[Stretch1224]

hey guys new to this forum , looks awesome tho , im finally redoing my 79 TA that ive had for 30 years ! has a 400 bored .30 over, nice cam , #48 heads, looking to put and FI system with fuel pump and everything but not sure which way to go, any ideas / recommendations are appreciated

[Scott65]

Its a broad topic, but I'll take a shot at it. First, you need to more narrowly define what you're looking to do. Do you just want fuel control, or fuel and timing? Are you looking for a tbi type set up, or port injection? Batch, or sequential? Etc. No matter which, plan for a new fuel system. The in tank set ups are nice, and quieter, and probably over all more reliable. There are options there too, that can depend on what you're trying to do. The Tanks Inc set ups are pretty nice, and reasonably affordable. On the other end of the spectrum you have the Ricks tanks with Vaporworx pwm controlled pumps.
For any of the EFI systems, your electrical system needs to be 100% up to snuff. Including all grounding. This is very much a garbage in garbage out scenario. Once you've narrowed down what you're looking to do, you can search here/ask questions about the particular systems that your interested in. I'll caution that you will find horror stories and success stories about the same units, here and elsewhere. That mostly can be attributed to quality of install issues.

[Stretch1224]

hey scott65, I think I want to go with the tbi set up with the timing ad fuel controls too

[Scott65]

The fitech and sniper seem to be the most popular here. I have no direct experience with either, but hopefully FormulaJones, or JLMounce will see this and respond. They can help compare/contrast the two of those. I've been on a standalone system for several years now. I started my EFI journey with the early model EZEFI from FAST. It worked very well, but was not capable of timing control. This was ~2009. Things have come a long way since then. Many options now.

[JLMounce]

It’ll be hard to go wrong with either a FiTech or a Sniper on that car. The engine likely makes too close to 400 hp to suggest the GoStreet from FiTech which is a basic no frills, no timing control fueling solution.

The FiTech systems now have a 3 year warranty which is kind of nice. That said if you absolutely know you want timing control, I’d probably go Sniper along with their hyper spark and distributor. It’s an all in one solution that makes the timing control setup pretty effortless.

Nothing wrong with the FiTech timing control, you just have to take the time to lockout and phase a distributor.

Choose one of the 600hp capable variants and then make sure it’s backed by a good fuel system. For this type of deal I’d recommend the Tanks Inc fuel tank along with one of their internal fuel pumps. The GPA-4 is the fried and true 255l/hr Walbro pump. It’s quiet, reliable and will support about 630hp in a normally aspirated gasoline situation.

It will however require a return line type fuel system as pwm control will burn it up.

The GPA 5 is a modern pwm controlled 340l/hr pump that would still work decent and give you a lot of room to grow. This pump can be pwm controlled by the ecu and thus have a dead head style fuel system.

Everything Scott mentioned about the vehicle electrical is also critical. If the car has electrical issues now, solve them before you try going to EFI. The same will be true of exhaust leak issues. These areas must be right and true to have success with EFI.

[Scarebird]

go big - sequential port injection with timing control via Edelbrock Pro Flow 4 - worked well for me.

[62posbonny]

I feel the same as above about the pro Flo 4. Once you price out a cheap TBI unit like a sniper, the dual sync distributor and an intake you are right in the same ballpark as the edelbrock. With the pro Flo you get the benefit of sequential port injection and although the tuning parameters are very basic the system just works well.

[Formulajones]

As long as you don't want to do much tuning with it, the pro flo is limited with canned tunes and no lap top tuning. Would work fine on a stockish engine, but if you need to do some tweaking, you're backed into a corner.

[Formulajones]

Like Scott and JLMounce mentioned, what ever you choose, don't cheap out on the fuel system. For sure get an EFI tank and put the tank in the pump, no question.

Don't go down the cheap road with a pump on the frame, or some auxiliary tank up front filled with a mechanical pump, you'll only have issues down the road and more headaches than you want to deal with, and in the end a bad taste for EFI as a result. Unfortunately these EFI systems are marketed that way and it bites more people than I can count.

Do what the OEM's have done since the beginning of EFI and put the pump in the tank. You'll be much happier in the long run.

