THE LOBBY A gathering place. Introductions, sports, showin' off your ride, birthday-anniversary-milestone, achievements, family oriented humor.

          
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 03-13-2019, 08:34 AM
TAKerry TAKerry is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: North Eastern MD
Posts: 1,146
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by NeighborsComplaint View Post
If only those 757 miles could speak, what a story they would tell.
" Oh, why would someone buy me at a premium, then put me away in a dark, dust covered barn. I want to get out on the road and run with the rest of the pack, and live up to my potential"

  #22  
Old 03-13-2019, 08:48 AM
tigergto's Avatar
tigergto tigergto is offline
Senior Chief
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 437
Default

I could never understand the fascination with those cars.

  #23  
Old 03-13-2019, 09:00 AM
flyingn's Avatar
flyingn flyingn is offline
Chief Ponti-yacker
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Cinnaminson nj
Posts: 797
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tigergto View Post
I could never understand the fascination with those cars.
If you've driven one, you would understand. They are a blast to drive

__________________
Frank Szymkowski

1969 GTO Judge Warwick blue/blue, RAIII, 4 speed, tach/gauges, Safe T track, 3.55's, ps and radio.

1971 Torino 351c 4v GT convertible. White on white with black interior
4 speed, shaker, am/fm, ps/pdb, buckets/console, ac.
One of 26 made
  #24  
Old 03-13-2019, 09:26 AM
TAKerry TAKerry is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: North Eastern MD
Posts: 1,146
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tigergto View Post
I could never understand the fascination with those cars.
Im with you. I think theyre neat looking, and im sure they run like stink, I just never got caught up in them. Or the Monte Carlo SS cars. Have always like f bodies. I did a job a year ago and there was a large garage in the backyard. Im always on the lookout for cars and lo and behold there as a GN under a cover. I asked the realtor I was working for about it, and it wasn't for sale. No biggie, I thought if I could get it for a good price what the heck.

  #25  
Old 03-13-2019, 09:34 AM
RocktimusPryme's Avatar
RocktimusPryme RocktimusPryme is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Bedford, IN
Posts: 2,166
Default

I think the fascination is similar mostly that they are heralded as a 2nd coming of performance. After a long dead period they were one of the first cars that were fast again. By todays standards they are tame but what isn't. Similar to the 1964 GTO for being the first Muscle Car.

People can argue the semantics of it, just like you can for what truly started the muscle car era. I mean the L98 3rd Gen cars I think are under-rated. But perception becomes reality. Those all black turbocharged Buicks are generally known as the baddest thing from the 80s. Performance began increasing across the board shortly afterwards.

I don't particularly love 80s G Body styling. But the GNs are certainly iconic. I cant think of very many other cars that I will actively get angry if I see repainted something other than black.

__________________
1967 Firebird 462 580hp/590ftlbs
1962 Pontiac Catalina Safari Swapped in Turd of an Olds 455
Owner/Creator Catfish Motorsports
https://www.youtube.com/@CatfishMotorsports
  #26  
Old 03-13-2019, 10:04 AM
mgarblik mgarblik is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 6,035
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tigergto View Post
I could never understand the fascination with those cars.
I think there are several factors at work here. 1. It's a Buick. Cars designed for people 75 years old and older. "the last car you will ever own" should have been their motto. BUT every 25 years or so, they come out with a model that is just fantastic and so out of character with their "brand", it can't be ignored. 1938 Buick Century 8, 1970 Stage 1 cars and GSX , 86-87 Grand Nationals. GNX. If you are a Buick fan, your pickings are as slim as AMC almost. 2. The timing was perfect for this car much like the SD-455 Trans Am. The GN's were so far ahead of all the competition, it was ridiculous to even compare. A small efficient V-6, sequential port fuel injection, distributerless ignition, turbocharged, super high tech for the time. I remember going to our local drag strip in 1986 and watching a brand new Corvette and a GN run them off. The GN won by damn near 1/2 track. 25+ car lengths. We were all just standing there with our jaws dragging the ground. And it was silent.
That's what all the excitement is about in my opinion. Buick hasn't built a car that will be remembered in any meaningful way since. So in a way, it's the last great Buick. There is value in that.

