[george kujanski]

What about corrosion due to use of road salt? It can`t be good. Road salt is not used at airports probably due to corrosion, no?

There are cars with aluminum content on the road...how are they holding up?

George

[Heybuck]

Originally Posted by 455Grandville

Land Rovers have used aluminum bodies since they debuted in the late 40s, but more for the corrosion issues in the UK.

Rover in England were making aircraft during the war. They had the skill in using aluminium for aircraft and steel was very difficult to source straight after the war. Rover was desperate to get back into vehicle production so aluminium was more a materail of convenience than anything else.

Ian

[Transporter]

Originally Posted by george kujanski

What about corrosion due to use of road salt? It can`t be good. Road salt is not used at airports probably due to corrosion, no?

There are cars with aluminum content on the road...how are they holding up?

George

George, I can't speak for cars and pickup trucks, but I will tell you that our semi trailers are all aluminum, frame and all, and these are 2005's with over a million miles on them.

We run ever state in the lower 48, and all year long, they have been the best investment we have made, in the past the steel trailers could never keep paint, and then the steel would start to rust or blister.

If I take on of these aluminum trailers down and have it acid washed (citrus acid) and rinse it off it literally looks new again.

After one year in the elements our steel trailers would start to look ragged.

MY question is, who is Ford's source for aluminum, I think I need to buy some stock.


Stan

[R68GTO]

Novelis and Alcoa will be the primary suppliers of the aluminum used in the F150. Both of these companies also supply much of the current automotive aluminum being used today. Almost every manufacturer in the US uses aluminum on at least one of their vehicles. Mostly hoods, trunk lids, tail gates...all bolt on panels. Making the step to full bodies is more about welding/joining technology than the panel material itself. There has been good advancements in that joining technology from a performance and cost standpoint to make that possible.
How many other models will go to full aluminum? I believe that the pace of conversion will be determined by the ability of the aluminum mills to make the automotive grade sheet. Both Alcoa and Novelis have spent billions adding capacity to take care of current demand. It will take more investment to supply additional models. Other aluminum mills are starting to jump into the automotive sheet market now. It's going to be huge.

[455Grandville]

Originally Posted by Heybuck

Rover in England were making aircraft during the war. They had the skill in using aluminium for aircraft and steel was very difficult to source straight after the war. Rover was desperate to get back into vehicle production so aluminium was more a materail of convenience than anything else.

Ian

Rover (or BMC) also mastered production of the aluminum 3.5 V8 aka the Buick 215.

GM had a scrap rate at one time of 8 out of 10 blocks due to core shift.

Rover supposedly had no such problems, and the engine was in production until a

few years ago -

[455Grandville]

Originally Posted by Transporter

MY question is, who is Ford's source for aluminum, I think I need to buy some stock.


Stan

That's what I'm thinking - this may become a trend with other auto makers

[MikeNoun]

I would be curious as to how durable an aluminum body will. I realize the thickness of the F-150 aluminum body is not going to be as thin as it was on the old 1963-era Pontiacs, but I'd hate to be the guy that just bought an F-150, and a few teenagers are walking by and one says, "That's the truck that's made out of aluminum.", and the other kid gives it a mild punch and puts a huge dent in the fender.

Being a workhorse truck, it's going to dent easily, and frequently. Ford better make sure they aren't shooting themselves in their collective feet here. They may think it's a huge plus to have aluminum bodies, but 5 years down the road, when nearly every F-150 workhorse truck is pock marked with dents, it won't be very good advertising.

Aluminum bodies seem to be ok on exotic or rarely driven cars that are babied, but I'm not so sure it's ok on a work truck.

At least Ford is doing something with the $5.9 billion dollar ATVM government loan they received back in 2009, eh?

[Transporter]

Originally Posted by MikeNoun

I would be curious as to how durable an aluminum body will. I realize the thickness of the F-150 aluminum body is not going to be as thin as it was on the old 1963-era Pontiacs, but I'd hate to be the guy that just bought an F-150, and a few teenagers are walking by and one says, "That's the truck that's made out of aluminum.", and the other kid gives it a mild punch and puts a huge dent in the fender.

Being a workhorse truck, it's going to dent easily, and frequently. Ford better make sure they aren't shooting themselves in their collective feet here. They may think it's a huge plus to have aluminum bodies, but 5 years down the road, when nearly every F-150 workhorse truck is pock marked with dents, it won't be very good advertising.