[roger1]

Originally Posted by Formulajones

As long as you don't want to do much tuning with it, the pro flo is limited with canned tunes and no lap top tuning. Would work fine on a stockish engine, but if you need to do some tweaking, you're backed into a corner.

You start with a canned tune and then adjust from there using an android app on a phone or tablet that works wirelessly.

[JLMounce]

Originally Posted by roger1

You start with a canned tune and then adjust from there using an android app on a phone or tablet that works wirelessly.

This is true, but from what I've seen, the adjustments are still pretty rudimentary with that system. Basic changes up and down to things like fast accel.

Perhaps the system is just that good that fine tuning through software like the Holley's HP lite on the sniper or ProCal on the FiTech may not be needed. I don't know enough about the system to really say on that.

One thing that hasn't been mentioned here that is worth noting. If the OP is using a factory intake, for the FiTech or basic Sniper unit, the intake would need to be changed. It's a bit of work to get these square bore units on the factory intake.

However, in that case, if you didn't want to change the intake, Holley has the SpreadBore "Quadrajet" version of the Sniper available. I'd look in that direction.

[roger1]

I have the ProFlo 4 on my '69 but my car isn't roadworthy yet so I can't do a full review.
So far, I like it but haven't even gone through the procedures to the initial tuning in the instructions yet. Just the canned program they suggested.

It did get good numbers on the dyno at the machine shop who assembled the engine for me. It's a 40 over 400 that is the original 350HP engine. Original heads. Has dished pistons that would make around 9:1 compression. Lunati Voodoo 702 flat tappet cam.
It made 425HP at 5,000 rpm. HP was still climbing but he stopped at that point.
Peak torque 480 ft-lbs at 4,100.

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by roger1

You start with a canned tune and then adjust from there using an android app on a phone or tablet that works wirelessly.

Yes but as JLMounce points out the changes are minimal. Friend of mine ran into this issue. To get more in depth he had to contact Edelbrock and they weren't much help. In the end the system came off for a Holley. I could see a situation where someone could outgrow the system.

Never was a huge fan of wireless tuning with a phone either. Don't much like carrying my phone with me, let along use it for tuning, lol. Too small to read anyway. Tablet could be better for the old eyes, but much rather prefer a laptop and a dedicated program.

That's the big reason I sent back the Compushift trans controller. That is only wireless cell phone tuning and no way at all to even hook up a laptop, so that promptly went back in favor of a US Shift unit.
They really don't market a lot of these systems in a way to answer these types of questions before you buy. Compushift was an example of that. Others are guilty as well.

Keep in mind I'm not knocking the Pro Flo, just pointing out the idiosyncrasies of the system so the OP can make an educated decision.

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by JLMounce

One thing that hasn't been mentioned here that is worth noting. If the OP is using a factory intake, for the FiTech or basic Sniper unit, the intake would need to be changed. It's a bit of work to get these square bore units on the factory intake.

However, in that case, if you didn't want to change the intake, Holley has the SpreadBore "Quadrajet" version of the Sniper available. I'd look in that direction.

I thought FiTech had a spread bore version now?? Maybe not. I was thinking they came out with one recently.

[roger1]

My ProFlo4 came with a tablet. They offer it without too but I bought my setup from YearOne and they had a sale price on the kit with the tablet that was cheaper than the one without.
Anyway, I have 2 other fairly new Samsung tablets so I will keep one in the car. I really like the app they have. It has some cool display features.

I know the Holley HP setups have many more tuning features and I looked at those. I have a friend who is very, very high on those but he's a racer and I'm not. I played with Holley app and felt it would have a long learning curve and I didn't like the idea of spending that much time.
The reviews are very good on the ProFlo4 so I decided to go with the simpler route. It's also a lot cheaper, and an easier install than the Holley HP setup would be.

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by roger1

My ProFlo4 came with a tablet. They offer it without too but I bought my setup from YearOne and they had a sale price on the kit with the tablet that was cheaper than the one without.
Anyway, I have 2 other fairly new Samsung tablets so I will keep one in the car. I really like the app they have. It has some cool display features.

