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Default where i came from? part2

for the 1965 model year pontiac put out some pr posters of the new gto. there were several colors & poses. i heard about it & ordered a whole set. they were beautiful! i hung them on the walls of my room. sometimes i would just stand in front of them & stare at each one. sometimes when i went to bed i'd leave the lite on & stare at them til i went to sleep. then an area pontiac dealer started runnin gto ads with big tigers in different poses. i collected e'm all. it wasn't long til my room was wallpapered with goats. i had many dreams of driving a '65 4sp goat up the road from my house. i vowed that my 1st car would be a gto. but at that time the best i could do was borrow my dads gmc pick-up & go to town to watch the parade. & what a parade it was--'65 gto 3x2 4sp lite blue,'66 gto 3x2 4sp black, bb chevelles, camaros, '68 bird 400 4sp red, mopars of every type- even a hemi-charger, mustangs & other fords, 442's-- round & round the loop they went, barkin the tires when the law wasn't lookin. what a show! & i parked in the bowling alley parking lot right next to the highway so i'd have a front row seat. we'd listen to elvis, the beach boys, jan & dean & all the good rock & roll groups on the am radio til a car with loud pipes came through. then we'd listen as they slowly loped around the parking lot & back onto the highway. we always hoped they'd burn some rubber & grab some gears. they usually would if they new their fans were watching. yah it was great & i was there-- it really happened- i'm a witness.

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Old 12-31-2011, 04:18 PM
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Default where i came from? part 3

fast forward now to 1969. i'm in college now & working at a pizza joint all the hours i can. i decided the time had come. its time for my gto! so i looked around & found a clean '65 4sp lite blue- $1500. my boss was a good man & liked to help the college kids when he could. i told him what i wanted to do & he gave me some good advice. he asked " your not going to leave me are you?" well i liked the job & i loved pizza (we could eat all we wanted every day--i did) so i wasn't planing to quit. he said "why don't you buy a new car instead of that used one?" he reasoned that the notes wouldn't be much higher cause they'd finance it longer & i'd have a new car instead of a used 1 that might have problems. god bless "Mr. Joe". i took his advice & went straight to the pontic dealer. they had a new judge on display. i'd read some about 'em so i said that's what i want. but i said " i aint gonna drive around in no haloween orange car even if it is a goat. what other colors can i get?" he went inside & asked his boss & said that was the only color availabe at that time. i said "well can i get the same motor & ram air stuff in a regular gto in a different color?" the answer was yes so we dug into the options list & built my 1st & only new car. silver with black interior, ra3, 4sp, 3.90 gears, hood tach, fm radio, no air, manual steering. $3400 + change. notes $125 a month including ins. yah this was really happening. soon i'd be driving my very own gto! (ps) T.J. reminded me to be sure & tell ya'll i also ordered it with a bench seat so she could sit in the middle & shift. it worked out great. i'd mash the clutch & she'd snatch the gears.

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Old 12-31-2011, 04:53 PM
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Where are you from (geographically)?

K

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'63 LeMans Convertible
'63 Grand Prix
'65 GTO - original, unrestored, Dad was original owner, 5000 original mile Royal Pontiac factory racer
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My Pontiac Story: http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=560524
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Old 12-31-2011, 04:54 PM
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Default where i came from? part 4

about 6 weeks later i was driving down the 4 lane main drag just passed the pontiac place when i saw a car hauler with a load of pontiacs headed to the pontiac dealer. i spotted it imediately. there it was in the middle of the bottom row. My GTO! i made a u-turn as soon as i could, followed the truck & watched 'em unload the cars. i was like a kid at christmas & santa had brought me the car of my dreams! i talked to a salesman who told me they'd have to check it out in the shop before i could leave with it, so we finished up the paper work & soon there is was. he handed me the keys & i jumped in & drove off down the 4 lane. it was perfect, everything felt just right, like it was made just for me. i only made 2 changes-- a hurst t-handle & the widest tires i could find for the back- i think they were h-70's. the wider stuff like n-50's weren't around yet. i'd usually go back to our little home town at least one day of the week-end to be part of the muscle car parade. i'd watched 'em do it for years so i new just what to do-- lope slowly through the bowling alley parking lot, then pull out onto the 4-lane keeping a sharp eye out for the law. if the coast was clear i'd pop the clutch & bark the tires,then get some 2nd gear rubber, then ease it into 4th & lope slowly up the hill passed the dairy queen. it was a great time to be alive & i'm glad i got to be a part of it!

