[Carousel72TRed]

I have an instrument cluster (one I took off a junk 69 GTO many years ago that has 120 mph speedometer, an oil pressure gauge 0-80 PSI and a temperature gauge that is graduated but only says cold and hot. The rally gauges that are in my car have a 140 mph speedometer, oil pressure gauge 0-80 psi and a temperature gauge 100-250 degrees. My original gauge cluster has an idiot light for the temperature. Is the is the junk GTO instrument cluster a rally gauge and if it is not then they must have had a change during the model year changing to an idiot light for temperature?

[will slow gto]

I don’t think any 69 GTOs came with 140 mph speedos. My Oct 68 built GTO w/factory rally gauges have the 0 to 80 oil pressure and 100 to 250 water temp along with the 120 mph speedo.

[Carousel72TRed]

Thank you very much will slow gto. I looked in the Ames Performance book and the 69-72 Rally Gauge clusters only have a 120 mph speedometer as you stated. I did notice that Ames does not list any 68 GTO Rally gauges so I need to find out why mine has a 140 mph speedo. I am wondering if the 68 GTO's had Rally Gauges with a 140 mph speedo or if some Judge's might have come with a 140 mph speedo or my speedo faceplate is an old aftermarket one. I will have to research this further.
Thank You
Carousel72TRed

[OG68]

140 speedo was standard on the 70 and I think 71 models and all 69-72 GPs.
The 68 had a 120 mph speedo on the standard and Rally Gauge clusters.
And only the 68 Water Temp gauge had Cold Hot markings without the 100-250 temperature readout. 69 -72 had the 100-250 markings.
The idiot lights were on the standard gauge cluster with Oil Pressure, Gen and Water Temp as indicator lights for all years
And, the late 72 (Late Dec 71 depending on factory to the end of production) clusters have a seat belt warning light as a 1/2 year only part

68 clusters and radio had a steel blue gauge face while the 69-72 LeMans/GTO/GP were black.

My guess is that Ames doesn't carry the 68 cluster since it is a 'one year only' part and wouldn't sell well. The 69-72 all interchange.

[Carousel72TRed]

To OG 68,

Thank you very much for your reply to my inquiry. You have cleared up almost all of my questions on the Rally gauges. So in my car I have the 140 speedo Rally Gauge cluster which narrows it down to a 69-72 GP and since there's no seat belt warning it's down to a 69-71 GP. The other cluster I have with no markings on the temp. gauge is from a 68. Today I got on my back (again) and hit the back of my cluster in the temp. gauge area since it's been stuck at 250+ for a couple years hoping it might return to <100 degrees and that failed and now no needle at all. I know I can take my cluster in the car out and send it to JustDashes.com and they can fix it but if you know of a better alternative please let me know.

Thanks again
Carousel72TRed

[4zpeed]

That 140 speedo could also be from a 70-72 Tempest/Lemans/GTO, not sure about the seat belt warning light.

Peter Serio, owner of Precision Pontiac is a well known and trusted member here and could answer that.

He can also restore your cluster to like new condition, here are a few links to threads with relevant info.

If you'ed like to save any of these threads for future reference, click 'Thread Tools' up top and Subscribe.

https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...d.php?t=818158

https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...d.php?t=696769

https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...d.php?t=815059



Best of luck!
Frank

[Carousel72TRed]

Thank you very much 4zpeed. I now have all my answers on my 140 speedo cluster in my 69 GTO and my Rally Gauge cluster either came from a 69-71 GP or 70-71 GTO. Unfortunately for a couple years the temp. needle was stuck at 250+ when the car overheated and I crawled on my back and rapped on the back of the cluster in the temp. gauge area to try to unstick the needle and it fell off or was already off. So I am eventually going to get that fixed and will consider Peter Serio from Precision Pontiac. Do you know if the 68 cluster will work in my 69? I am asking because I may take the 68 cluster and send it to Peter and have him refurbish it and put the 69 faceplate on it. Also thanks to OG68.
Thanks again
Carousel 72TRed

[69gtocv]