Aluminum bodies seem to be ok on exotic or rarely driven cars that are babied, but I'm not so sure it's ok on a work truck.

At least Ford is doing something with the $5.9 billion dollar ATVM government loan they received back in 2009, eh?

I thought the same thing when I first heard about it, but supposedly, Ford gave several current year trucks with aluminum panels to mines, construction companies and oil field workers and told them to treat them like any other truck.

Again, supposedly, Ford is using varying thicknesses of material in different places, they say the aluminum bed floor is supposed to be more dent resistant that the steel one it replaces.

I guess we will see?

I was disappointed to hear that the 6.2 V8 is NOT going to be available in the new trucks, I was thing a reg. cab short bed aluminum truck with the 6.2 would be quite a sleeper.

[keith k]

Originally Posted by MikeNoun

I would be curious as to how durable an aluminum body will. I realize the thickness of the F-150 aluminum body is not going to be as thin as it was on the old 1963-era Pontiacs, but I'd hate to be the guy that just bought an F-150, and a few teenagers are walking by and one says, "That's the truck that's made out of aluminum.", and the other kid gives it a mild punch and puts a huge dent in the fender.

Being a workhorse truck, it's going to dent easily, and frequently. Ford better make sure they aren't shooting themselves in their collective feet here. They may think it's a huge plus to have aluminum bodies, but 5 years down the road, when nearly every F-150 workhorse truck is pock marked with dents, it won't be very good advertising.

Aluminum bodies seem to be ok on exotic or rarely driven cars that are babied, but I'm not so sure it's ok on a work truck.

At least Ford is doing something with the $5.9 billion dollar ATVM government loan they received back in 2009, eh?

Mike, if you read Ford's press release, you'll see that the company has done extensive testing for dent resistance (exterior panels and the inner surfaces of the bed), and the aluminum is actually better than the steel. A significant contributor is that it's much thicker than the steel panels. Those old aluminum Pontiacs were made of a much thinner aluminum, because Pontiac didn't make dedicated tools to form the aluminum - they just put the aluminum blanks in the steel dies.

[MikeNoun]

Ok, sounds good! I just thought that aluminum was going to dent easier than steel, and these being work trucks (and tough ones at that), they would have a ton of cratered F-150's soon. But it looks like Ford did their homework!

Still curious where they are sourcing the aluminum from? If they are using recycled aluminum as a part of the process, would the aluminum supplier(s) be in America? Could Alcoa (Reynolds) be involved? I know they fell on hard times during the latest recession, would be nice to see them recover, rather than having Taiwanese or Chinese aluminum sourced in.

[keith k]

Originally Posted by Transporter

I was disappointed to hear that the 6.2 V8 is NOT going to be available in the new trucks, I was thing a reg. cab short bed aluminum truck with the 6.2 would be quite a sleeper.

For what it's worth, you can't get a 6.2 in a regular cab / short bed on the current truck, either. It's available only on the loaded versions of the 4-door cabs.

My current DD is an XL regular cab, short bed, 4x2 with a 5.0 V8 and the electronic locking diff... and it's definitely a sleeper, plus that engine just sounds killer when it winds out. I plan to take it to the track in the Spring just to see if it gets into the 13s. Sure feels like it can.

An aluminum version would only be that much better - very tempting!

[455Grandville]

Originally Posted by Transporter

I thought the same thing when I first heard about it, but supposedly, Ford gave several current year trucks with aluminum panels to mines, construction companies and oil field workers and told them to treat them like any other truck.

Again, supposedly, Ford is using varying thicknesses of material in different places, they say the aluminum bed floor is supposed to be more dent resistant that the steel one it replaces.

I guess we will see?

I was disappointed to hear that the 6.2 V8 is NOT going to be available in the new trucks, I was thing a reg. cab short bed aluminum truck with the 6.2 would be quite a sleeper.

In the road tests I saw in similar trucks the 6.2 was somewhere around 3 or 4/10th slower in the 1/4 mile than the Ecoboost.

I dunno what it is about oilfield and quarry trucks; it's as if they're on a mission to dent every panel they can.

[Transporter]

Originally Posted by keith k

For what it's worth, you can't get a 6.2 in a regular cab / short bed on the current truck, either. It's available only on the loaded versions of the 4-door cabs.

My current DD is an XL regular cab, short bed, 4x2 with a 5.0 V8 and the electronic locking diff... and it's definitely a sleeper, plus that engine just sounds killer when it winds out. I plan to take it to the track in the Spring just to see if it gets into the 13s. Sure feels like it can.

