[PAUL K]

A little off subject but it's been brought up in this thread. In regards to restamped blocks I'm finding it intersting that it doesn't seem to be much of an issue whether a block is a re-stamped or actually the original.

Maybe someone can explain why an original stamped carburetor or distributor sells for good money but restamps are a dime a dozen?

What are folks doing with these OEM carburetors and distributors? I always assumed it was to make an original car correct.... Maybe I'm missing something??

Ram Air V carburetors bring in probably the biggest dough of them all.... I could easily build a different model carburetor that would outperform an original dated RAV carb in everyway, look identical and stamp the correct numbers for about half the going rate. If their are any takers send me a PM. Same goes for Ram Air and Super Duty Q-jets.

[PAUL K]

Originally Posted by joegpho

Well, I didn't mean to stir up a hornet nest regarding original blocks!
(Glad I'm a GP guy. Anyone have a line on a 69 WL Code 428 HO manual transmission block?)
I just want the truth (I can handle it!)
If a block is an SR block but is otherwise correct - fine. A restamp? Fine.
It is just with the amount these cars are going for, I just want full disclosure.
There might be a point that I spend over $100K on a car (doubtful) - but at that level you can bet I will do my research.

I'm grateful that my GP has its "born-with" block - and ditto for my father's 65 421 HO 4spd Catalina.

I'm glad you brought it up. I find the responses interesting. I think the next subject should be re-bodied cars. After all these years I thought that was a big deal. Now it's looking like it wouldn't matter if a million dollar GTO was originally a 350 2 bbl Skylark as long as it has the right VIN and numbers stamped throughout.... Learn something new everyday.

[RamAirBirds]

Originally Posted by PAUL K

I'm glad you brought it up. I find the responses interesting. I think the next subject should be re-bodied cars. After all these years I thought that was a big deal. Now it's looking like it wouldn't matter if a million dollar GTO was originally a 350 2 bbl Skylark as long as it has the right VIN and numbers stamped throughout.... Learn something new everyday.

Now we hit the "Gray" area.
As we know the consensus was that tampering with the VIN tag and relative numbers was a federal offense. Now, I do know that i read not long ago that Barrett Jackson (AKA Grin & Bear it Jackson) was instrumental in helping pass some sort of legislation that made it allowable to "remove" both a body and VIN tag in the process of restoration. This was because the process today of restoring a concourse car made it desirable to remove the VIN during restoration. Also they had many problems over the years with cars being inspected at auction. Can you still buy the rivets on ebay? They used to remove those listings long long ago but i think that they allowed them to stay up in recent years. I have not confirmed this yet. Anyhow this legislation spelled out removing a VIN from a car if it was to be re-installed on the SAME car so.....the idea of Re-Body or using a Lemans to make a Judge is just what is stated at start of topic...Gray.
We all know it happens though.

[PAUL K]

Originally Posted by turbo69bird

And Paul I am not singling you out at all w this post it’s just what I picked to throw an answer up . Please DO NOT take this post personally it’s not directed at you personally.
I’ve felt the same way you have before as have many so it’s a round about answer. My thoughts on this topic are different than they once were .maybe it’s the RAV stuff w no real numbers that changed my thinking IDK.

As I stated I’d likely agree w that if I had a born with block . BUT I also agree that this chasing of original/ matching numbers contributes to the likelihood of restamps .
A hypothetical-
Let’s say I put a as cast C118 block in my car (it was raced w one all it’s life anyway) the buyer KNOWS unequivocally that this IS a real RAII / RAIV L67 intended block . There’s zero question. So what does it matter ? Vs a stamped 2506 which appears to be matching numbers. Maybe it is and maybe it isn’t? Which one makes a BUYER feel all warm and cozy at night. I know which one would make me feel better .
BUT that’s not really what I was getting at originally. What I was getting at was that this discrepancy in original engine (which in some cases I can guarantee you is a pipe dream) prices Vs SR / or correct engine codes pricing , only pours gas on a fire that breeds restamps.

