[mgarblik]

Originally Posted by Cliff R

Far as engine wear is concerned you are far more likely to wear one out not paying attention to air filtration that oil. The amount of abrasives entering the combustion space is the big factor in wearing these engines out far before they should be.

Do you think they are making these new engines out of different materials than they used to? Air filtration was very poor on these older engines and the first time the air filter base got removed the gasket was torn or left out and they started sucking unfiltered air directly into the engine. Not to mention the throttle shafts were loose and continued to get looser providing a nice vacuum leak for unfiltered air to get into the intake system

Cripe, many small commercial engines don't even have an oil pump, oil filter, etc and will last for decades without any problems whatsoever related to oil filtration. Take the same engine and poke a small hole in the air filter housing inside the filter element and see how many years you get out of it!........Cliff

Good points. The ratio we all hear and commit to memory is 14.7 to 1. The ideal ratio of gasoline to air for peak efficiency and lowest emissions as an average. But that ratio is by weight. The same ratio by volume is approximately 9000 gallons of air to 1 gallon of gas. That's allot of potentially dirty air being ingested by the engine. Oil, fuel, and AIR filtration are all very important.

[Cliff R]

Sort of related but interesting fact on fuel filtration.

I owned a 2007 Duramax for a while and had troubles with several types of filters that I purchased for it. It was stock with a 4" exhaust, EGR delete and slight power improvement with a hand held tuner.

It was fine 99 percent of the time with any fuel filter used, however if we took off on a trip with a heavy trailer it would go into "limp" mode on a hard pull with some fuel filters. The tuner was also a code reader so it would say low fuel pressure and I'd re-set it and good to go till the next hard pull.

The better filters out there were the only ones that would cause this issue. NAPA makes (at that time) two variety for it, the better one didn't work but the cheaper one was fine no matter how hard we worked it. So basically there are times when having the filtration too fine in microns can work against you as it hurts flow.......Cliff

[Sirrotica]

It sure is nice to not have to crawl under my own vehicles every 3,000-6,000 miles, to change oil and deal with drain oil. Especially on my 05 GTO, you have to remove a skid plate just to get to the filter and drain plug. I put up with that until I changed to a by pass filter, no more. The factory LS2 pan is cast aluminum and hangs rather low in the late model GTOs. GM/Holden thought it was a good idea to protect it with a skid plate.

Getting 35,000 miles between oil changes, saves time and the cost of the oil and filters if your buying high dollar spin on filters, and some type of upper echelon synthetic oil. Repayment for improved filter system is fairly fast.

Cliff, since I did all my racing on dirt tracks, I'm fully aware of what a leak in the intake tract will do to a race engine in short order. Sprint cars for many years ran the injector stacks open with no type of air filtration, they now all have a filter box fitted to the injector stacks to solve the dirt ingestion problem. Anyone that thinks drag raced engines are expensive, has never delved into the oval track arena.

I have a friend in Erie Pa that has raced in the super late model ranks for many years (he recently retired in his mid 50s). He has lost only one engine since he started racing at 16. He changed his oil each and every night he raced faithfully because his thought process is that the oil gets contaminated after just one night of racing. Hard to argue with someone that built their own engines and has raced that long with only 1 engine failure. To me it does prove that clean oil will increase the longevity many times over. He raced 2 nights a week and freshened the engine once a year. I usually looked pristine when he tore it down, very minimal bearing and cylinder wear. Fortunately he had a local Pennzoil distributor/jobber sponsor that supplied him with oil because it added up to hundreds of gallons over a race season. All of his friends including me ran the lightly used race oil in our street cars.

As long as you bring that up the subject of dirt being ingested, it is ultimately going to end up in the pan after it gets past the rings, a better oil filter will minimize the wear on bottom end parts, although the rings and cylinder walls are going to take the brunt of the damage. Agreed, nothing is going to save an engine exposed to ingesting dirt through the intake system.

There is still no down side to highly clean filtered oil that I know of. Since I've changed oil in anything with an engine in it since I was 16 years old as a profession, I'm not fond of it, and minimizing time under cars and dealing with drain oil disposal is that much better after doing it as a steady diet most of my adult life. I also don't worry about my oil progressively getting dirtier and putting off oil changes and worrying about it, until I can fit it in to my schedule. With my 05 GTO, my diesel dually and the wife's Vibe, it' sneaks up on you and then you realize your 2,000 miles past the miles where you should have changed oil. Now it doesn't matter................

