[GTOLIB]

I had posted on another thread about paint codes .The code on this car was odd and now that I have the PHS info still not 100%.
On the data plate it has (and see picture) B 1 - 53 2
PHS says it special order paint code 1 ,ok
box for color has 12 ,, 1 special paint ,black v top ,, ok

I search all 68 GM paint codes ,,, 53
came up with Buick 53 Midnight Teal,
B Buick 1 sp Paint Code 53 ???
now looking at the car I found a green on the floor boards,(see picture)
it also has a chrome bumper 647
Does anyone agree that this could be a the color , I believe it is ,just want a opinion?

Now a question about HO s.
PHS says this a is HO {348} block,{358}4spd close ratio,{363} 3.90gr

How many HOs possibly had a chrome bumpers,
plus it states ,,code 494 Rally Stripes ,(never seen them myself) deluxe hub caps
Also does anyone know what code 37P is for or means

thanks Rob

[68gtoMN]

2102 had 647 Endura delete. I don't know if this was ever broken down by engine/trans/rear gear attributes. Was a fairly early V8 car from Baltimore (7,023rd V8 car), supporting the Endura Delete request (usually attributed to early paint adherence issues with endura, later corrected).

Color could be - there are almost infinite possibilities if someone wanted to go through the hassle of requesting a special color. In Mythbuster-speak, I deem it Plausible.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Cant think of ever having seen a special paint tag that broke down / deciphered that way -- but i think you have nailed it down correctly.

37P - P is the axle ratio = should work out to 3.90

Local guy has a 68 HO 4spd well optioned with Chrome Nose. (Red-White interior)
Few months back someone asked about that breakdown - HO Chromie
unknown

Good Work
Cool Car too !

The suppliers provided the enduras in color.
One off's were prohibitive.
The adhesion problem was between getting aftermarket paint to bond to the factory color coating.
The supplier didn't use lacquer , or even a routine paint substrate.
Forgot what it was they used .... North told us - a buddy of his worked at the supplier back then.

[Peje]

PPG say: B 53 13515= Specific Riviera Colors.

[GTOLIB]

thanks guys , Does anyone know what color the rally strips where.I only found white and black. Anyone have pictures.
the car also had power antenna,hood tach ,rally gauges/clock

[Diego]

The only Endura numbers I know by engine are the 16 Ram Air cars. Nothing else exists that I know.

[north]

If you look at the 68 color chip card the back side should show all the different applications for each color (interior trim, wheel color, paint striping). I have only ever seen white or black on factory photos or original paint 68-69's but I never researched what other stripe colors were ever offered.

Pontiac implied that the endura delete was for clients who wanted a traditional bumper but in reality it was just a way to ship more GTO's while they figured out how to solve quality issues with the Endura bumpers early in the model year. This also created the opportunity to order special order paint that would have otherwise been unavailable on a GTO, as in your car.

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by north

Pontiac implied that the endura delete was for clients who wanted a traditional bumper but in reality it was just a way to ship more GTO's while they figured out how to solve quality issues with the Endura bumpers early in the model year. This also created the opportunity to order special order paint that would have otherwise been unavailable on a GTO, as in your car.

In support of this thought I can comment that we had to have the endura bumper painted no less than 4 times on our early Pontiac built '68 GTO, due to adhesion and cracking issues.

K

[68gtoMN]

Originally Posted by Keith Seymore

In support of this thought I can comment that we had to have the endura bumper painted no less than 4 times on our early Pontiac built '68 GTO, due to adhesion and cracking issues.

K

Keith, if you still have the car, I can only imagine the frustration this situation must have caused. Were I in your shoes, I would quickly sell it to the first person (ahem) who came along looking to soothe your pain....