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Old 12-31-2011, 05:20 PM
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Too bad you didn't spend the extra $389.00 for the RA IV - only an extra $11/month over 36 months.

Cool story, keep it coming.

BTW, welcome to the board.

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Old 12-31-2011, 05:36 PM
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Default where i came from part 5

fast forward again to 1973. i'd been to the local drag strip & i just knew i had to do that. so i learned all i could about it, put in a new clutch & flywheel, got some m&h racemasters(hard street tires- slicks weren't legal yet), had some downpipes made for the ra3 manifolds(they stepped up to 3" tubes & looked like headers from the bottom) & i was ready to race! i'd seen that lots of guys used tow bars to get their cars to the track so when i took the goat off the street i bought an old "68 cadilac(it was huge) to use for a tow car. it had a 472 motor & plenty of room in the trunk for jack,tires,tools & stuff. i had a good hitch installed, bought a good tow bar, had brackets welded to the frame rails & i was ready to go. i still remember those butterflies i'd get every time we'd get close to the track-- pre-race jitters i guess you'd say. it was similar to what i felt before a big basketball game but bigger,better, this was something really special --its something i'll never forget! at the track i jacked'er up, put the m&h tires on, warmed it up then headed for the staging lanes. they put me in d-stock. i thought "i'll probably have to run some bb chevelles, but thats allright, i've beat em before i can do it again." it only took 1 pass rowin through the gears & i knew this is what i was born to do ! gotta go for now

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Old 01-01-2012, 11:58 AM
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Default more of where i came from part 6

i live in the bayou country of north la 10 miles north of dugdemona bayou near beautiful caney lake -- former home of 14lb record bass my first season of racing was loads of fun. i learned a lot & got some good experience. our home track was running stock,ss & street modified. there was no such thing as bracket racing. that brings up a ? for some of you older guys. do you remember what year et bracket racing started in your area? i wonder if it might have started sooner in some parts of the country then took a while to filter down to little podunk tracks like ours. or was it something nhra came up with & it started all over the country at the same time? i ran d stock & won my class almost every week. they gave a trophy for class win & a bigger 1 for overall win. i soon had a room full of trophies. we finally had so many trophies we talked the track owners into giving us $5 instead of a trophy. later T.J. sold several to a neighbor so he could brag to his girlfriends. we ran off track records, so i set mine so low nobody else in my class could touch it. it was even lower than the c stock record held by a stage 1 455 buick. i ran some on an airport runway-- no lites, just a flagman. spots were given as so many feet head start. the short ones were marked off. they guessed at the long ones. a pinto won several races so they put a bounty on him. his spot was 410ft (estimated of course) on me. i beat him & we never saw him again. when an airplane wanted to land we stopped the race & when he was out of the way we'd fire'em back up.

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Old 01-01-2012, 02:13 PM
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Default T.J.'s gonna race?

1974 was purty much more of the same til late in the season when T.J. surprised me by saying " if i'm gonna be here anyway i mite a well race too". well that was fine with me. but she could'nt see over the dash or reach the pedals in the ole goat so we decided on a '68 bird. we found a clean body on a lot in a nearby town. it was a 350 2bl with problems. but the price was rite $350. aah those were the days! i pulled the motor out of the goat, bought a junkyard th400 for $100 & stuck it all in the bird. the rear was a 1 wheeler probably a 2.73 or 3.08. our local junkyard had 1 he said was a 4.11 posi $150. he was rite about the posi but it was 3.23. oh well there have been liars in all generations. that shows just how little i knew at that time. i had no idea how to tell a gear ratio & absolutely nobody to tell or teach me any thing -- i was on my own. the whole process was a learning experience. but i was eager to learn, i had already tasted the thrill of victory & wasn't about to quit now! the car was under geared & had a stock converter so it was over a second slower than the goat. but it got T.J. started & she got some of those beginner mistakes behind her. '75 would be a different year.