Why should a guy who’s honest and finds a real equivalent engjne whether it be same exact stamp or equal Ww Vs wh , stamp or SR of equal type get docked $$ when the restamped gets all the money?

It’s a flawed system .
And this part isn’t directed at you, but

Why does a guy w an original engine care what the other guy gets for his, Is he petty? Why does it matter, is it that you see it as you didn’t get more, or that you want to see the SR guy get less ? Why? Is it bragging rights?
I don’t understand this concept. I just find it petty.

In the mean time it degrades the hobby by feeding re-stampers money if they do re-stamp

Again just my .02 and my way of looking at it.

Take it for what you will , but use it as food for thought and genuinely ask yourself. Why do you care?

I would think, as more and more of these cars are being bought as an investment anyone interested in that aspect of the hobby or a person owning one of these cars would have at least some interest in what makes one less or more valuable compared to another.

I personally don't care what a car similar to mine with a re-stamped engine might sell for. I do care if the guy handling the sale tilts the playing field so one car that is "original" is advertised the same as another car that isn't "original".

Personally I've found the numbers game and the "correct" a bit humorous over the years. I can't believe that folks have counted the ribs on a valve stem to determine whether is is the correct one for car.

I remember reading a thread about master cylinder casting numbers. A gentleman that seemed to have an awfully nice LS-6 Chevelle was rejoicing (literally) when he found out his car had the correct master cylinder (which required the use of a flashlight and mirror)... So I guess it matters to some folks.

Maybe if none of this matters in this modern age of total transperency the seller should disclose what parts are original, re-stamped or came from a donor car. As long as it doesn't effect the price one would think they would be happy to showcase their talents and let the buyers know what work was actually done to re-create the beauty they are purchasing.

[RamAirBirds]

This link should work.

[EMAIL="https://journal.classiccars.com/2022/07/22/new-vin-law-driven-by-barrett-jackson-goes-into-effect-today/

[RamAirBirds]

Sorry everyone.
Just google
BARRETT JACKSON VIN TAG LEGISLATION.
Lots of info / articles

[PAUL K]

Originally Posted by RamAirBirds

Sorry everyone.
Just google
BARRETT JACKSON VIN TAG LEGISLATION.
Lots of info / articles

Thanks.... I didn't finish Law School but remember altering numbers to increase the value of something fell into a Counterfeiting area. I always thought that would cover stamping VIN numbers on engine blocks to make them appear as original. I guess this thread would be a good argument of how one was really not increasing the value.

[Alan Reed]

Reading this thread, I see it has transitioned from an auction price thread to a re-stamping, re-bodying, re-tagging thread.

Interesting to see the varying and changing ideas and opinions on this subject.

I have been accurately described as a guy with an opinion about most things, and this subject is no exception, but I will not share my opinion here.

But, I do have a question for anyone willing to reply. I am an amateur coin collector and am considering what may described as a coin restoration.

I have this valuable 1913 Buffalo nickel that has had a hard life. It has had extensive use and circulation resulting in significant wear to the front and back of the coin. It is barely recognizable as a 1913 nickel. I suspect if this coin were made from steel, it would have rust, maybe even rust perforation.

Restoring my 1913 nickel is going to be a very big job. I will need to refinish every tiny detail of every shape and surface on both sides. It will take many hours and will be very expensive.

But, none the less it is a valuable coin and worthy of extensive efforts to restore it to it's original splendor. Then I can show it to my coin collecting friends with pride. They might even be complementary of the quality of the restoration. I also could enter my restored nickel in a coin show for others to admire. In the future I may tire of owning this nickel and decide to consign it for sale at a large coin auction venue.

As it happens, I also have a 1914 Buffalo nickel that is in almost perfect uncirculated condition. It's coin features are sharp and fresh and it looks shiny and new. In spite of it's condition, it is not a valuable coin. 1914 nickels are much more common and are easy to find.

Wouldn't it make sense for me to use the 1914 nickel to restore my 1913 nickel? I could very carefully and accurately "re-stamp" that 4 to make it look like a 3. If I do it well enough, even the most experienced coin collectors may not be able to tell the difference. It would even be higher quality because it would have the original coin factory features that would would be impossible to exactly duplicate in a restoration.