The fuel starvation issue is a real concern, however that is because the fuel filter is inline with the delivery pump and the injector pump. A by pass oil filter isn't inline between the oil pump and internally oiled engine parts though. The beauty of the design of the system it is it runs oil from a tap into the oil pressure switch through a 1/8 restrictor then through the filter and after filtering the oil returns back to the oil pan. There is no internally oiled parts fed by the by pass filter, the oil is just returned to the pan, clean. No danger of starving parts by a restrictive oil filter whatsoever. The by pass system is fed off of pressure oiling and just fed back to the pan. The full flow filter can be left in place, or because the by pass system does such a fine job of filtering it could be discarded. Before full flow system came into being many engines had no filter, as an option a by pass filter could be ordered. If you had an auto engine at that time without any filter, the oil change interval was 1,000 miles, and you better not forget and run past it. Your engines demise would happen rather quickly thereafter.

[buckeye23us]

Thank you everyone for your input it has been very enlightening. probably going to go with a NAPA 1258 and a mechanic.
THANKS,
GTO Frank

[Steve C.]

Some Honda models have a maintenance reminder system for oil. The on-board computer continuously monitors engine operating conditions such as speed, engine temperature, ambient temperature, time, and vehicle use to determine when an oil change and regular maintenance is necessary.

Comical you might even bring your car into a dealership to get an oil change, and a worker there will put the same 3,000-mile warning sticker on your car.


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[455GRIN]

Originally Posted by Steve C.

Some Honda models have a maintenance reminder system for oil. The on-board computer continuously monitors engine operating conditions such as speed, engine temperature, ambient temperature, time, and vehicle use to determine when an oil change and regular maintenance is necessary.

Comical you might even bring your car into a dealership to get an oil change, and a worker there will put the same 3,000-mile warning sticker on your car.


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And use and charge you for synthetic oil.

[Sirrotica]

My 05 GTO has an engine oil monitor system on it, typically comes on at 9,000 miles, give or take. They specify synthetic oil from day one when I bought it so they're banking on the owner using premium grade oil too.

[MD79TA]

Not trying to hyjack thread . Lots of good info on filters. I would like to know what oil everyone runs? I have been running 20w50 brad penn and same weight Synergy It's expensive but in bulk can get at 7 /8 dollars a quart. I m told good zinc content also . I live in northeast so daytime temp when running are from 45 to 95 degrees . Any thoughts ?

[leeklm]

20w50 too heavy imo. Unless your engine has large bearing clearance, etc. Most engine guys would recommend a good zinc oil or additive and a 10/30 or 10/40, especially for your temp range. Personally, I use a 10/30 synthetic with a half bottle of Lucas zinc additive or similar. I never run 20/50, not even in my old circle track cars. I did once, and the engine guy yelled at me

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[Formulajones]

You would need the pour ratings to make a solid comparison of cold flow characteristics.

Some of the 20-50's pour as good, and even better, than some of the 10-30's on the market.

http://mcgeerf.tripod.com/americansy...coil/id17.html

[72LuxuryLeMansLa.]

Originally Posted by Formulajones

You would need the pour ratings to make a solid comparison of cold flow characteristics.

Some of the 20-50's pour as good, and even better, than some of the 10-30's on the market.

http://mcgeerf.tripod.com/americansy...coil/id17.html

So 10w doesn't mean 10w and 20w doesn't mean 20w cold.....While 30 doesn't mean 30 and 50 doesn't mean 50 hot?

[MD79TA]

Little confused on 20w 50 oil so I need help. This was what was recommended by my builder. I don't run car in winter so the 20 weight really doesn't come in to play I think? Most of my driving is in warm/ hot weather above 60 degrees up to 100 . So doesn't the 50 weight give me more protection in warm hot weather? This is called racing oil by some venders ( do not race just a street car with a stock 400 that puts out 375 hp and 460 lbs of torque )and are partial synthetic blends. Brad Penn and synergy are brands I have been using . Have no idea what partial is. Also most have a good amount of zinc which my builder tells me is good. . I'm just trying to understand what these new oils do. Back in the 60/70 I used Quaker state 10/40 but I know things have changed. Doug

[Chris65LeMans]

I don’t know about you, but I’d listen to my engine builder Re: what kind of oil to use.