  #27  
Old 03-13-2019, 11:49 AM
flyingn's Avatar
flyingn flyingn is offline
Chief Ponti-yacker
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Cinnaminson nj
Posts: 797
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mgarblik View Post
I think there are several factors at work here. 1. It's a Buick. Cars designed for people 75 years old and older. "the last car you will ever own" should have been their motto. BUT every 25 years or so, they come out with a model that is just fantastic and so out of character with their "brand", it can't be ignored. 1938 Buick Century 8, 1970 Stage 1 cars and GSX , 86-87 Grand Nationals. GNX. If you are a Buick fan, your pickings are as slim as AMC almost. 2. The timing was perfect for this car much like the SD-455 Trans Am. The GN's were so far ahead of all the competition, it was ridiculous to even compare. A small efficient V-6, sequential port fuel injection, distributerless ignition, turbocharged, super high tech for the time. I remember going to our local drag strip in 1986 and watching a brand new Corvette and a GN run them off. The GN won by damn near 1/2 track. 25+ car lengths. We were all just standing there with our jaws dragging the ground. And it was silent.
That's what all the excitement is about in my opinion. Buick hasn't built a car that will be remembered in any meaningful way since. So in a way, it's the last great Buick. There is value in that.
Well said. These cars were nothing short of legendary when new and spared on the streets. There was a shop near me who for $995, promised a 12 second time slip with a stock GN. Slicks, a bleed valve and tricks to richen it up was all it took to run legit 12.8's with a stocker

__________________
Frank Szymkowski

1969 GTO Judge Warwick blue/blue, RAIII, 4 speed, tach/gauges, Safe T track, 3.55's, ps and radio.

1971 Torino 351c 4v GT convertible. White on white with black interior
4 speed, shaker, am/fm, ps/pdb, buckets/console, ac.
One of 26 made
  #28  
Old 03-13-2019, 12:38 PM
mgarblik mgarblik is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 6,035
Default

As an engine guy, there is one more area about those cars that flat amazes me. If you open one of those engines up what do you find? A bunch of cast iron junk is what you find in there!! How in the heck those little engines stayed together and made that kind of power and much more with stock rotating assemblies defies logic. Cast crankshaft, cast rods, heavy full skirted pistons, iron heads, small valves. You look at it assembled and swear it will be a pile of cast iron kitty litter at 150 HP! But I don't recall any significant engine issues while those cars were popular and being serviced under warranty. The same can't be said for the rear ends. They would literally explode the second you bolted a pair of slicks on them. I remember one being brought in on a flat bed tow truck. Rubber all over the rear quarters but now with stock wheels on it. White haired lady said, "I just don't know what happened?" We opened the trunk and found a bowling ball sized hole right in front of the gas tank! The entire center section had blown apart and the pinion and front of the housing went through the trunk.

  #29  
Old 03-13-2019, 01:09 PM
Bermuda Blue Bermuda Blue is offline
Senior Chief
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 481
Default

Buick V6 turbo cranks have deep rolled fillet journals making them much stronger than NA cranks which did not have rolled fillets. NA cranks can't handle forced induction - ask me how i know.

  #30  
Old 03-13-2019, 01:19 PM
RocktimusPryme's Avatar
RocktimusPryme RocktimusPryme is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Bedford, IN
Posts: 2,166
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mgarblik View Post
If you are a Buick fan, your pickings are as slim as AMC almost.
I disagree there. Buick has far more offerings than AMC. I think for most of the muscle car era they had cars I would own. Basically any year I would own of a Chevelle I would drive the Buick A body too.

Riveras are cool. Best dash ever maybe. the 1957 Buick is the best of the GM tri five offerings IMO. 1958 is second to Pontiac.

Nailheads were important for performance in their time too. A popular flathead swap.

__________________
1967 Firebird 462 580hp/590ftlbs
1962 Pontiac Catalina Safari Swapped in Turd of an Olds 455
Owner/Creator Catfish Motorsports
https://www.youtube.com/@CatfishMotorsports
  #31  
Old 03-13-2019, 01:39 PM
eaglesan13 eaglesan13 is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: California
Posts: 2,593
Default

In 1978 I was an apprentice mechanic at a local Lincoln Mercury dealer. I got assigned to do a Pre-Delivery Inspection (PDI) on a new Bobcat. The Bobcat was the Mercury version of the Ford Pinto. While it was a little more "upscale" than the Pinto, they were basically the same car. I got the car in my stall and some guy comes over to talk to me. He's the new owner, having already purchased the car. He tells me he wants all the protective plastic stuff on the carpet, seats and steering wheel left in place. When I asked why, he said since the Bobcat/Pinto was being discontinued, he purchased the car as an investment. He thinks it's going to go up in value, so he intends to take it home, put it up on jack stands, and store the car and sell it for big money some day. I remember thinking to myself, it's a f-ing Pinto!

