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THE LOBBY A gathering place. Introductions, sports, showin' off your ride, birthday-anniversary-milestone, achievements, family oriented humor. |
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#21
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" Oh, why would someone buy me at a premium, then put me away in a dark, dust covered barn. I want to get out on the road and run with the rest of the pack, and live up to my potential"
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#22
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I could never understand the fascination with those cars.
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#23
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If you've driven one, you would understand. They are a blast to drive
__________________
Frank Szymkowski 1969 GTO Judge Warwick blue/blue, RAIII, 4 speed, tach/gauges, Safe T track, 3.55's, ps and radio. 1971 Torino 351c 4v GT convertible. White on white with black interior 4 speed, shaker, am/fm, ps/pdb, buckets/console, ac. One of 26 made |
#24
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Im with you. I think theyre neat looking, and im sure they run like stink, I just never got caught up in them. Or the Monte Carlo SS cars. Have always like f bodies. I did a job a year ago and there was a large garage in the backyard. Im always on the lookout for cars and lo and behold there as a GN under a cover. I asked the realtor I was working for about it, and it wasn't for sale. No biggie, I thought if I could get it for a good price what the heck.
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#25
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I think the fascination is similar mostly that they are heralded as a 2nd coming of performance. After a long dead period they were one of the first cars that were fast again. By todays standards they are tame but what isn't. Similar to the 1964 GTO for being the first Muscle Car.
People can argue the semantics of it, just like you can for what truly started the muscle car era. I mean the L98 3rd Gen cars I think are under-rated. But perception becomes reality. Those all black turbocharged Buicks are generally known as the baddest thing from the 80s. Performance began increasing across the board shortly afterwards. I don't particularly love 80s G Body styling. But the GNs are certainly iconic. I cant think of very many other cars that I will actively get angry if I see repainted something other than black.
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1967 Firebird 462 580hp/590ftlbs 1962 Pontiac Catalina Safari Swapped in Turd of an Olds 455 Owner/Creator Catfish Motorsports https://www.youtube.com/@CatfishMotorsports |
#26
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I think there are several factors at work here. 1. It's a Buick. Cars designed for people 75 years old and older. "the last car you will ever own" should have been their motto. BUT every 25 years or so, they come out with a model that is just fantastic and so out of character with their "brand", it can't be ignored. 1938 Buick Century 8, 1970 Stage 1 cars and GSX , 86-87 Grand Nationals. GNX. If you are a Buick fan, your pickings are as slim as AMC almost. 2. The timing was perfect for this car much like the SD-455 Trans Am. The GN's were so far ahead of all the competition, it was ridiculous to even compare. A small efficient V-6, sequential port fuel injection, distributerless ignition, turbocharged, super high tech for the time. I remember going to our local drag strip in 1986 and watching a brand new Corvette and a GN run them off. The GN won by damn near 1/2 track. 25+ car lengths. We were all just standing there with our jaws dragging the ground. And it was silent.
That's what all the excitement is about in my opinion. Buick hasn't built a car that will be remembered in any meaningful way since. So in a way, it's the last great Buick. There is value in that. |
#27
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Quote:
__________________
Frank Szymkowski 1969 GTO Judge Warwick blue/blue, RAIII, 4 speed, tach/gauges, Safe T track, 3.55's, ps and radio. 1971 Torino 351c 4v GT convertible. White on white with black interior 4 speed, shaker, am/fm, ps/pdb, buckets/console, ac. One of 26 made |
#28
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As an engine guy, there is one more area about those cars that flat amazes me. If you open one of those engines up what do you find? A bunch of cast iron junk is what you find in there!! How in the heck those little engines stayed together and made that kind of power and much more with stock rotating assemblies defies logic. Cast crankshaft, cast rods, heavy full skirted pistons, iron heads, small valves. You look at it assembled and swear it will be a pile of cast iron kitty litter at 150 HP! But I don't recall any significant engine issues while those cars were popular and being serviced under warranty. The same can't be said for the rear ends. They would literally explode the second you bolted a pair of slicks on them. I remember one being brought in on a flat bed tow truck. Rubber all over the rear quarters but now with stock wheels on it. White haired lady said, "I just don't know what happened?" We opened the trunk and found a bowling ball sized hole right in front of the gas tank! The entire center section had blown apart and the pinion and front of the housing went through the trunk.