[Chief of the 60's]

Originally Posted by MD79TA

Little confused on 20w 50 oil so I need help. This was what was recommended by my builder. I don't run car in winter so the 20 weight really doesn't come in to play I think? Most of my driving is in warm/ hot weather above 60 degrees up to 100 . So doesn't the 50 weight give me more protection in warm hot weather? This is called racing oil by some venders ( do not race just a street car with a stock 400 that puts out 375 hp and 460 lbs of torque )and are partial synthetic blends. Brad Penn and synergy are brands I have been using . Have no idea what partial is. Also most have a good amount of zinc which my builder tells me is good. . I'm just trying to understand what these new oils do. Back in the 60/70 I used Quaker state 10/40 but I know things have changed. Doug

"Racing" oil generally has Zinc. If your engine is not a roller, you need Zinc or you will eat up your cam and lifters. But as mentioned, use what your builder tells you. If you have a problem and did not follow his recommendations he is probably going to say, "sucks to be you".

[Jim Moshier]

I use Baldwin filters and if I go to the local auto parts store I will get NAPA or Wix

[leeklm]

I always tend to feel a little cynical on this topic. While we all want the best for our pride & joy cars, the reality is most of us can likely run any oil off the shelf (asside from zinc for flat tappet cam) and we will never notice the difference for the few miles we actually run these things! At the end of the day, it makes the owner sleep better. I am not sure the car really cares that much (within reason of course). With that said, I am still guilty of buying synthetic oil and changing it too often in my Pontiac...

My brother in law has close connections to Amsoil, so always good for some lively debate over Thanksgiving dinner

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[Chief of the 60's]

Originally Posted by leeklm

I always tend to feel a little cynical on this topic. While we all want the best for our pride & joy cars, the reality is most of us can likely run any oil off the shelf (asside from zinc for flat tappet cam) and we will never notice the difference for the few miles we actually run these things! At the end of the day, it makes the owner sleep better. I am not sure the car really cares that much (within reason of course). With that said, I am still guilty of buying synthetic oil and changing it too often in my Pontiac...

My brother in law has close connections to Amsoil, so always good for some lively debate over Thanksgiving dinner

Ha Ha Ha.... The 'ol Thanksgiving day family "debates".

The rest of what you said it spot on as well.

[#1965GTO]

Wow I can tell this group is a young crowd. You guys probably don't remember the old Kendal motor oils. The hand with two fingers, no not a peace sign. Two fingers represented 2000. The words on the signs said, "Kendal the 2000 mile motor oil". Those signs are highly collectable today.
And long before Honda stole this oil mileage system Cadillac had it for years. Our 93 Allante has that reminder that shows the percent of oil life remaining. At the push of a button and automatically gives you a warning at 10% left in the form of a spelled out message. That oil life is based on time, temp and load seen by the computer. That Northstar holds 7 1/2 quarts, my choice for that car and the 99 Blazer is Mobil 5000 mileage, these are both roller engines. The Northstar will average 600 to 7000 miles. We live in southern Nevada where the summer temps hit 120 plus on a regular basis.
My choice for the GTO, with a worked over 68 400, is VR-1. It's a little spendy unless you watch the NAPA sales fliers. About once a year they run it for around $6 a quart.
All in all the current engine and automotive technology is light years ahead of the 50s. Sheet metal wasn't galvanized, chrome rings hadn't been invented and oil bath air cleaners were all the rage. Lots of cars and trucks spent the majority of their life on dirt roads. My Dad's very nice little 55 2 door post Belair was ready for the junk yard with less than a 100k on the odometer. He always cared very well for our cars and regular oil changes.

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by leeklm

I always tend to feel a little cynical on this topic. While we all want the best for our pride & joy cars, the reality is most of us can likely run any oil off the shelf (asside from zinc for flat tappet cam) and we will never notice the difference for the few miles we actually run these things!

We drive ours daily and depend on them to go everywhere.

[Steve C.]

I mentioned this within another thread and related here. In conversation with Mark at Luhn Performance he mentioned his conversations with engineers at both Mahle (pistons) and Dura-Bond (bearings) and stated they tend to shy away from 20W-50 oil in street cars. They would prefer 10W30 or 10W40.

Just a fwiw to add to the topic... and not trying to counter anyone's opinions.


http://www.luhnperformance.com/
High Performance oil pumps for Pontiac



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