Whenever I see cars like this one on eBay, I always wonder what ever became of that Bobcat, and what it might be worth today.

  #32  
Old 03-13-2019, 02:19 PM
tigergto's Avatar
tigergto tigergto is offline
Senior Chief
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 437
Default

[QUOTE=mgarblik;6002057]I think there are several factors at work here. 1. It's a Buick. Cars designed for people 75 years old and older. "the last car you will ever own" should have been their motto. BUT every 25 years or so, they come out with a model that is just fantastic and so out of character with their "brand", it can't be ignored. 1938 Buick Century 8, 1970 Stage 1 cars and GSX , 86-87 Grand Nationals. GNX. If you are a Buick fan, your pickings are as slim as AMC almost. 2. The timing was perfect for this car much like the SD-455 Trans Am. The GN's were so far ahead of all the competition, it was ridiculous to even compare. A small efficient V-6, sequential port fuel injection, distributerless ignition, turbocharged, super high tech for the time. I remember going to our local drag strip in 1986 and watching a brand new Corvette and a GN run them off. The GN won by damn near 1/2 track. 25+ car lengths. We were all just standing there with our jaws dragging the ground. And it was silent.
That's what all the excitement is about in my opinion. Buick hasn't built a car that will be remembered in any meaningful way since. So in a way, it's the last great Buick. There is value in that.[/QUOTE

Thanks, that helps me understand the fascination a little better.

  #33  
Old 03-13-2019, 02:59 PM
flyingn's Avatar
flyingn flyingn is offline
Chief Ponti-yacker
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Cinnaminson nj
Posts: 797
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mgarblik View Post
. The same can't be said for the rear ends. They would literally explode the second you bolted a pair of slicks on them. I remember one being brought in on a flat bed tow truck. Rubber all over the rear quarters but now with stock wheels on it. White haired lady said, "I just don't know what happened?" We opened the trunk and found a bowling ball sized hole right in front of the gas tank! The entire center section had blown apart and the pinion and front of the housing went through the trunk.
That was a fluke as the GN's had a pretty strong 8.5" 10 bolt corporate rear. I've seen them stay together well into the 10's.

__________________
Frank Szymkowski

1969 GTO Judge Warwick blue/blue, RAIII, 4 speed, tach/gauges, Safe T track, 3.55's, ps and radio.

1971 Torino 351c 4v GT convertible. White on white with black interior
4 speed, shaker, am/fm, ps/pdb, buckets/console, ac.
One of 26 made
  #34  
Old 03-13-2019, 03:00 PM
flyingn's Avatar
flyingn flyingn is offline
Chief Ponti-yacker
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Cinnaminson nj
Posts: 797
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by eaglesan13 View Post
In 1978 I was an apprentice mechanic at a local Lincoln Mercury dealer. I got assigned to do a Pre-Delivery Inspection (PDI) on a new Bobcat. The Bobcat was the Mercury version of the Ford Pinto. While it was a little more "upscale" than the Pinto, they were basically the same car. I got the car in my stall and some guy comes over to talk to me. He's the new owner, having already purchased the car. He tells me he wants all the protective plastic stuff on the carpet, seats and steering wheel left in place. When I asked why, he said since the Bobcat/Pinto was being discontinued, he purchased the car as an investment. He thinks it's going to go up in value, so he intends to take it home, put it up on jack stands, and store the car and sell it for big money some day. I remember thinking to myself, it's a f-ing Pinto!

