[PAUL K]

Originally Posted by Murf

OK, thank you Paul. I was unaware that any engine builder would cover collateral damage caused by a defective aftermarket part. That is what your saying isn’t it. That you, the builder, would cover the damage. Not the manufacturer.

What is the name of your business & where are you located? I’ve seen you post good advice on here a lot but I’ve never seen you mention your company name. Was unaware you were a builder.

I’m going to need a 455 built soon & am looking for a hood builder. Can you actually sell me ready to run Edelbrock round ports set up right for $3,200.

Thanks again!

Murf

Yes, I believe you understood me correct. I know of several shops including my own that stand behind our work. Sometime "stuff happens". I always ask myself, who did what wrong and try to work out a solution from there. Most of the time all parties involved realize if they give a little, it turns a crap situation into an acceptable one. Sometimes the manufacturer will step to the plate also. Holley was willing to work with us on an engine that had a melt down because a Q-16 carburetor was ordered and a race fuel carburetor was delivered.

Not sure what current pricing will be on Edelbrock heads. I've had a pallet full on order for twenty two months and we haven't seen them I'm being told January... Which will be an even two years.

The FB link at the bottom of my post will take you to my shop.... You don't have to be a member.

[PAUL K]

Originally Posted by grandam1979

I was going from your post in the speedmasters cnc thread you made your opinion very clear or did I miss understand them? With that said no chit starting just following what you said if I miss understood sorry.

Sorry for a confusion with my posts in regards to my opinion on SM heads. They are what they are. I made a thread trying to convey that. They're probably a bargain at Holiday pricing but a slap in the face to their dealers. I pointed out in the thread I started about them the major flaw in the casting that limits their power output. I bought a set I wanted to try on a 446 CID nitrous engine. They have a feature that would probably help power output on a stock block build but after looking at them and reading the supplement warning about porting the heads may cause the valve seats to fall out I put the project on hold. I have three options, fix the flaw, run them and keep my fingers crossed or use them for a different build.... But I never meant to imply they were garbage.

[Murf]

Originally Posted by PAUL K

Yes, I believe you understood me correct. I know of several shops including my own that stand behind our work. Sometime "stuff happens". I always ask myself, who did what wrong and try to work out a solution from there. Most of the time all parties involved realize if they give a little, it turns a crap situation into an acceptable one. Sometimes the manufacturer will step to the plate also. Holley was willing to work with us on an engine that had a melt down because a Q-16 carburetor was ordered and a race fuel carburetor was delivered.

Not sure what current pricing will be on Edelbrock heads. I've had a pallet full on order for twenty two months and we haven't seen them I'm being told January... Which will be an even two years.

The FB link at the bottom of my post will take you to my shop.... You don't have to be a member.

Thanks Paul!

[Formulas]

To me when i hear the word blem i think cosmetic and cosmetic only, NOT a high probability of a failure point a miss cut seat area is a manufacturing defect to me out of spec pocket for a seat to be inserted

So your definition of a blem No i would not buy but purely cosmetic i would consider

blemish
blĕm′ĭsh
noun
A small mark that makes the appearance of something less attractive.
An imperfection that mars or impairs; a flaw.
A defect, flaw, or imperfection; something that mars beauty, completeness, or perfection.
The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, 5th Edition.

That definition is more about beauty than function

.

[Dragncar]

Well, since the seats being correctly installed is the most important thing on a cylinder head preventing catastrophic engine damage. Nope, its a time bomb.
I even had my High Ports ordered without seats and guides so SD could do the work.

[NeighborsComplaint]

Originally Posted by PAUL K

I'm curious with all the talk about bargain cylinder heads this time of the year, I would like your answer to the following and embrace any comments with your thoughts or reasoning.

You've been putting money aside to upgrade your favorite Pontiac with a pair of bolt on aluminum heads for this Christmas Season. You go to your favorite engine builder and are offered a pair of heads complete, ready to bolt on for $3200 using all top shelf parts with all the bells and whistles. The builder also offers you an identical set of heads but they are blemished. They had a problem with a cutter and the seats may not of pressed in properly. They have the potential that the seat may fall out of the head and do little to severe damage to your engine. You are offered these blem heads for $2300.

