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Old 06-13-2021, 04:09 PM
Tellyshavilli Tellyshavilli is offline
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Default 1970 RALLYII WHEELS

On 15 inch rally two wheels for a Firebird JW’s or KR’s has anybody ever had any problem with the Repo center caps hitting the dust cover on hub and not letting the wheel go on?

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Old 06-13-2021, 05:21 PM
98 SNAKE EATER 98 SNAKE EATER is offline
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I've had this problem with repro caps on a set of regular Rally II's I picked up from Bill's Birds many moons ago (not JW's or KR's)

My fix was to pound a fender washer into a dome shape and tap threads into the inner plate so I could bolt it on from behind


































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Old 06-13-2021, 05:50 PM
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wow....that is a whole lot of posted pics!!

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Old 06-14-2021, 12:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tellyshavilli View Post
On 15 inch rally two wheels for a Firebird JW’s or KR’s has anybody ever had any problem with the Repo center caps hitting the dust cover on hub and not letting the wheel go on?
Yes... I ended up using OEM retainers that I removed from a couple of old caps I had laying around.

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Old 06-14-2021, 01:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Tellyshavilli View Post
On 15 inch rally two wheels for a Firebird JW’s or KR’s has anybody ever had any problem with the Repo center caps hitting the dust cover on hub and not letting the wheel go on?
You using the lock, bolt on repop cap? I have modified many of these for members here and others.
My mod is to use the slotted disc and the outside edge screws. I clearance the inside of the disc so it clears the dust cap. GREGGG. May have pics of his I did hanging around.

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Old 06-14-2021, 01:26 PM
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Just curious but what years are red and which are black ? Just looked and my 70's are black with red letters. Also always thought 70 TA RIIs looked like they had put a 14" center/spokes on a 15" wheel. YWTK

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Old 06-14-2021, 01:39 PM
98 SNAKE EATER 98 SNAKE EATER is offline
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Originally Posted by padgett View Post
Just curious but what years are red and which are black ? Just looked and my 70's are black with red letters. Also always thought 70 TA RIIs looked like they had put a 14" center/spokes on a 15" wheel. YWTK

I asked this same question a while back

Apparently, for 70 they should be red (I prefer the black)

https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...php?p=6202208#


And yes, the JW wheels are basically 14" center with an outer ring


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Old 06-14-2021, 04:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by padgett View Post
Just curious but what years are red and which are black ? Just looked and my 70's are black with red letters. Also always thought 70 TA RIIs looked like they had put a 14" center/spokes on a 15" wheel. YWTK
My guess is it's a 1970 mid year change so check your production date. If your wheels are original and your car was built late in the 70 model year then all bets are off and both red and black I think are correct.

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Old 06-14-2021, 05:35 PM
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I think early 70s had black caps.

My 3rd week of March build 70 had red caps.

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Old 06-14-2021, 05:52 PM
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Interesting, that looks like the odd '70 wheel but my caps are not that red.
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Old 06-15-2021, 12:09 AM
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the black to red PMD cap changeover happened BEFORE the "1970+" Firebird started production;
You could get an early 1970 GTO with black caps, but even before the extended 1969 model year run of Firebirds ended the caps had changed over to red (they stopped production of the '69 Firebirds in November I believe; keep in mind that they were being sold as 1970 models and were shown in the background of some images for the 1970 full model brochures).

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Old 06-15-2021, 12:43 AM
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No 69 Firebird was ever sold as a 70 if you are implying that.

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Old 06-15-2021, 09:54 AM
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I have read otherwise.

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1970 Formula 400
Carousel Red paint on Black standard interior
A no-engine, no-transmission, no-wheel option car.
Quite likely one of few '70 Muncie three speed Formula 400's left.


1991 Grand Am: 14.4 @ 93.7mph (DA corrected) (retired DD, stock appearing)
2009 Cobalt SS: 13.9 @ 103mph (current DD; makes something north of 300hp & 350ft/lbs)
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Old 06-15-2021, 10:10 AM
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Just a thought but didn't the center of the lug nut match the cap (red or black). Mine have black centers.

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Old 06-15-2021, 10:53 AM
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black (centred) lug nuts were used from 67-72 iirc;
The red ones I believe were over the counter, and never factory installed.

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1970 Formula 400
Carousel Red paint on Black standard interior
A no-engine, no-transmission, no-wheel option car.
Quite likely one of few '70 Muncie three speed Formula 400's left.


1991 Grand Am: 14.4 @ 93.7mph (DA corrected) (retired DD, stock appearing)
2009 Cobalt SS: 13.9 @ 103mph (current DD; makes something north of 300hp & 350ft/lbs)
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Old 06-15-2021, 11:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unruhjonny View Post
black (centred) lug nuts were used from 67-72 iirc;
The red ones I believe were over the counter, and never factory installed.
My 70 has black lugs, red caps.

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1971 Trans Am 5.3 LM7
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1987 Grand National
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Old 06-15-2021, 05:59 PM
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Quote:
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I have read otherwise.
Care to document? You realize your saying that 69 birds had a 70 vin and trim tag ?

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Old 06-15-2021, 06:24 PM
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Was a little before my time.. AFAIR the strike began near the end of September 1969 and ended in Feb 1970 about the same time I returned from SEA and during that time leftover 69 Firebirds continued to be sold until supplies were depleted.

Think they were always 69s but some states titled from first sale so may have caused some confusion.

Once the strike was settled on Feb 6th production of the 1970 Firebirds could start and so the 70 model (major differences) was available toward the end of February and was commonly called 1970 1/2s

I did not start at GMI until June of 70 so missed most of it.

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Old 06-15-2021, 08:14 PM
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Care to document? You realize your saying that 69 birds had a 70 vin and trim tag ?
no, that is absolutely NOT what I am saying.

They were still "1969 model year" cars, but being sold as 'new' as opposed to last years model or old stock;
I have read in (I believe both HPP and occasionally here) that customers were ordering and buying 1969 model year Camaro's and Firebirds as new "1970" cars - because they were at the time, the current available car.
I believe this is in large part why Pontiac referred to the real 1970 model year cars as "1970+" (iirc while Chevrolet called them "1970.5" or something to that effect).

I believe that the '69 Firebird was seen in the full model catalogue (in the background of other model images) in essence to make it seem current to the buying public as the new/current Firebird - even though the real 1970 model year car was coming later in the model year.

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1970 Formula 400
Carousel Red paint on Black standard interior
A no-engine, no-transmission, no-wheel option car.
Quite likely one of few '70 Muncie three speed Formula 400's left.


1991 Grand Am: 14.4 @ 93.7mph (DA corrected) (retired DD, stock appearing)
2009 Cobalt SS: 13.9 @ 103mph (current DD; makes something north of 300hp & 350ft/lbs)
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Old 06-15-2021, 08:17 PM
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Quote:
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... Think they were always 69s but some states titled from first sale so may have caused some confusion. ...
I believe that the deal y was mostly about issues with the intended curved rear glass, and dies for the new panels;
Both issues warranted a delay in the new model year vehicle start.

But yes, I too recall reading of '69 cars being registered as 1970 - I think that had something to do with the car's build date.

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1970 Formula 400
Carousel Red paint on Black standard interior
A no-engine, no-transmission, no-wheel option car.
Quite likely one of few '70 Muncie three speed Formula 400's left.


1991 Grand Am: 14.4 @ 93.7mph (DA corrected) (retired DD, stock appearing)
2009 Cobalt SS: 13.9 @ 103mph (current DD; makes something north of 300hp & 350ft/lbs)
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