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disc0monkey · #81 12-06-2004, 09:56 PM

baby got back?[img]http://rds.yahoo.com/S=96062883/K=ws6+2002/v=2/SID=e/l=IVI/SIG=11leu765p/*-http%3A//www.ws6transam.com/images/WS6/WS6Rear.jpg[/img]

disc0monkey · #82 12-06-2004, 10:05 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Rabon:
Still haven't answer my question 24 hours later. What body in your infinite wisdom should Lutz have used. What you want would have put the car at $50K and then would that be keeping with GTO tradition? By not answering the question you are proving yourselves useless to any meaningful debate. Answer the question: What body, Pontiac, GM, Japanese, Australian or otherwise should GM have used? Answer the question. You can't because then your true GTO knowledge will be revealed as nil (oh wait a minute, Champ already showed that you know nothing about GTO's and might actually have purchased a Canadian inspired LeMans immitation of a 70 Goat). LOL on that one Champ.

Back to the point: Answer the question, whatza, goathead or any other '04 haters out there. WHAT BODY? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

thats why i dont get paid the big bucks, being in the engineering field, i know these challenges come up, thats what we are trained for. you can make things happen if you want, they coulda came up with a new design or just kept the t/a and came out with a new design. that is very poor poor arguement. i dont care about there financing problems, they dug their own grave. u can fight this to your death. also the firebird is very much different than a ws6

rabon008 · #83 12-06-2004, 10:14 PM

disc0monkey wrote: You people are so very stupid, same motor, slightly different cam, and the gto is much heavier.

Um...25 more hp and 25 more ft-lbs torque...but yes...I will give you 150 pounds or so of weight. I haven't been to a "legal" track but I park my GTO beside a 2001 SS every day and have driven the SS many, many times...It doesn't even compare.

PS. I once used that SS to stomp a WS6 so don't say the SS was weak or some crap. The SS is very strong...it just isn't any comparison to my '04 Goat. I think ozzy has owned both the WS6 and the '04 Goat and he seems to agree.

disc0monkey · #84 12-06-2004, 10:16 PM

and the point of you guys saying its the fastest GTO ever blah blah blah.

1. yes it pulls like a mother.
2. its 2004 stupid lets hope so, 6 gears, and fuel injection...the fastest old school gtos didnt even have hei, or the timing and all that easy tuning done to it that the OBD does for you automatically.
3. lets go pick up chicks and see where they go first, my car or yours, even with my "unsporty" copper paint. about equally as rare so don't pull that crap on me..

disc0monkey · #85 12-06-2004, 10:19 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Rabon:
disc0monkey wrote: You people are so very stupid, same motor, slightly different cam, and the gto is much heavier.

Um...25 more hp and 25 more ft-lbs torque...but yes...I will give you 150 pounds or so of weight. I haven't been to a "legal" track but I park my GTO beside a 2001 SS every day and have driven the SS many, many times...It doesn't even compare.

PS. I once used that SS to stomp a WS6 so don't say the SS was weak or some crap. The SS is very strong...it just isn't any comparison to my '04 Goat. I think ozzy has owned both the WS6 and the '04 Goat and he seems to agree. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

those hp rating are BS are you kidding me...thats the most old school pontiac thing in the book. they under-rated the F-bodies, everone knows that. the SS and ws6 is the same car...

rabon008 · #86 12-06-2004, 10:21 PM

and they underated the '04 GTO too. Put one on a dyno.

disc0monkey · #87 12-06-2004, 10:23 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Rabon:
and they underated the '04 GTO too. Put one on a dyno. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

no they didn't HPP said with common drivetrain loss pontiac's rating is right on

rabon008 · #88 12-06-2004, 10:25 PM

and yes...I know the WS6 is the same car as the SS...that was my point...I have never driven a WS6 but I have driven the SS many, many times.

disc0monkey · #89 12-06-2004, 10:26 PM

at least we agree on something

Goathead · #90 12-06-2004, 10:27 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Answer the question: What body, Pontiac, GM, Japanese, Australian or otherwise should GM have used? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Duh, Monkeyman, how about using those hight dollar designers that they have on the payroll? Let me guess, they are to busy to do any real work.

The real point is that this car was a cop out, plain and simple. Take an existing car, rebadge it, and try to market it using a legendary name. Well guy's, it just didn't work. Sorry about that, but that's the reality of the situation, and reality sometimes sucks.