I know the Holley HP setups have many more tuning features and I looked at those. I have a friend who is very, very high on those but he's a racer and I'm not. I played with Holley app and felt it would have a long learning curve and I didn't like the idea of spending that much time.
The reviews are very good on the ProFlo4 so I decided to go with the simpler route. It's also a lot cheaper, and an easier install than the Holley HP setup would be.

That's a good point that I forgot. If you're someone that really doesn't like a lot of tuning, or lack the know how, or don't have a laptop, and don't even want to go down that road of learning, the Pro Flo is a great option.

I know they advertise these FiTech and Holley setups to self learn and promote them as an entry level EFI for the novice, and they do okay at it. However my experience is with the Holley and I can say for sure, they really should be fine tuned. There are tables that need to be addressed with a laptop. The more radical the engine, the more necessary custom tuning is. JLMounce uses FiTech, I know he's done quite a bit of tuning with that as well.

[JLMounce]

FWIW on my FiTech, I've never needed to make tuning edits through the ProCal software. There's enough access via the handheld that for most users it's not needed.

However, the ProCal software allows you to manually alter the various VE tables, breakpoints and see datalogs in a better environment. Not everyone needs to manually alter that stuff though. If all you do is read the feature definitions provided and understand what they are doing, you can certainly create a very good tune for the FiTech with just the handheld controller.

[roger1]

Originally Posted by Formulajones

That's a good point that I forgot. If you're someone that really doesn't like a lot of tuning, or lack the know how, or don't have a laptop, and don't even want to go down that road of learning, the Pro Flo is a great option.

I know they advertise these FiTech and Holley setups to self learn and promote them as an entry level EFI for the novice, and they do okay at it. However my experience is with the Holley and I can say for sure, they really should be fine tuned. There are tables that need to be addressed with a laptop. The more radical the engine, the more necessary custom tuning is. JLMounce uses FiTech, I know he's done quite a bit of tuning with that as well.

You hit the nail on the head with me. I'm really good with both electrical and computer programming and such but I wasn't interested investing the time into a more complicated interface even though it would have more capabilities if I didn't have to. I'm much more interested in good weather cruising with something that sounds healthy and will go if I stab the pedal even though I'll rarely do that. I have no interest in racing and trying to enhance performance other than a few basic things. Another thing is that the more complicated a system is, the more there is to forget and have to re-learn if you don't do anything with it for long periods of time.

[JLMounce]

Originally Posted by roger1

You hit the nail on the head with me. I'm really good with both electrical and computer programming and such but I wasn't interested investing the time into a more complicated interface even though it would have more capabilities if I didn't have to. I'm much more interested in good weather cruising with something that sounds healthy and will go if I stab the pedal even though I'll rarely do that. I have no interest in racing and trying to enhance performance other than a few basic things. Another thing is that the more complicated a system is, the more there is to forget and have to re-learn if you don't do anything with it for long periods of time.

Certainly understand all that. However, I do want to point out that the WOT tuning aspect is typically far easier than drivability tuning.

The things you can really dive deep into from a tuning perspective don't always make the car faster, they make it drive better. If your worry is really great drivability, that's more incentive to actually be able to fine tune things.

My car is a really great example. It's a pretty basic 462 with a moderately sized cam (232/238 112+4) and aftermarket heads. The EFI soaked it up like butter. Then I spent time tuning the DFCO, tip in, tip out and fuel curves and it was like warm butter. Then I added timing control and it got to be like melted butter. Every time I spent a bit of time fine tuning, the car's drivability got better and better, while it still remained a beast when you step on the throttle. It's to the point that the car is so smooth, that I really would like to go up on the cam about 10-12 degrees in duration to put some rawness back into it.

[Formulajones]

To add another perspective to that, the biggest reason for my dive into EFI on one of the classic cars was the ability to change the wot timing with ease.
I actually had the carb very well dialed in with nice drivability but elevation changes would throw a wrench in that when we'd drop 5000 feet to hit the dragstrip.
Now with EFI I can dial it in quicker with the laptop and then save these tunes to simply load in when I want it. Much faster than letting the EFI find the afr on its own and super simple in the pits without even popping the hood.
I also tend to keep learn to a very small percentage for the drivability part once the base table is dialed, and just let it make closed loop corrections for the changing elevation on the fly. Keeps my base table from getting all wonky.
Pretty slick deal for stuff like that.