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Old 01-01-2012, 02:38 PM
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Default part 8 come out swingin

i got an nhra rule book & started asking ? this time i asked the rite people & got the rite answers. got a sheet from nhra with all the legal specs for our cars. found a machine shop that had built pontiac class racer motors. found out about stall converters( i'd never even heard of a stall converter) bought a 9" converter(vitar was a big name at that time) bought us a lunati cheater cam. then i made another dummy mistake. the rule said pontiac oem cast pistons only. but gm was out til they could run off another batch, so i just bought a set from napa. big mistake. i was told later that the only cast piston at the time nearly as good as gm was sterling brand. of course i'd never heard that name. anyway the machine shop got it together before the season started so i stuffed it in the bird & got it runnin. it was time to race so we just shot it with primer and loaded it up. They made headers legal that year and we found a used set of Hookers for it. They also made 9" slicks legal so we bought a new set. When we made it to the track we really didn't know what to expect. But the converter, cam, gears and slicks seemed to be the right combo. She won the first four races with no problem and the first two at another track. Then the problems started.

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Old 01-01-2012, 02:47 PM
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Default Part 9 A few bumps in the road

TJ won the 5th race in a row, but by now the non-Pontiac competitors (all of em) were tired of getting beat by a Pontiac and to add insult to injury, it was a female driver. Thru the years we saw em fume and cuss and sling wrenches and gravel while loading on the trailer after a whuupin' from TJ's early bird. (The hi-dollar Chevy boys were the worst) It finally got so bad we started staying away from our local track if there was a race anywhere else close. Anyhow, back to this 5th race, we were protested. My feeling was "Tear it down if you want to." I knew the only thing that wasn't legal was the napa pistons and I figured since the tech guys were all Chevy boys they'd have no idea what a Pont. piston looked like. I guess they knew that, so instead they just put it on the scales. I assumed it weighed what the book said it was supposed to, since it wasn't stripped down at all. You see how little I knew? If i'd had anybody to help me they'da said "Hey man, you better weigh it, you may have to add some weight." So they said it was a few lbs. lite and disqualified us. Well, all the guys seemed very happy about that. But they knew that she had beat them far enough that a few lbs. wouldn't have made any difference. Experience can be a good teacher, but no fun sometimes.

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Old 01-01-2012, 02:56 PM
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Default Pt. 10 - More Bumps

I put a spare tire in the trunk and and made sure the tank was a least half full so if they weighed us it woulnd't be lite. And just as I thought, it didn't slow down a bit. At the 6th race she was well on her way to another win. She was running a Mopar - a Demon or Duster, I think. She had run him several times that year, he wasn't even close. I watched her leave the line, looked good, and no red, so I started back to the trailer. Then I heard somebody say she lost. I was thinking "Something must have broke." But she made it back to the trailer and when she got out of the car she had a sad look on her face and holding her head down she said, "I'm sorry! I forgot to release the parking brake." To keep it from rolling backwards at the end of the staging lanes she would mash the parking brake then release it when it was her turn to race. But this time she forgot. She said "It was close though, I almost won anyway." We've had many a good laff about that thru the years. Sometimes after that I would think to ask her if she had released it, but she never did that again. Pontiac finally got another batch of pistons in so I took everything to the machine shop and soon had the old Goat back on the track. It was doing ok, but then the napa pistons gave up in the Bird.