Originally Posted by Carousel72TRed

Thank you very much 4zpeed. I now have all my answers on my 140 speedo cluster in my 69 GTO and my Rally Gauge cluster either came from a 69-71 GP or 70-71 GTO. Unfortunately for a couple years the temp. needle was stuck at 250+ when the car overheated and I crawled on my back and rapped on the back of the cluster in the temp. gauge area to try to unstick the needle and it fell off or was already off. So I am eventually going to get that fixed and will consider Peter Serio from Precision Pontiac. Do you know if the 68 cluster will work in my 69? I am asking because I may take the 68 cluster and send it to Peter and have him refurbish it and put the 69 faceplate on it. Also thanks to OG68.
Thanks again
Carousel 72TRed

If your cluster came from a GP, then it would have a blue "dome" over where the dash light sockets went, giving it a blue backlit light compared to the non-GP white light. I made that mistake when I bought some Rally Gauges for my 69 Gto I used to own. They were listed as 69 Gto, but they ended up being from a GP and had the 140 speedo. I didn't know the differences way back when I bought them. I guess someone could remove the blue domes and use them in a Gto, but would have the 140 speedo. I ended up replacing the 140 speedo with my 120 speedo I had in my standard gauge cluster.

[padgett]

68 is the same as a 69-early 72 except the gauge background is blue instead of black. Hood tach is the same. 68 and GP gauges are rarer than later.

6cyl redline is higher than 8 except for 68 RA II.

[Half-Inch Stud]

All the above seems correct. Here's some optional stuff:

Speedo Alert on 68 came with idiot lamps, but easily swapped into Gauge cluster (i did that).

Low fuel Warning would come with Speedo Alert. Easy to screw-on the nuts at the printed board. Not so easy to graft the lamp into the Gauge cluster BUTT i did that for low-Fuel AND Low Oil pressure. However low Oil Bright light is remoted to distract me if low oil happens.

No ability to lamp-up the Hi-Temp, and not needed as i'm so sure we all stare at our Temp gauge as we drive about.

[OG68]

Besides the faceplate color difference, the 68 clock and in-dash tach had a different mounting pattern.

[Half-Inch Stud]

Originally Posted by OG68

Besides the faceplate color difference, the 68 clock and in-dash tach had a different mounting pattern.

Fact-Check says: FALSE. Our panel of esteemed dash pickers say youz wrong. You would be partially correct for GP vs GTO.

[OG68]

Bottom mounting tab is at 6 o'clock on the 68s. At 8 o'clock on the 69-72s

[Carousel72TRed]

Thank you very much 69 GTOCV. I appreciate everybody that has responded to my inquiries. When I turned my dome lights on yesterday I did not see any blue dome so the gauge cluster I have in the car I am assuming is from a 70-71 GTO. I also noticed when cruising around my speedo is off about 3-5 mph high which could be from the fact that the 120 mph speedo is graduated differently than the 140 mph speedo. The faceplate appears to have a slight dark green color when lit and is not as dark as what I remember with my original idiot light cluster.

[padgett]

Just to be clear the 120 mph speedo was used only after 1 January, 1972.

Only greenish tinge I recall was 1967 which is an entirely different cluster. Even the hood tach was different/taller.

Personally always liked the 85 mph speedo. Under 85 it was easy to read. Over 85 I was watching the tach.

[north]

The issue to watch if using a GP cluster (or clock or tach) on a GTO is that the GP used the translucent blue bulb cups as mentioned but they also used a different paint color inside the housing. If for example you take a GP clock and remove the blue bulb cups you will end up with a yellow looking light that doesn't match the other gauges.

You can always spot a cluster-clock-tach that was originally on a GP even if the blue cups were removed because the lighting holes on the housings have a tiny hole on each side of the bulb holes (they melted the cups onto the housing).

[Half-Inch Stud]

Originally Posted by OG68

Bottom mounting tab is at 6 o'clock on the 68s. At 8 o'clock on the 69-72s

Youz RIGHT! I forgot 69 GTO was angled, and remembered the angle tab as GP only. oh been awhile. Sorry.