Whenever I see cars like this one on eBay, I always wonder what ever became of that Bobcat, and what it might be worth today.
well, in reality, I'll bet if he stored it correctly, he may be able to double his money today with it

__________________
Frank Szymkowski

1969 GTO Judge Warwick blue/blue, RAIII, 4 speed, tach/gauges, Safe T track, 3.55's, ps and radio.

1971 Torino 351c 4v GT convertible. White on white with black interior
4 speed, shaker, am/fm, ps/pdb, buckets/console, ac.
One of 26 made
  #35  
Old 03-13-2019, 03:19 PM
unruhjonny's Avatar
unruhjonny unruhjonny is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Calgary, AB, Canada
Posts: 6,235
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris65LeMans View Post
... As for comparing the investment amounts - if you bought a house in California with 37k down in 1987 and found a renter to pay the mortgage, you’d have a $700,000, paid off, house today.
As far as I'm concerned, this post nailed it.

As much as I'd love to dabble in buying and selling cars to make money, I know it's a more shrewd move to get more equity into the homestead...

Quote:
Originally Posted by mgarblik View Post
I... The GN's were so far ahead of all the competition, it was ridiculous to even compare. A small efficient V-6, sequential port fuel injection, distributerless ignition, turbocharged, super high tech for the time. I remember going to our local drag strip in 1986 and watching a brand new Corvette and a GN run them off. The GN won by damn near 1/2 track. 25+ car lengths. We were all just standing there with our jaws dragging the ground. And it was silent.
...
And yet, at this point in time, other period advances have been almost forgotten;
The Quad4, as maligned as it was for being noisy, it too marked a huge advancement in technology, and even in 'base' (150hp) trim as built for 1987-1989* out powered a great deal of the V8 cars on the road at the time;
(* = 200 special built red on Grey Oldsmobile Cutlass Calais I-Series coupes, and 200 special built red on grey Pontiac Grand Am SE coupes were built at the very end of the 1989 model year to debut the Quad4HO.)
Then the Quad4HO came out with thirty extra horsepower;
Only to be followed in 1991 with the Oldsmobile only version dubbed "W41" which had yet another 10hp...

Between the GN stomping the Corvette, then the TTA stomping the Corvette, and GM really not wanting to tarnish their two-seat-sportscar with a four cylinder powered car, it seems clear why the 250hp turbocharged Quad4 never got the "ok" for production.
Two pre-production Turbo Quad4's were built on production cars to pace the Indy 500.

Imagine this;
1985-1986 Corvette = 230hp/5.7L V8
1986 GN = 235hp/3.8L V6-T
1987 Corvette = 240hp/5.7L V8
1987 GN = 245hp/3.8L V6-T
1988-1989 Corvette = 245hp/5.7L V8
1989 20th Ann TTA = 245hp/3.8L V6-T
1990-1991 Corvette = 250hp/5.7L V8
1992 Olds Quad4-Turbo = 250hp/2.3L I4-T

If GM had kept up on the path that Oldsmobile started with the Quad4, and only gave Quad4 (especially Quad4HO) powered cars to be tested and reviewed by enthusiast publications instead of ones which were happier with a sub-100hp four cylinder powered car - I see no reason why the engine would have gone through it's neutering, and eventual replacement with the European sourced 'Ecotec'...
But that's good old GM, don't do anything to take thunder away from the corvette, and little to no regard for PR on new products going through teething...

After abandoning the Quad4 because it was deemed as "damaged goods", it took GM twenty years to get a regular production four cylinder engine to match, and barely eclipse the Quad4HO;
1989.5-1992 'LGO' Quad4HO = 180hp
2010-to date 'LAF' Ecotec = 182hp

To show how cyclical GM is, look at my now ten model year old daily driver;
Factory 260hp;
GM Stage 1 = 290hp
I have no doubt GM has the ability to make another four cylinder powered car that could stomp my Cobalt, but I don't see them doing it any time soon.
Look at the big hoopla last year over the turbo-four powered Camaro 1LE (275hp);
The car weighs roughly 500 pounds more than my Cobalt, and makes less power than my car, if I were running the GMS1 tune!?
Please.

Sorry for the rant... I feel better now.

__________________
1970 Formula 400
Carousel Red paint on Black standard interior
A no-engine, no-transmission, no-wheel option car.
Quite likely one of few '70 Muncie three speed Formula 400's left.