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Old 01-01-2012, 03:03 PM
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Default Pt. 11 - Ups and Downs

I forgot one incident that was interesting. At the track where we'd won the first 2 races, the Bird started missing real bad, so we lost the round. We decided to just load it up and watch the rest of the race. Then we heard over the loud speaker that they had classed a car wrong and were going to run the whole thing over. And when they got the field lined up they'd call us up. Well, we went to work. I jerked the intake and valley pan off and there was the problem. A lifter had come apart. I didn't have a spare, but all the parts were still lying there so I just put it back together and stuck it back in the hole, adjusted the rocker arm and buttoned everything back up. And just in the nick of time, they were calling us to the staging lanes. So TJ jumped back in, backed it off the trailer and headed to the lanes. Well, I reckon that was the only problem. It ran great and chalked up another victory. We never had anything like that happen again. If you lose you load it up and go home. But it actually did happen once. That reminds me, in case you run hydraulic lifters, never run the kind with a flimsy wire clip retainer. This incident points this out. Make sure you use the lifters with real snap ring retainers. After this incident we always bought Rhodes. There are probably other good brands also.

  #14  
Old 01-01-2012, 03:17 PM
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Default Pt 12 - More Downs

Now, back to the napa pistons. The Bird started slowing down and smokin a little. It would still beat most of em but definitely up to par. So I pulled it out and put the Goat motor in it. I could have left the cam in it, but there was a little difference and I didn't know if they would ever tear it down to check it or not. So I swapped cams and now it was perfectly legal. Looking back on it now I really don't think they would have torn into it at our track. That stuff only took place at point meets and nat. events. That reminds me of another shocker in my continuing education: We had never taken a car to a points meet so I had no idea what to expect. We didn't even get to unload. One of the tech guys saw us and realized immediately that we didn't have a clue what was going on! He walked around the cars, opened the doors and looked in, then he turned to us and started naming all the obvious reasons why we could not pass tech: A piece of chrome trim missing, radio hole not covered with metal, clutch fan of Bird (that motor came with factory flex fan like Goat). He said "Fix all this and we'll look at it a little closer." All the air left our balloon. Thank God, bracket racing was coming to tracks near us soon! Our stocker days were about over. The thrill was gone.

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Old 01-01-2012, 03:26 PM
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Default Pt. 13 - More Lessons Learned

With our stocker days behind us we made new plans. The early Bird was still running good so TJ said she wouldn't mind driving that car on the street. So I pulled the tranny and put her a 4-spd in it, some Thrush Hedder Muffs and swapped the 4.56 posi for a 3.23 1-wheeler. It made a nice street car. I guess some folks didn't understand what all the racing decals were about and it was purty loud! But she only got 1 $25 ticket for loud pipes. It was fun for a couple of years, til it got hit. But most of the parts lived to race again. And TJ moved on to a '73 455 4-spd TA for a street ride. It seems that the desire to go faster comes to all who race. I was no exception. Our local track ran a class I think was called Street Modified. They used the stock specs for wt. limits, then you divide your wt. by your cubic inches to determine the class. Of course this favors the small-cube, hi rpm Chevy. I had no business in that class, but the brackets were still a year away, so I decided to give it a shot. I had a '68 ragtop Bird, which could be heavier than a hardtop, so I got to work on it. Found a good used roller from an SS racer and took my block and stuff to a new machine shop in a nearby city. Huge mistake! They had a top fuel car, so they HAD to know what they were doing - right? WRONG! The roller motor made it almost thru 3 passes and the 350 blew up just backing out of the shop. Listen very carefully! Never have machine work done by anyone who has little or no experience working on Pontiac stuff!

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Old 01-01-2012, 03:34 PM
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Default Pt. 14 - Thank God for bracket racing!

For us, '76 was a disaster! I spent more $ trying to go faster than on all our stocker stuff in '75 and we never even made it thru the time trials. But good news was on the way. Stock, SS and St. Mod were history. For '77 we'll run ET brackets. Our track called em Pro and Super Pro, and they had Street for the slower cars. Each track set their own bracket times. They ranged from 11.99 to 13.99 break between the top two classes. Their was no such thing as an Electronics Class. That brings up a ?: Who knows when they first started running the Electronics Class? Well, '68 Birds were cheap ( I probably bought at least 15 - $300 was the most I paid) So I picked one out and started putting it together for TJ. We still had the motor from her street Bird, so i stuck it in but without the 9" converter. She took to it right away. She had already learned how to cut a good light and with a tite converter it was very consistent. She went right back to her winning ways. But it was another year of learning for me. I was introduced to the torque-monster 455. It looked just like the 400s I was used to, so I was not ready for what was to come. In my ignorance i reasoned "Since a Goat is heavier than a Bird, this motor should even things out." But I soon found out the 455 was in complete control of things - not me.