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#29
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Buick V6 turbo cranks have deep rolled fillet journals making them much stronger than NA cranks which did not have rolled fillets. NA cranks can't handle forced induction - ask me how i know.
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#30
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Riveras are cool. Best dash ever maybe. the 1957 Buick is the best of the GM tri five offerings IMO. 1958 is second to Pontiac. Nailheads were important for performance in their time too. A popular flathead swap.
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1967 Firebird 462 580hp/590ftlbs 1962 Pontiac Catalina Safari Swapped in Turd of an Olds 455 Owner/Creator Catfish Motorsports https://www.youtube.com/@CatfishMotorsports |
#31
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In 1978 I was an apprentice mechanic at a local Lincoln Mercury dealer. I got assigned to do a Pre-Delivery Inspection (PDI) on a new Bobcat. The Bobcat was the Mercury version of the Ford Pinto. While it was a little more "upscale" than the Pinto, they were basically the same car. I got the car in my stall and some guy comes over to talk to me. He's the new owner, having already purchased the car. He tells me he wants all the protective plastic stuff on the carpet, seats and steering wheel left in place. When I asked why, he said since the Bobcat/Pinto was being discontinued, he purchased the car as an investment. He thinks it's going to go up in value, so he intends to take it home, put it up on jack stands, and store the car and sell it for big money some day. I remember thinking to myself, it's a f-ing Pinto!
Whenever I see cars like this one on eBay, I always wonder what ever became of that Bobcat, and what it might be worth today. |
#32
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[QUOTE=mgarblik;6002057]I think there are several factors at work here. 1. It's a Buick. Cars designed for people 75 years old and older. "the last car you will ever own" should have been their motto. BUT every 25 years or so, they come out with a model that is just fantastic and so out of character with their "brand", it can't be ignored. 1938 Buick Century 8, 1970 Stage 1 cars and GSX , 86-87 Grand Nationals. GNX. If you are a Buick fan, your pickings are as slim as AMC almost. 2. The timing was perfect for this car much like the SD-455 Trans Am. The GN's were so far ahead of all the competition, it was ridiculous to even compare. A small efficient V-6, sequential port fuel injection, distributerless ignition, turbocharged, super high tech for the time. I remember going to our local drag strip in 1986 and watching a brand new Corvette and a GN run them off. The GN won by damn near 1/2 track. 25+ car lengths. We were all just standing there with our jaws dragging the ground. And it was silent.
That's what all the excitement is about in my opinion. Buick hasn't built a car that will be remembered in any meaningful way since. So in a way, it's the last great Buick. There is value in that.[/QUOTE Thanks, that helps me understand the fascination a little better. |
#33
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Quote:
__________________
Frank Szymkowski 1969 GTO Judge Warwick blue/blue, RAIII, 4 speed, tach/gauges, Safe T track, 3.55's, ps and radio. 1971 Torino 351c 4v GT convertible. White on white with black interior 4 speed, shaker, am/fm, ps/pdb, buckets/console, ac. One of 26 made |
#34
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__________________
Frank Szymkowski 1969 GTO Judge Warwick blue/blue, RAIII, 4 speed, tach/gauges, Safe T track, 3.55's, ps and radio. 1971 Torino 351c 4v GT convertible. White on white with black interior 4 speed, shaker, am/fm, ps/pdb, buckets/console, ac. One of 26 made |
#35
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As much as I'd love to dabble in buying and selling cars to make money, I know it's a more shrewd move to get more equity into the homestead... Quote:
The Quad4, as maligned as it was for being noisy, it too marked a huge advancement in technology, and even in 'base' (150hp) trim as built for 1987-1989* out powered a great deal of the V8 cars on the road at the time; (* = 200 special built red on Grey Oldsmobile Cutlass Calais I-Series coupes, and 200 special built red on grey Pontiac Grand Am SE coupes were built at the very end of the 1989 model year to debut the Quad4HO.) Then the Quad4HO came out with thirty extra horsepower; Only to be followed in 1991 with the Oldsmobile only version dubbed "W41" which had yet another 10hp... Between the GN stomping the Corvette, then the TTA stomping the Corvette, and GM really not wanting to tarnish their two-seat-sportscar with a four cylinder powered car, it seems clear why the 250hp turbocharged Quad4 never got the "ok" for production. Two pre-production Turbo Quad4's were built on production cars to pace the Indy 500. Imagine this; 1985-1986 Corvette = 230hp/5.7L V8 1986 GN = 235hp/3.8L V6-T 1987 Corvette = 240hp/5.7L V8 1987 GN = 245hp/3.8L V6-T 1988-1989 Corvette = 245hp/5.7L V8 1989 20th Ann TTA = 245hp/3.8L V6-T 1990-1991 Corvette = 250hp/5.7L V8 1992 Olds Quad4-Turbo = 250hp/2.3L I4-T If GM had kept up on the path that Oldsmobile started with the Quad4, and only gave Quad4 (especially Quad4HO) powered cars to be tested and reviewed by enthusiast publications instead of ones which were happier with a sub-100hp four cylinder powered car - I see no reason why the engine would have gone through it's neutering, and eventual replacement with the European sourced 'Ecotec'... But that's good old GM, don't do anything to take thunder away from the corvette, and little to no regard for PR on new products going through teething... After abandoning the Quad4 because it was deemed as "damaged goods", it took GM twenty years to get a regular production four cylinder engine to match, and barely eclipse the Quad4HO; 1989.5-1992 'LGO' Quad4HO = 180hp 2010-to date 'LAF' Ecotec = 182hp To show how cyclical GM is, look at my now ten model year old daily driver; Factory 260hp; GM Stage 1 = 290hp I have no doubt GM has the ability to make another four cylinder powered car that could stomp my Cobalt, but I don't see them doing it any time soon. Look at the big hoopla last year over the turbo-four powered Camaro 1LE (275hp); The car weighs roughly 500 pounds more than my Cobalt, and makes less power than my car, if I were running the GMS1 tune!? Please. Sorry for the rant... I feel better now.
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1970 Formula 400 Carousel Red paint on Black standard interior A no-engine, no-transmission, no-wheel option car. Quite likely one of few '70 Muncie three speed Formula 400's left. 1991 Grand Am: 14.4 @ 93.7mph (DA corrected) (retired DD, stock appearing) 2009 Cobalt SS: 13.9 @ 103mph (current DD; makes something north of 300hp & 350ft/lbs) |
#36
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#37
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I don’t think it would help sales to have one of those pos ‘s in the showroom.
__________________
1965 Pontiac LeMans. M21, 3.73 in a 12 bolt, Kauffman 461. |
#38
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I had a neighbor when i was a kid that had a new bobcat. Black with gold trim. She was the 'older hot mom' in the 'hood at the time. In retrospect she was maybe 30, 35 tops, blonde and very good looking. We always looked forward to seeing that car coming down the road. Whenever I see or hear of a bobcat I think back to her. LOL
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#39
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I may be wrong here, but didn't the GN's have that mechanical limited slip unit with the governor and the tiny flyweights they called the "Eaton Locker". Seems like I remember all those delicate little parts blew apart and got caught in various places locking up bearings and blowing the cases apart. I am sure we had more than 1 GN come in with the rear blown apart. Again my memory is a little foggy on this but I think I remember a customer bringing in his own old school case and wanting us to install it in place of that locker unit. Otherwise, I agree, that 8.5" should have been able to survive that power level.
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#40
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Our GN
In 86 I bought an 86 GN from a GM executive. It had just a few 1000 miles on it. They had a 16 old son that took it out and got nabbed doing 90. So we got a pretty good deal. That car had an open rear end but the big housing. A standard Eaton type fit right in and worked good. We sold it to my brother-in-law a couple of years ago and still wish we had room for it. The car still only has 44K on it.
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