I consider a blem a cosmetic issue that does not affect the product's performance. Those heads are not cosmetic blems, they are not even functional cylinder heads. If you're a machinist and your time is your own, you may be able to install new seats. If you're an average consumer, it's a sucker's bet as it may cost you as much to make those heads servicable as buying new ones (with warranty). The manufacturer is between a rock and a hard place, stuck with a set of unsaleable heads. His options are scrap them or find a sucker or someone with the wherewithal to refurbish them, to buy them at a reduced price. Some people can't resist a bargain, the thrill of that diamond in the rough that often turns out to be worthless. There's too much maybe involved involved and the manufacturer has already determined the cost of refurbishment exceeds any chance of a break even on them in his decision to sell them as-is.

[72projectbird]

Originally Posted by Murf

So, your sayin that if I spend the $3200, the heads are guaranteed not too have any defects now and in the future? Where do I sign up?

Murf

That's how I feel. Plenty of new heads have dropped seats, so saying a blemished head might drop a seat isn't anything I'd worry about too much.

[NeighborsComplaint]

Originally Posted by 72projectbird

That's how I feel. Plenty of new heads have dropped seats, so saying a blemished head might drop a seat isn't anything I'd worry about too much.

Until it happens.

[Jay S]

Occasionally there will be heads for sale that have some porosity in a spot or two and they are sold as a blem head. You know up front there will be welding involved to get it ready, or has already had welding done.


I have had a seat fall out of the head from getting the engine hot on a 454. I didn’t save much of anything. When you build an engine you never plan on over heating it. For me when the seat insert is what makes it a blem. I am wanting to scream.

RUN FORREST! RUN!

[blueghoast]

Repairing a seat in a head isn't a big deal, Machine shops do it all the time.
I bought a set of new bare ED heads and one seat wasn't seated all the way.
My machine buddy fixed it for me on the spot.
If the problem was that bad I don't think it would be offered anyway.
My self I would buy them.

GT

[Dragncar]

Here is my deal. I do not like the fact that I have a crank and a set of rods that originated in China, even if they were machined here.
American iron is a good goal to have.
I have 2 sets of American aluminum heads. One with extensive porting and the other with mild porting.
The High Ports with the mild port job will at some point have a extensive port job.
I am all about the port work.
If I can not have a real port job done and have the head structural integrity of the head intact, I will not own the heads.
But for the guy who wants a 500 HP cruiser I am sure the SM heads are fine.
Myself, if I am going after 500 HP I would run iron heads all the way.

[t money]

Have not been on the forum for sometime, So has any one on this forum or know anyone in Pontiac land of a SpeedMaster PONTIAC head losing a valve seat. Now I know it happens with there other brands. But just asking Pontiac. TY

[Murf]

I think that if the SM’s were a d port at this price point, they would be the ****.

It’s easy to spend more than the SM admission price fixing up 50 yr old iron heads. Buy them bare, then set them up with good parts & roll but I could be wrong .

Murf

[PAUL K]

Originally Posted by t money

Have not been on the forum for sometime, So has any one on this forum or know anyone in Pontiac land of a SpeedMaster PONTIAC head losing a valve seat. Now I know it happens with there other brands. But just asking Pontiac. TY

The Pontiac heads come with a supplemental warning advising that porting may cause valve seats to fall out. I don't know of any that have. See post 77, 78 & 80 in this thread and that is the potential hazard

https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...errerid=134156

[Schurkey]

"Blem" heads from a top-flight manufacturer, AND it does not involve seats falling out, or faulty guides? I'm good with that. (i.e., cosmetic problems, not functional problems.)

"Blem" heads from a bottom-feeder company? Hell, no. Their "good" heads need rework, I can't imagine how bad the "Blems" are. Seats with improper press-fit are not "blemished", they're junk that needs total rework. By the time you pay to fix the seats, and the valve-job afterward, you shoulda/coulda/woulda bought decent heads from a REAL manufacturer instead of dirtbag "aluminum butchers".