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Old 01-01-2012, 03:41 PM
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Default Pt. 15 - Trying to tame the monster

A friend had a '70 Goat with a 455. He told me one day that it started missing real bad and that he had bought a 400 from a junkyard and wanted me to change em out for him. I did and as he was leaving, "You can have that old 455 if you want it." So after he left I pulled the intake and valley cover. I'd seen this before. The only thing wrong with it was a lifter had come apart. So I replaced it and had the motor to put my Goat back together. Boy, I was like the lamb to the slaughter. I was the student and that monster was the teacher. First I used the cleanest looking TH400 I had out of a '68 Bird and some slicks I had on hand - 9". I used the stock converter so I reasoned that 9" would be plenty. Now, fast forward to the track... I do a fair burnout and stage. When I hit the gas it was like a funny car when they put too much clutch in it. It blew the tires away and the rear end started around and out my windshield I was staring at the grandstands. It probably didn't look that bad from outside but it felt bad inside. I caught it and puttered on down the track. For the next pass I did a real hard burnout. It spun bad, but stayed straight, so I ran it on up to 5 and shifted to 2nd - NOTHING! That monster ate my tranny!

  #18  
Old 01-01-2012, 03:44 PM
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Good reading!carry on...

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Old 01-01-2012, 03:49 PM
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Default Pt. 16 - Still Trying

WEll, just from that first outing I had gained a lot of respect for the monster. So I did some more reasoning. This thang might eat that 10-bolt rear end. I knew the BB Chevelles had 12-bolts and they were plentiful at that time so I got one. It was a 1-wheeler so I got a mini-spool for it. That should take care of the rear end. What about tires? I found a set of either 10- or 11". Now, what about the tranny? I'd heard about this new co. called TCI. I looked at their catalog and found a full comp TH400 with a reverse pattern valve body. It was high, but I figured that it would solve the tranny problem so I ordered it. OK, we're back at the track and I'm feeling purty good about the setup now. Maybe this time I have tamed the monster. - WRONG! The slicks did a little better than the 9" but still had lots of spin. Oh well, at least I don't have to worry about the tranny anymore - right? WRONG! Wind to 5 in 1st, shift to 2nd...NOTHING! This can't be happening - that moster just ate my hi-$ full comp TCI tranny! Then I finally had an intelligent thought. OK, there are cars with more power than mine that are NOT breaking. So why don't I find out what they're using. I found out that a local guy was building their tranny's, so I went to see him. He said TCI probably put a stock int. sprag in it, I needed one made for a 500 Cadillac motor. Well, that solved the tranny problem forevermore. Thank God!

  #20  
Old 01-01-2012, 03:58 PM
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Default Pt. 17 - One more hurdle

OK, I got everything fixed now but the tires. What to do? Well, do what worked last time. Go ask somebody. Find out what the quick cars are running. OK, they've got big tubs with 14 x 32's. Wow, there's no way to make em fit the Goat. Now, do some measuring. If I roll the top of the wheelwell opening a little I can make a 30" tall tire work. Look in the cat. The widest 30" tall tire is 13" wide. OK, let's do it. Then I look around for possible suspension mods. The SS Goats are running ladder bars, but that requires more $ and fabrication skills than I have. So what are the stocker boys using? Airbags with a little more air in the right bag. I can do that. E-Z to install. Now, that looks good on paper, but will it work? YES - Thank God! I can now make a full pass without spinning or breaking a tranny. But now I've spent most of the season trying to tame this monster. Now, I said all that to say this: If somebody would have told me all this before I tackled the monster, I coulda been racing all year and having fun instead of fighting this thang. That's why I wanta try to help anyone I can - so they can avoid my mistakes. You may think this is all just too dramatic. But I'll tell you, to me, it WAS dramatic at the time. No fun at all. But - life goes on.

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