Look, if you like your car, that's great. You laid down your hard earned cash for it, and you should be happy with it, and I hope you are.

But with 35 years of engineering advancement and the latest technology availiable, this car does not really cut the mustard nor does it deserve to be named after a legendary car such as the "PONTIAC GTO", and notice I said Pontiac....Sorry Holden...

disc0monkey · #91 12-06-2004, 10:29 PM

you people have to understand, im not saying its a bad car, as i may buy one if i get the right price...its just not right to have it that plain, and im try to say the py members are not the only ones to say this because they are not flying off the lots to say the least

rabon008 · #92 12-06-2004, 10:32 PM

I have driven both enough to know which is better....when either an SS or a WS6 beats my GTO then I'll let you know. Let me know the next time you are at a stop light and beat an '04 GTO...then we'll talk about the '05.

disc0monkey · #93 12-06-2004, 10:36 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Goathead:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Answer the question: What body, Pontiac, GM, Japanese, Australian or otherwise should GM have used? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

But with 35 years of engineering advancement and the latest technology availiable, this car does not really cut the mustard nor does it deserve to be named after a legendary car such as the "PONTIAC GTO", and notice I said Pontiac....Sorry Holden...

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

exactly it was wrong of them to try ride the coat tails of the original GTO to try to save pontiac. they were desperite we know. but the GTO reputation was built with hard work, and is still respected. It was just wrong to rebadge, they took something holy, and rebadged to introduce it 30 years later on its birthday? ...thats the respect the gto deserves?

disc0monkey · #94 12-06-2004, 10:38 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Rabon:
I have driven both enough to know which is better....when either an SS or a WS6 beats my GTO then I'll let you know. Let me know the next time you are at a stop light and beat an '04 GTO...then we'll talk about the '05. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

all i know is when i was at the track i watched with own two eyes automatics struggling to get into the 13s. and the sticks were running 13.6 or 13.7s

rabon008 · #95 12-06-2004, 10:45 PM

I'll have to give you the last word on that one for the moment because I rarely get an opportunity to see the 1/4 mile performance of mine against any competition on the streets. Maybe mine is special (I'd like to think so...maybe wishful thinking) but I know that the SS that I have driven so much and runs like a bat outta hell is no match. I have only test driven one other '04 and I did note that it wasn't quite as quick as mine.

judge_jury_executioner_69 · #96 12-07-2004, 01:58 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Mr_GTO:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by judge_jury_executioner_69:

a "real" GTO was just that. a pontiac. the new GTO is a australlian car with a chevy engine and has a pontiac badge on it. yeah they havent made a real pontiac since 78/9 so why put not just any pontiac badge but a GTO. remember the GTO was the first muscle car. if i was worried about gas mileage i would have bought a import and put the big turbo(s) and all that on it to make up for the lack of cubes. why handle when youre going fast in a straight line ? thats the idea behind a drag race smart guy. what are you gonna do when/if they come out with the new chevelle and it looks like a 70ish ( like a chevelle should ) and has better numbers out of the box with the same engine as the "new" gto ? i bet thats what theyre doing now. or what about the 06 charger? why does GM have to cater to chevy? lets put a 350 in it. hows that for origionality? how many years have they done this now ? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Funny, which division is pushing the GTO again? Oh right, PONTIAC.

which American Made Pontiac would you want to wear the GTO badge?

Uh, cars wouldn't sell if they couldn't handle. This is 2004, not 1964. Cars today can do both and if you have never gone carting or road racing, it is 1000% more fun than drag racing.

How does Pontiac cater to Chevy? The LS1/LS2 engines are not Chevy's hate to tell you. But then again, educated people and people not in denial already know this. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

1. pontiac ? last time i checked they stopped making them (motors) in the late 70's.

2.what body would i put it in ? i bet it would have sold better in a aztec or montana.