If a collector did see that it was a re-stamp, I would explain that the 1914 coin was made in the same factory, on the same equipment, with the same materials, and by the same coin-making people as the 1913 nickel. That original nickel was in bad shape, it would have been much more work to restore it. I could also point out that the original coin features of the 1914 nickel were better than I could have done for the 1913 nickel. Doesn't that make it a "better" nickel? So what is the difference?

And furthermore, that "3" is just a number. I do have title and proof of ownership of the 1913 nickel, so again, what is the difference? Haven't I rewarded the hobby by allowing my fellow collectors to enjoy, discuss, and critique my valuable nickel? And isn't that re-stamped nickel higher quality than the restored original nickel would have been?

So please, share your thoughts and help me decide what to do with my nickels.

Restore, or Re-coin, that is the question.

[Mcronk]

The discussion of restamps and misleading information is pertinent to this thread and auction.

There was a 1971 Trans Am advertised as a Trans Am, announced by the auctioneer as a Trans Am and was in fact a 1971 Jade Green Firebird dressed as a Trans Am. Cowl tag was not a T/A tag nor was model series. Someone paid T/A money for that car. I don't think anyone wants to make that mistake.

Already we have more "Judges" running around than were ever built, same for LS6 Chevelles. This was not the only example of misleading information especially in regards to "original drivetrain". So if one builds a car with the correct parts, but not original, or restamps parts and is transparent about it that is fine. However once that car changes hands there is no guarantee the next owner will be so forthcoming.

[turbo69bird]

Originally Posted by PAUL K

A little off subject but it's been brought up in this thread. In regards to restamped blocks I'm finding it intersting that it doesn't seem to be much of an issue whether a block is a re-stamped or actually the original.

Maybe someone can explain why an original stamped carburetor or distributor sells for good money but restamps are a dime a dozen?

What are folks doing with these OEM carburetors and distributors? I always assumed it was to make an original car correct.... Maybe I'm missing something??

Ram Air V carburetors bring in probably the biggest dough of them all.... I could easily build a different model carburetor that would outperform an original dated RAV carb in everyway, look identical and stamp the correct numbers for about half the going rate. If their are any takers send me a PM. Same goes for Ram Air and Super Duty Q-jets.

I think if it was done absolutely correctly so that even the best of the best couldn’t tell the difference it wouldn’t really matter. it’s the fact that most restamps are later carter .junk carbs etc or clearly not originals Also it’s not really appealed to apples because it woukd have to be taking a REAL 273 and stamping it as another 273 to be equivalent as I suggested . So yeah if you took a 7028273 and restamped it as a 7029273 I’d be fine w it. That’s what I am saying Not taking a 262 or something else and stamping it as a 273
That’s differnt . That’s like what I said before it’s like some knucklehead taking a 350 HO and stamping it as a RAIIi or RAIV.
Like for like, to me shouldn’t matter very much. But my real point was I’d rather see a SR or counter case for a Muncie being counted equal to the original rather than a restamp and if that happened you wouldn’t need a restamp.

I see your point Paul. I really do . Ive felt this way myself, before but if the block didn’t know what it was gonna be stamped when it got there and it could have had 4 different stamps GTO Vs firebird , auto Vs stick then I really don’t see a difference. It’s the same block . (And the elites have been doing this for along time anyway)

I feel the same about a rebody . I’d rather see an all jig welded pintiac body from a 6 popper or 350 or something than I’d want to see a real 400 car rusted to **** welded together w China metal in some clowns backyard. Never had anything to do w a Pontiac factory , not US metal, stitched up by some fool that’s some how better than a rust free all Pontiac all GM metal body ? I don’t see the logic in that . What if you found a brand new fisher body left over never stamped would you use it or throw it away?