An aluminum version would only be that much better - very tempting!

Yeah Keith, I know you can't get a 6.2 in the reg. cabs now, but at least if it was an option in the other 2015's it would make a swap easy. I will agree with you that 5.0 sounds good.

I have a 2006 Lincoln LT as my daily driver with the 5.4, and I think the 5.0 is stronger. BTW, had to pickup a Raptor from Roush in Ann Arbor about 4 months ago, it had the 6.2 in it, and I believe it had a screw on it, that thing sounded awesome.

It was raining lightly, had a hell of a time (in 2wd) getting it on the trailer, kept wanting to light up the tires.

[R68GTO]

Check post 24. Novelis and Alcoa will supply the aluminum. The mechanical/chemical properties of the aluminum provide the dent resistance that will keep owners from having a worse experience than with steel bodies.

Originally Posted by MikeNoun

Ok, sounds good! I just thought that aluminum was going to dent easier than steel, and these being work trucks (and tough ones at that), they would have a ton of cratered F-150's soon. But it looks like Ford did their homework!

Still curious where they are sourcing the aluminum from? If they are using recycled aluminum as a part of the process, would the aluminum supplier(s) be in America? Could Alcoa (Reynolds) be involved? I know they fell on hard times during the latest recession, would be nice to see them recover, rather than having Taiwanese or Chinese aluminum sourced in.

[hurryinhoosier62]

My question is if the body is aluminum and the frame is steel, have the engineers at Ford thought about galvanic corrosion?

George,

You are correct. Road salt isn't used on runways and taxiways due to its corrosive effects on aluminum airframes, not to mention what it does to magnesium control surfaces and landing gear components.

[Bob Dillon]

Originally Posted by george kujanski

What about corrosion due to use of road salt? It can`t be good. Road salt is not used at airports probably due to corrosion, no?

No, the crystals are large enough to cause foreign object damage (FOD) to jet engines.

[hurryinhoosier62]

Originally Posted by Bob Dillon

No, the crystals are large enough to cause foreign object damage (FOD) to jet engines.

I hate to do this, Dillon, but WRONG. The crystals are more than fine enough to be captured by the particle separators. The main reason is corrosion prevention.

[Alvin]

My solution would have been Cathodic Protection for cars (trucks), but...

http://www.clihouston.com/knowledge-...-for-cars.html

Interesting to read this is "Snake Oil" for automobiles:


Electronic rust prevention for cars

The basic principle of cathodic protection is very simple. A metal dissolution is reduced through the application of a cathodic current. Cathodic protection is often applied to coated structures, with the coating providing the primary form of corrosion protection. The CP current requirements tend to be excessive for uncoated systems.

The science of cathodic protection (CP) was born in 1824 when Sir Humphrey Davy made a presentation to the Royal Society of London and he succeeded in protecting copper against corrosion from seawater by the use of iron anodes. This first application of CP dates back to 1824, long before its theoretical foundation was established. Cathodic protection has probably become the most widely used method for preventing the corrosion deterioration of metallic structures in contact with any forms of electrolytically conducting environments, i.e. environments containing enough ions to conduct electricity such as soils, seawater and basically all natural waters. Cathodic protection basically reduces the corrosion rate of a metallic structure by reducing its corrosion potential, bringing the metal closer to an immune state.

Electronic corrosion protection for cars

To protect your precious vehicle you have become the perfect target of those snake oil merchants that prefer the green in your pocket than to sell you a honest service that achieves the intended purpose. No sweat, you can beat good old corrosion with a little magic powder and, of course, the green in your wallet. Here is something we have to say about the uselessness of these devices that go by different names, technical descriptions, glossy brochures, and glitzy Web sites.

Cathodic protection (CP), which is the real name of the technique these profiteers are trying to sell you, has been used with success to protect against corrosion on many structures and systems including sea going ships, buried pipelines, and even reinforced concrete. However, there is an area where the technique has no chance to work, the protection of cars. Human nature being what it is, many entrepreneurs have tried to use the visible successes of CP to make money by offering car owners devices to achieve such protection. They typically offer these snake oil devices at a price that could be reasonable if it did indeed work. In reality, the gizmos they offer are a lost in the suckers pocket and a gain in the entrepreneur crooks bank account. And watch out, they will disguise the same old gadgets with new patents and glitzy technical names, even throwing in a microprocessor.