3. if i wanted handleing i would look at something awd. such as a EVO VIII. all wheel turbo that will run low 13's/high 12's (depending if you talk to real owners or read magazines) and handle better then the new GTO. i can guarantee i wouldnt do any kind of road racing in my 69. but then again i didnt/wont plan on it.

judge_jury_executioner_69 · #97 12-07-2004, 02:14 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Heff:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by judge_jury_executioner_69:

why handle when youre going fast in a straight line ? thats the idea behind a drag race smart guy. what are you gonna do when/if they come out with the new chevelle and it looks like a 70ish ( like a chevelle should ) and has better numbers out of the box with the same engine as the "new" gto ? i bet thats what theyre doing now. or what about the 06 charger? why does GM have to cater to chevy? lets put a 350 in it. hows that for origionality? how many years have they done this now ? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

why handle when you're going in a straight line?
last time i drove, i seem to remember some curves on the road somewhere...oh, and i think i had to slow down at least once. i've been told about these things called country roads. maybe you've also heard of them. these roads are a lot of fun to drive on. more fun i think than going in a straight line all the time. also i think those roads are where power in a car becomes more fun.
maybe i like a car that handles because i've been around import cars most of my life, around SCCA tracks. I've also been to drag strips and those silly Nascar races.
and when a 'new' chevelle comes out, once again, i won't care. A new Charger? Who cares! These cars aren't going to look like the cars they're named after! Get over that, it's never going to happen. I believe it's called Aerodynamics. That's one reason cars now won't look like cars then, at least cars that are mass produced. Wasn't the public screaming for a v8 powered car, that was fast, stylish, and affordable? And didn't GM deliver? (styling is objective as we all know) But wah-wah, it doesn't have hideaway headlights, a 455, vinyl bucket seats, drum brakes, a 4 speed tranny, rally wheels...on and on...so let's all get uptight because they stuck a GTO emblem on this car.
I have a great idea...take the GTO emblem off! holy crap! Then, you can put a Grand Prix emblem on it...or a Grand Am emblem. Even make some custom Tempest or Le Mans emblems! Maybe, get really wild and make a Bonneville/Grandville emblem. You can make it what ever your little heart desires. It seems the big cry-factor here is the Emblem, so just make it something you want it to be <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

it would be nice if it had 428 not a 455. dont care about rally wheels. the seats, brakes, or tranny havent failed me yet in my 69. i dont knwo if i would call the new gto stylish. maybe stylish to ray charles. i said when you DRAG race ( 1/4 mile straight line ) you dont need handleing. key words here are drag race. do they have corners at the track you go to ? not mine. the point im trying to make with the new chevelle and chargers is that theyre gonna make pontiac look stupid for making a new gto. but pontiac didnt make it to be retro. why put the gto badge if it wasnt supposed to be retro ? at least answer that question for me.hood scoops,dual exhaust, and even the badges look like the real gto's. but keep in mind its not a retro car.

Mr_GTO · #98 12-07-2004, 03:21 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by whatza monaro??:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Mr_GTO:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by whatza monaro??:

I don't know about "everything the original was" because there is nothing from the original on the GM Monaro. And yes, it is certinly better than something that was manufactured 30-40 yrs. ago. Huge accomplishment in the land of Beavis and Lutzhead. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hmmm, what part of the Corvette or the Mustang came on the original that is still being used now? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

uhhh, parts??? Where did that come from? No mistaking the 'Vette or 'Stang for another car. And where in my post did I say anything about original "parts"????? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I asked you what was orginal on the Mustang or Corvette that was orginal in 1953 or 1964? Please let me know.

Mr_GTO · #99 12-07-2004, 03:25 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by judge_jury_executioner_69:

1. pontiac ? last time i checked they stopped making them (motors) in the late 70's.

2.what body would i put it in ? i bet it would have sold better in a aztec or montana.

3. if i wanted handleing i would look at something awd. such as a EVO VIII. all wheel turbo that will run low 13's/high 12's (depending if you talk to real owners or read magazines) and handle better then the new GTO. i can guarantee i wouldnt do any kind of road racing in my 69. but then again i didnt/wont plan on it. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Motors yes, cars no.

2. Yea, right. Stupid comments when you know you're wrong.

3. So go buy one and stop bitching like a girl.

RandyW · #**100** 12-07-2004, 06:11 AM

It looks like everyone would have been happy if Pontiac had called this car a GT-37 Or LeMans GT or anything but GTO. While it does have GTO performance, maybe it would have been better to call it something else!?
As for Pontiac being saved by the GTO, that was never the reason for the car, the G6 will take care of that along with a lot of other good product like the V8 Grand Prix, etc...