I realize there’s some grey area but you have to agree there’s some logic to what I saying as well . I’ve never done either , I’m not even saying I would but in theory it makes more sense in some cases. However the point is what if you did rebody or restamp and it was accepted everyone agreed that if you stamped an honorable XXX after the restamp it wouldn‘t DOC any money or points .shouldn’t that be more honorable? A gentleman’s agreement?? Wouldn’t that kill off the corruption, right quick? Cause I PROMISE you there are people making good damn money off HIDDEN well done, restamps all day every day! This would take it out of the shadows and into a legitimate business model .

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

There was a 1971 Trans Am advertised as a Trans Am, announced by the auctioneer as a Trans Am and was in fact a 1971 Jade Green Firebird dressed as a Trans Am.

oh crap.

That would have been the one with the 400 engine and Automatic AC
80,300 dollars on a no reserve car.
No mention of PHS
But I still see a multi-faceted storm coming on that one.

A real 71 TA Automatic with frame off restore went for 77k earlier that week.
A real car with a fresh frame off and 455 HO engine

Another real 71 TA went for 100k the same day as The Jade

[turbo69bird]

So back to Pontiacs not coins, cause idk anything about coins . But I do have a like new GM firebird wood wheel here. I know people have used reproduction wood wheels on their cars. Is that Ok? Do they have an obligation to tell people at sale? What about door handles? Lights? Headlight buckets? Carpet??? Or is it because those don’t have a stamp it’s OK? How about enamel Vs laquer? Aftermarket bearings? Reproduction glass w date codes? This IS a sticky subject.

My original point never was that people SHOULD restamp. Or I’d have restamped a block, not rebuilt a nice SR block from Stephens for my car, My point was that guys being honorable and showing an SR block or dropping in an equivalent block but w a differnt stamp ,or differnt VIN , shouldn’t get hammered while guys restanping get top dollar .

There’s a better way .

[turbo69bird]

So my thoughts on this subject may differ from many, there’s likely more than one reason . One is the RAV thing. The part numbers are all over the place , same blocks may have a DS engineering number or a WY block, cast number may be ground off on one and a new number added. Vs one the new number was left but there’s no difference you can find .
The V stuff seems to have no rhyme or reason .

But there’s also another reason .
As stated before
My car was a dealer owned race car. The second day they swapped out the short block . They being, the DEALER. The car was set up a certain way for racing was even ordered special, and the block was also changed out for the as cast 2506. That was balanced and blue printed. Again this was done by the dealer! Through the years I’d talk to someone (not always someone within the collector car hobby ) and. The first thing they’d say “is it numbers matching.” So I’d tell the story and they’d look at me like the car had no value now. And I’d think F off !
That same person would say a royal bobcat was so valuable it had a dealer installed 428 , or a Comanche was a special edition, or a macho, or a ligebfelter, comp TA , or an SLP, or IDOJ , or some giveaway car. BLA blah blah .

I’m thinking yeah my car was altered BY THE DEALER too moron!
It’s very frustrating . Especially since it was still a 2506 block and it was the block in the car most 99.999999 of its life and certainly it’s entire time raced by the dealer and most likely when sold
To the public..

But for some reason , my car isn’t considered numbers matching. But all those cars would be? My car even had a shift light tach added by the dealer for 70 season when they got the RAV engine for the 70 car . Is that considered dealer installed? So forgive me if I dont exactly give a SH@T about the traditional numbers matching born with theories that the rest have grown to cherish so much .
My car was what all those other cars wanted to be when they grew up.
When those cars were bought and the owner went to the speed shop to bolt stuff on they were trying to build (and emulate) my car and all the other race cars dealers had back in the day . Yet someone is put on a pedestal for not using their car? Not enjoying it.
I’d go to a show the way the dealer had the car and I’d get put in modified class but a ralyal bobcat, SLP or a macho isn’t? Like my car was built in some clowns garage .
People can put whatever value on these cars they want, but when I go to a restoration shop and they tell me to restore my car to stock, it’d be worth more , I think are you out of your freaking mind? I’m gonna restore this car to its full on glory to its as raced condition because no one would give a crap about those other cars if it wasn’t for cars like mine kicking azz and taking names at the track and getting in magazines and advertisements . Pick up any magazine of the day when these cars were new and it was all about how they performed at the track . All the articles were testing these cars performance.. now you go to a show and all you find is showroom stock queens there’s ZERO representation of what these cars were at the time . At least the Chevy guys get it and have some yenko cars set up to as raced or day 2.