The causes: These gadgets do not work

One has to understand the principle of CP to understand that the technique works by forcing a protective flow of electrons to the metal that needs protection. For this process to work, you need a complete electrical circuit to bring the electrons back. In the case of an outboard motor on a boat, the sea water completes the circuit. In the case of a bridge, the wet soil completes the circuit.

But in your car, the only way to complete the circuit on all the metal in your car is to drive into seawater or be buried in soil! There are various products on the market claiming to provide cathodic electrochemical protection to your car, just by injecting electrons into your metal work - but they don't work. Countries like Canada and the U.S.A. have actually got court orders to stop these products from being sold - simply because they don't work. In your car, there are lots of little nooks and crannies where dirt and/or water can collect. The rust happens not where the metal is dry, nor where the metal is wet - but at the interface between the wet and dry metal. So if you screwed a bunch of anodes right on the interface or one or two millimeters thereof, you would protect your car. But you would need thousands of these anodes over your car.

Modern car manufacturers often do a process called zinc electroplating on the entire chassis of the car. So long as the zinc is complete, the car will not rust. Your best bet is to regularly clean out all the drain holes so that the water can't collect, scrape off any mud that has collected so that metal does not rust away underneath the mud, and remove the leaves and dirt. And of course, once you've washed the car, you should always take it for a drive so that any trapped water can slosh out.

INTRODUCTION TO AUTOMOTIVE CORROSION
Electronic corrosion protection for cars

By the early 1990s more than 50 million automobiles were being manufactured worldwide annually. Leading manufacturing areas were Japan, the United States, and Western Europe. There was also significant production in Eastern Europe and Latin America. The automotive industry is so vast that it influences, directly or indirectly, most of the people on Earth.

In industrial nations the level of automobile production has become a barometer of the economy and is closely watched by political leaders and business analysts. Changes in auto production directly affect the large steel, aluminum, petroleum, and rubber industries and their suppliers and employees.

The corrosion of the most popular vehicle ever used in the history of mankind is a major concern to all of us. Unfortunately the corrosion problems are numerous and the solutions not well understood by the majority of car owners.

Corroded car in an embarrassing position

On a positive note, the number of people driving cars that are more then ten years old has risen from 32% to 44% in the last five years (circa 2004), which means that there are an awful lot of people out there that rely on the purchase of a used car to provide them with day to day transportation. In most cases a ten year old car has had at least two, possibly three owners. In some ways, it is a major credit to the car industry that cars now last so long. However, most manufacturers do not seem to care much what happens to almost half the population when the warranty expires. No doubt, the dealers all rub their hands with glee at the prospect of all those extra repairs and the parts manufacturers can look forward to a lot of extra sales in the after market.
This module will try to correct the difficulties associated with maintaining a car free of corrosion worries in the harshest conditions.

Cathodic protection works on cars

U.S. consumers, businesses, and government organizations own more than 200 million registered motor vehicles. Assuming the average value of an automobile is $5,000, the total investment Americans have made in motor vehicles can be estimated at $1 trillion. Since the 1980s, car manufacturers have increased the corrosion-resistance of vehicles by using corrosion-resistant materials, employing better manufacturing processes, and designing corrosion-resistant vehicles. Although significant progress has been made, further improvement can be achieved in corrosion resistance of individual components. The total annual direct cost of corrosion is estimated at $23.4 billion, which is broken down into the following three components: (1) increased manufacturing costs due to corrosion engineering and the use of corrosion-resistant materials ($2.56 billion per year), (2) repairs and maintenance necessitated by corrosion ($6.45 billion per year), and (3) corrosion-related depreciation of vehicles ($14.46 billion per year).

[Sidponcho]

Shave 750lbs off any vehicle and keep the same power train choices....nevermind the fuel economy.....the driver will see a SIGNIFICANT improvement in get-up-N-go

[Transporter]

Originally Posted by Sidponcho

Shave 750lbs off any vehicle and keep the same power train choices....nevermind the fuel economy.....the driver will see a SIGNIFICANT improvement in get-up-N-go

I was staring to get quite a piston slap in my Lincoln LT at 200,000 so about 2 months ago I swapped it for a 2014 with the 5.0 all I can say is, What a motor!!

21mpg and it sounds like a street race Mustang, I really wanted to wait for the 2015, but my dealer didn't think I could get one until around Feb, as he said orders were already stacking up.