;-)

[mgreen0104]

Hello ,
I have a 68 Endurance delete 68 Chrome nose H.O. car. I'd like to inform you that in the GTO collector's guide. It says there where only 16 Chrome nose H.O. cars made in 1968. Does your car have a split bench seat with a 4-speed? Mine came that way in liberty blue paint. I don't mind sending or posting pics of this info. But the truth is they are EXTREMELY rare if its a chrome nose H.O. car ! Honestly I wouldn't think of selling mine. Just wanted to pass on some info I've found. Hope this helps.

[north]

I don't have the stats in front of me but this doesn't make sense. The HO engine was not rare in 68, I think over 10,000 or 1 in 8 cars. So you'd expect there to be a few hundred HO cars with chrome noses. 16 sounds more like what you'd expect the number to be for RA cars with the chrome beak.

[mgreen0104]

Originally Posted by north

I don't have the stats in front of me but this doesn't make sense. The HO engine was not rare in 68, I think over 10,000 or 1 in 8 cars. So you'd expect there to be a few hundred HO cars with chrome noses. 16 sounds more like what you'd expect the number to be for RA cars with the chrome beak.

Sorry about that. Stand corrected. It is only 16 Ram Air 68's with the chrome beak!

[The Boss]

There were over 1000 RA I & II GTOs built in 68 - only 16 of those got the chrome nose? Where is that statistic from?

[mgreen0104]

The Collector's Guide to GTO by Paul Zazarine is where my information is from. What is your email address? I'll send you some info.

[GTOLIB]

I found it says only 16 RA cars ,but there where 6197 HOs , just wonder how many with Chrome bumper.
out of 87,684 that still a good number ,not trying to put a value on the car.
I have known the car and owner for all my life ,he just passed away.We always wondered if it was delete car ,never checked after 30 years.
Now we find out it was a HO close ratio,3.90 with SP and chrome bumper
kind of shocked ,talk with the 2nd owner and found out the org motor blew ,(crank broke in 3 places and through the block).sold the trans + rear,,,, all back in the 70s.
It had a BBC in it the rest of it's life,now back to a 400 and working on getting back to road ready.

Any pictures of a Rally Stripes ?

[north]

6197 is manual HO hardtops! The total is over ten thousand.

16 kind of makes sense for RA cars, chrome cars were 2- 3% of GTo's so 2-3% of 1,000 is 20-30. 16 is a bit lower but well within statistical chance, especially when early production is to build dealer inventory, not many dealers would order high priced low drivability RA cars for lot inventory.

[GTOLIB]

Originally Posted by north

6197 is manual HO hardtops! The total is over ten thousand.

16 kind of makes sense for RA cars, chrome cars were 2- 3% of GTo's so 2-3% of 1,000 is 20-30. 16 is a bit lower but well within statistical chance, especially when early production is to build dealer inventory, not many dealers would order high priced low drivability RA cars for lot inventory.

Yes I know this is a manual/hardtop,but only 2108 cars had chrome bumpers How many could possibly be HO.

[north]

If chrome cars were 3% of total production than 3% of 7,000 would be about 200 or so chrome HO stick cars.

While this makes it a relatively rare car I would suspect that the chrome nose subtracts rather than adds to the value. The endura nose was the focal point of the 68 GTO so not having that takes away something.

I think it is a similar situation to a 72 post coupe or a bench seat GTO, neat and rare but not adding to value.

[Diego]

Three points:

1. The 16 Ram Air cars came from Fred Simmonds.

2.

Originally Posted by north

If chrome cars were 3% of total production than 3% of 7,000 would be about 200 or so chrome HO stick cars.

Personally, I don't like this kind of statistical analysis because it's always going to be wrong.

The 3% is taken from total production. Applying a total production percentage to a smaller sample like 7,000 is always going to be wrong.

3. I feel the OP is grasping at straws in an attempt to find a certain rarity factor. We get it - it's a chrome-nosed GTO with one of the better engines. You're gonna have your hands full explaining to peeps that it's a GTO without having to explain to them a production number that currently doesn't exist.

[dataway]

Personally I believe that a GTO with a chrome nose is a Lemans with a GTO engine.

But I only say that because I am a Endura/Hideaway snob.

JohnnyB