Now add in that I was told for years stephens never had this or that, like an aluminum block . Even though there was an article written about it in 1972! For years and years people laughed like that wasn’t true factory never made that well now we’ve found about 10 of them . I laugh my azz off every time Someone says that wasn’t done by Pontiac about something . Cause they did all kinds of crazy stuff. Like a RAII block w no casting pad on c118 while others on that day did have a casting pad. Or engineering blocks w dry sump oiling provisions that weren’t SD 455 blocks .

Anyway I’m not a traditionalist anymore and that’s a big part of why .

[PAUL K]

Originally Posted by Alan Reed

Reading this thread, I see it has transitioned from an auction price thread to a re-stamping, re-bodying, re-tagging thread.

Interesting to see the varying and changing ideas and opinions on this subject.

I have been accurately described as a guy with an opinion about most things, and this subject is no exception, but I will not share my opinion here.

But, I do have a question for anyone willing to reply. I am an amateur coin collector and am considering what may described as a coin restoration.

I have this valuable 1913 Buffalo nickel that has had a hard life. It has had extensive use and circulation resulting in significant wear to the front and back of the coin. It is barely recognizable as a 1913 nickel. I suspect if this coin were made from steel, it would have rust, maybe even rust perforation.

Restoring my 1913 nickel is going to be a very big job. I will need to refinish every tiny detail of every shape and surface on both sides. It will take many hours and will be very expensive.

But, none the less it is a valuable coin and worthy of extensive efforts to restore it to it's original splendor. Then I can show it to my coin collecting friends with pride. They might even be complementary of the quality of the restoration. I also could enter my restored nickel in a coin show for others to admire. In the future I may tire of owning this nickel and decide to consign it for sale at a large coin auction venue.

As it happens, I also have a 1914 Buffalo nickel that is in almost perfect uncirculated condition. It's coin features are sharp and fresh and it looks shiny and new. In spite of it's condition, it is not a valuable coin. 1914 nickels are much more common and are easy to find.

Wouldn't it make sense for me to use the 1914 nickel to restore my 1913 nickel? I could very carefully and accurately "re-stamp" that 4 to make it look like a 3. If I do it well enough, even the most experienced coin collectors may not be able to tell the difference. It would even be higher quality because it would have the original coin factory features that would would be impossible to exactly duplicate in a restoration.

If a collector did see that it was a re-stamp, I would explain that the 1914 coin was made in the same factory, on the same equipment, with the same materials, and by the same coin-making people as the 1913 nickel. That original nickel was in bad shape, it would have been much more work to restore it. I could also point out that the original coin features of the 1914 nickel were better than I could have done for the 1913 nickel. Doesn't that make it a "better" nickel? So what is the difference?

And furthermore, that "3" is just a number. I do have title and proof of ownership of the 1913 nickel, so again, what is the difference? Haven't I rewarded the hobby by allowing my fellow collectors to enjoy, discuss, and critique my valuable nickel? And isn't that re-stamped nickel higher quality than the restored original nickel would have been?

So please, share your thoughts and help me decide what to do with my nickels.

Restore, or Re-coin, that is the question.

Hi Alan, being an ex-ammeture coin collector I'd be happy to help you with your nickel. The way I see it is you have a few options:

Totally restore the nickel, which would ruin any of its originality, but if done right it'd bring in the dough at a televised auction.

Leave the nickel "as is" but you'd probably leave money on the table if you decide to sell it down the road. You'd eliminate the big dollar potential buyers, because they'd have no idea how to properly restore the nickel.

You could section the date code off the nickel and carefully install it on the 1914 nickel. That way you could install the 1914 date on the original nickel and not be out five cents.