1991 Grand Am: 14.4 @ 93.7mph (DA corrected) (retired DD, stock appearing)
2009 Cobalt SS: 13.9 @ 103mph (current DD; makes something north of 300hp & 350ft/lbs)
  #36  
Old 03-13-2019, 03:31 PM
mgarblik mgarblik is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 6,035
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by eaglesan13 View Post
In 1978 I was an apprentice mechanic at a local Lincoln Mercury dealer. I got assigned to do a Pre-Delivery Inspection (PDI) on a new Bobcat. The Bobcat was the Mercury version of the Ford Pinto. While it was a little more "upscale" than the Pinto, they were basically the same car. I got the car in my stall and some guy comes over to talk to me. He's the new owner, having already purchased the car. He tells me he wants all the protective plastic stuff on the carpet, seats and steering wheel left in place. When I asked why, he said since the Bobcat/Pinto was being discontinued, he purchased the car as an investment. He thinks it's going to go up in value, so he intends to take it home, put it up on jack stands, and store the car and sell it for big money some day. I remember thinking to myself, it's a f-ing Pinto!

Whenever I see cars like this one on eBay, I always wonder what ever became of that Bobcat, and what it might be worth today.
I don't know what it would be worth. A guess might be around $7500.00 if he never drove it. Truthfully, it would have been worth more as a Pinto today as some Ford dealer may have wanted it on their showroom today. With Mercury out of business, that plan goes away. Along the same line, we have an excellent little car show in my home town each year. They close off the streets and do a nice job. Last year there was a plain Jane white 71 Vega 2 door. Few options but it did have a white and black houndstooth kinda looking interior. It was just in immaculate condition. I could tell it was unrestored. Looked in the window and it had 1500 miles on it. I remember thinking the same thing. What's the most $$ this car could possibly be worth? 5-6 K? Why would someone collect it? I guess the same reason people collect Pacers, Gremlins and Yugo's.

  #37  
Old 03-13-2019, 03:37 PM
Chris65LeMans's Avatar
Chris65LeMans Chris65LeMans is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 1,591
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mgarblik View Post
I don't know what it would be worth. A guess might be around $7500.00 if he never drove it. Truthfully, it would have been worth more as a Pinto today as some Ford dealer may have wanted it on their showroom today. .
I don’t think it would help sales to have one of those pos ‘s in the showroom.

__________________
1965 Pontiac LeMans. M21, 3.73 in a 12 bolt, Kauffman 461.
  #38  
Old 03-13-2019, 03:44 PM
TAKerry TAKerry is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: North Eastern MD
Posts: 1,146
Default

I had a neighbor when i was a kid that had a new bobcat. Black with gold trim. She was the 'older hot mom' in the 'hood at the time. In retrospect she was maybe 30, 35 tops, blonde and very good looking. We always looked forward to seeing that car coming down the road. Whenever I see or hear of a bobcat I think back to her. LOL

  #39  
Old 03-13-2019, 03:51 PM
mgarblik mgarblik is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 6,035
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by flyingn View Post
That was a fluke as the GN's had a pretty strong 8.5" 10 bolt corporate rear. I've seen them stay together well into the 10's.
I may be wrong here, but didn't the GN's have that mechanical limited slip unit with the governor and the tiny flyweights they called the "Eaton Locker". Seems like I remember all those delicate little parts blew apart and got caught in various places locking up bearings and blowing the cases apart. I am sure we had more than 1 GN come in with the rear blown apart. Again my memory is a little foggy on this but I think I remember a customer bringing in his own old school case and wanting us to install it in place of that locker unit. Otherwise, I agree, that 8.5" should have been able to survive that power level.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	MLocker-g80.jpg
Views:	16
Size:	48.3 KB
ID:	507895  

  #40  
Old 03-13-2019, 04:12 PM
#1965GTO #1965GTO is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Mesquite, Nevada
Posts: 29
Default Our GN

In 86 I bought an 86 GN from a GM executive. It had just a few 1000 miles on it. They had a 16 old son that took it out and got nabbed doing 90. So we got a pretty good deal. That car had an open rear end but the big housing. A standard Eaton type fit right in and worked good. We sold it to my brother-in-law a couple of years ago and still wish we had room for it. The car still only has 44K on it.

Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:26 AM.

 

About Us

The PY Online Forums is the largest online gathering of Pontiac enthusiasts anywhere in the world. Founded in 1991, it was also the first online forum for people to gather and talk about their Pontiacs. Since then, it has become the mecca of Pontiac technical data and knowledge that no other place can surpass.

 




Copyright © 2017