You could section the date code from your nickel and sell the date code to another collector whom may have a mint condition 1913 nickel that's missing it's date code. You'd also have a known original 1913 nickel (missing it's date code) that could be sold to another collector whom may come across a 1913 dated part of a nickel in Switzerland.

You could carefully graft the 1913 date code onto a more common Jefferson nickel. Sell it at auction and claim "that you were told" this is an all original 1913 Nickel by the previous owner and probably sell it for decent money.

Or you could start a thread on every coin collecting Website and lobby for someone to reproduce the 1913 nickel because there is a need for them.

I hope these options help. I'll give you the same offer as I did with the rare carburetors. For half the going rate of a nice original 1913 nickel I will happily sell you a totally authentic looking converted Jefferson nickel that looks identical to the real deal.

[Formulabruce]

MACN has some day " 2" Pontiacs usually.
Since Covid, the amount that some pay for a "Toy" is much higher now and can be in the 80' s.
The amount of folks that want something " Done" , Right or not, is higher than ever.
Subjectivity will sell at a good price, and there are more buyers than investors.
We are in an era when some investor cars are keeping up with inflation, and others are keeping up with Boomers with their eye on their high school ride.
On the latter, buyers don't care what it was. They care what it is, or appears to be to them. This drives price.
If they buy a built up TA that was a base and it looks the part and has what it should, the insurance CO. Will insure it for what it is, vs what it was. Not talking a #1 car here, but a very nice #3 car.
Why do they do this? Because even a rebuild, tribute, etc costs A LOT to build. Paint alone ( minus body work) can set you back 15k for a quality job.
So if someone likes a car built the way THEY like it, they will pay more.
Put a bolt in ( no mods) 5 speed in a 4 speed #3 all original car and wow, value went up 7k.
Due to costs to build , the line between an invest and a " investment Driver" is now blurred.

[RamAirBirds]

One last point on the "coin" example.
Anybody that has been into the numismatist world would know that it is virtually impossible to fake or even slightly "clean" a coin and not have the experts know. This is why they have extensive grading companies the best being PCS. Several years ago i sent some coins to them to be graded only to find that some of them had been cleaned. Could not even tell with our eyes. They can tell even if a coin has been washed. They know and thus the entire community would know. Any coins of value only have that value if they are "graded" by only a handful of reputable companies. They are then SEALED in a hard plastic case, assigned a number and then recorded in a database for public view. The restoration of coins and cleaning of coins does happen but almost always for a private collector who just wants to have a "better piece" It will never pass muster any further than that.
Now with a Rebody? Much easier to pull off and have nobody know. No grading companies with high powered microscopes involved.
A Block stamping? Easier to identify that as broach marks exist that are pretty hard to replicate (at least in the Pontiac's). Many experts out there study stampings on blocks (Chevrolet World) and few people stamping blocks bother with trying to replicate those. Although we know there are several variations and fonts.
If a car like a TA goes thru an auction and misses basic things like a correct body tag (which can be reproduced legally) than it truly is buyer beware. I bet if one dug deeper into a car like that there would be all sorts of tell tale signs. This is why Mecum creates a hold harmless clause.
Again this post was just to discuss the impossibility of faking or even cleaning a coin without detection. Might as well sand off one of those Buffalos legs.

[Cliff R]

"Maybe someone can explain why an original stamped carburetor or distributor sells for good money but restamps are a dime a dozen?"

Only poorly uneducated buyers are paying the big bucks for "fake" RAIII and RAIV carburetors. I've had scores of them sent here, a few are still out in the shop as the owner went another direction and didn't even pay shipping to have their expensive "restamp" sent back to them.

Also realize that there are a LOT of Service Replacement Ram AIr carbs in circulation, part numbers 7028276, 7029270 and 7040270. They bring good money but far LESS than an original dated unit with the correct Plant Code and Julian Date on it. Although politically correct for a Ram Air car auto or manual that's missing the original this still might take away from the value some, depending on what the new owner is wanting and expecting from the car.

I'd also add here that most of if not all the Ram Air carburetors on Chuck's RAIV cars will be the real deal, because I did them here. Over the course of 20 years or so Chuck hired me to restore Pontiac RAIV carburetors. For most of those years we never discussed who's cars they were for or where they were going to end up, just the engine details so I knew that they werent' headed for some ill-fated build where the owner dished the pistons and put a Comp XE-274 cam in it or some "whiz-bang" fast ramp short seating timing crap to supposedly bring back all the lost power (common practice) instead of the original high compression set-up and real RAIV camshaft.

I actually had no idea that he had a "collection" until a couple of years ago, and sort of put two and two together and figured that the carbs I'd been restoring for him had ended up on some of them.

Chuck NEVER sent a non-Ram Air carb here or asked me to restore a "restamp" or even worse restamp one for him. He knows enough about them to know the real deal from a fake and every single one sent here was for sure the real deal.......FWIW.......

[stevesbirds]

Interesting thread. The parallels with the rigged diamond cartels are something to note. There is no supply problem with diamonds. There is a contrived shortage, and an artificial market. Carbon and extreme pressure aren't exactly rare things on planet earth.

A car with a history in service records, purchased receipts, and PMD record is always going to pull a considerable more IMO. The other big plus is low owner count. Your later cars with a electronic dash can be computer rolled back on the mileage. It isn't so hard to deceive if you intend to.

And the cars with the only original component being the firewall, can be artfully crafted into the donor body, say the Skylark base version if you creating a low numbers 1970 GSX that is in the ultra rare category. You still need a worn down GSX to get to the end result. But who wants to waste $30K on a worn down body when a black plate California donor is waiting for a few thousand dollars.

[scott70]

If the original 455 or muncie in my GTO ever blew up to the point it couldnt be fixed I would never put in a replacement and restamp the VIN #'s on them. Whats the point? Its a lie. If I wanted to find another 70 WA block that would be fine but I would never try to pass it off as the original engine. Same with the muncie. I have an original 7040267 non SR carb on it but if anyone asks I would gladly tell them its not the original to the car.

[PAUL K]

Originally Posted by Cliff R

"Maybe someone can explain why an original stamped carburetor or distributor sells for good money but restamps are a dime a dozen?"

Only poorly uneducated buyers are paying the big bucks for "fake" RAIII and RAIV carburetors. I've had scores of them sent here, a few are still out in the shop as the owner went another direction and didn't even pay shipping to have their expensive "restamp" sent back to them.

Also realize that there are a LOT of Service Replacement Ram AIr carbs in circulation, part numbers 7028276, 7029270 and 7040270. They bring good money but far LESS than an original dated unit with the correct Plant Code and Julian Date on it. Although politically correct for a Ram Air car auto or manual that's missing the original this still might take away from the value some, depending on what the new owner is wanting and expecting from the car.

I'd also add here that most of if not all the Ram Air carburetors on Chuck's RAIV cars will be the real deal, because I did them here. Over the course of 20 years or so Chuck hired me to restore Pontiac RAIV carburetors. For most of those years we never discussed who's cars they were for or where they were going to end up, just the engine details so I knew that they werent' headed for some ill-fated build where the owner dished the pistons and put a Comp XE-274 cam in it or some "whiz-bang" fast ramp short seating timing crap to supposedly bring back all the lost power (common practice) instead of the original high compression set-up and real RAIV camshaft.

I actually had no idea that he had a "collection" until a couple of years ago, and sort of put two and two together and figured that the carbs I'd been restoring for him had ended up on some of them.

Chuck NEVER sent a non-Ram Air carb here or asked me to restore a "restamp" or even worse restamp one for him. He knows enough about them to know the real deal from a fake and every single one sent here was for sure the real deal.......FWIW.......

Good info Cliff. My point isn't questioning the authenticity of Chucks carburetors. I'm trying to figure out if it's not an issue to restamp a block, why would re-stamped carburetors sell for less money than an original? Also where does the restamping stop? Vin, firewall, frame etc..... A properly calibrated re-stamped carburetor would perform better than an original factory calibrated carburetor... So wouldn't that be a better choice for say a million dollar Chevelle that has a re-stamped original looking engine block.