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Old 05-25-2023, 06:16 PM
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Default Broken Dipstick Tube

I had my car in for some exhaust work this week, having new headers installed and tailpipes extended. During the installation process, the dipstick tube was broken where it enters the block.

Has anyone run into this with the engine in the car? The dipstick was attempted to be repaired and re-installed but immediately was crunched on the crankshaft on an attempted startup. They are having trouble extricating the lower tube from the block at this point.

I did not build this engine as it was in the car when I purchased it. As a result I have no idea if it retains a windage tray or not. Considering that the lower tube was initially taken out of the block, I'm thinking it likely does have the tray installed.

Next steps are to get a bore scope in the pan to verify if there's a windage tray and if the engine has 2 or 4 bolt mains on it.

Has anybody dealt with this before? Is this a pull the pan and thus an engine out operation at this point, or can a dipstick tube be installed with the engine in the car?

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Old 05-25-2023, 06:27 PM
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Pan has to come off to press new dipstick tube in block from under pan to outside.
Then install lower tube from there to windage tray or the lower tube with strap to main cap.

Never tried to do this with engine in car.

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Old 05-25-2023, 06:48 PM
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Engine’s coming out, pan’s coming off and maybe the center main so you have room to install the new block dipstick tube from the inside, can’t be done any other way.

Even if you did attempt this repair with the engine in the car you’ll wish you hadn’t after you get halfway through it.

The lower dipstick tube will either be retained by the windage tray or if no tray it has an integral bracket that bolts to the center main cap. Both types slip inside the block dipstick tube to retain the upper end of the tube.

Your exhaust shop screwed the pooch on this job. Header installation on a Pontiac means bending the tube outward a little while lifting the header flange up over the top of the tube, dipstick removed of course. It ain’t that hard but if you’re not paying attention……

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Old 05-25-2023, 07:10 PM
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Yup like B man posted, the motors coming out to get things right .
If you want to try and find a bright side to this mess its that since that lower tube that was shot enough to bust and not just bend it likely would have failed on you at some point and got you stuck somewhere and maybe even could have caused the loss of enough oil to kill the motor.

Since you did not build the motor it will be a great time to also take a peak at some of the bearings , check if the pump pickup tube is still in solid and positioned right and if it has a windage tray look it over for cracks.

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Old 05-25-2023, 07:35 PM
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Like others have said, both the upper and lower dipstick tubes install from inside the block.

I broke the tube off on my FE Ford back when I was a kid. The FE dipsitick tube was easy to access as it was right up front on the driver's side. I shoved an appropriately size rubber vacuum line cap into the hole, drilled the old tube out down to the plug, screwed a corkscrew into the plug and pulled it (and the shavings) out. I cut off the factory dipstick tube to the required length, applied red loctite to the end and drove it in the hole.

I don't know if you can pull this off with headers using a long drill bit but the cost of a long bit beats the alternative.

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Old 05-25-2023, 08:49 PM
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Yeah kind of a bummer here. Too bad too because the exhaust work came out great.

I don’t really have the space or the equipment to pull the engine myself, so I’m not sure what will happen with this. Any shop worth while around here to do an r&r is months out.

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Old 05-25-2023, 09:58 PM
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I cut the flange on my Hooker headers rather than deal with moving the dipstick tube around. Easier header install anyway.
Heck, my Mad Dogs do not have any long flange. All individual.

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Old 05-25-2023, 11:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Dragncar View Post
I cut the flange on my Hooker headers rather than deal with moving the dipstick tube around. Easier header install anyway.
Heck, my Mad Dogs do not have any long flange. All individual.
This is exactly what caused the problem. I don't know if the tube was already failing or not, but trying to bend it around the flange, instead of putting it through the block and flange is what ultimately snapped it.

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Old 05-26-2023, 05:43 AM
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I would say that the shop who did the Exh work should find you a general repair shop that can pull the motor and do the repair pronto

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Old 05-26-2023, 09:26 AM
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I would personally try to take control of the situation yourself, not depend on the shop that ruined your dipstick tube to now "make it right". IMO, that's a recipe for disaster and your car being off the road for month's and losing an entire fun season. If this was my car and I could not fix it myself, this is what I would do. Get it home and change the oil putting the exact amount of oil in it it needs. Use the dipstick to gauge somehow where the oil level shows on the stick with the tube broken or missing or even in place and resting on the broken piece. You just need some consistent way to gauge your oil. Once that's accomplished, mark the stick, then remove. Come up with a plug for the dipstick hole. A rubber plug, plastic plug, something just to plug the hole that can be removed.

Enjoy your car for the summer and check the oil when necessary with the marked dipstick. During the summer, talk to people who can recommend a competent, older car shop that can quickly and reliably, fix it properly at the end of the driving season.

Just last month I fixed a guys 66 GTO that went into a shop for a rear main seal.
They thought they could do it in the car, got it half way done, all screwed up and it sat almost a year. He had it towed to my shop in pieces and I put it back together in 4 days. Don't let some shop control YOUR hobby. Don't let a dipstick tube ruin your summer. Although that is a bitch of a repair. Wish you well.

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Old 05-26-2023, 09:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mgarblik View Post
I would personally try to take control of the situation yourself, not depend on the shop that ruined your dipstick tube to now "make it right". IMO, that's a recipe for disaster and your car being off the road for month's and losing an entire fun season. If this was my car and I could not fix it myself, this is what I would do. Get it home and change the oil putting the exact amount of oil in it it needs. Use the dipstick to gauge somehow where the oil level shows on the stick with the tube broken or missing or even in place and resting on the broken piece. You just need some consistent way to gauge your oil. Once that's accomplished, mark the stick, then remove. Come up with a plug for the dipstick hole. A rubber plug, plastic plug, something just to plug the hole that can be removed.

Enjoy your car for the summer and check the oil when necessary with the marked dipstick. During the summer, talk to people who can recommend a competent, older car shop that can quickly and reliably, fix it properly at the end of the driving season.

Just last month I fixed a guys 66 GTO that went into a shop for a rear main seal.
They thought they could do it in the car, got it half way done, all screwed up and it sat almost a year. He had it towed to my shop in pieces and I put it back together in 4 days. Don't let some shop control YOUR hobby. Don't let a dipstick tube ruin your summer. Although that is a bitch of a repair. Wish you well.
This is my plan. I've been wanting to get a proper oil pan on this car so I can take it to auto-x as well. The engine doesn't consume oil, but due to it's age does leak a small amount.

I'll drive it for the summer and pull the engine towards the end of the season. I may have the whole engine freshened at that time.

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Old 05-26-2023, 05:23 PM
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Here’s one way to get use of your car for this season that will cost less then 100 bucks in parts and take two hours maybe.

Get a 1/8” pipe tap.
A 1/8” pipe plug.
Teflon tape.
A gallon can of mineral sprits
A spray can of brake clean
5 qts of the oil that you run.
A magnetic drain plug.

First drain out your oil and screw in the new drain plug.
The busted off tube very close to the block is .390” ID.
This is already a perfect size to tap for 1/8” pipe.

Run the tap in, but not all the way, just enough so the pipe plug will thread in half way.

There’s no room to use a tap handle so a small adjustable wrench will have to do.

Spray around inside the tube with the brake clean and then with a small funnel pour thru a good 2 qts of the sprite.
Drain all that out and you should have then removed all the metal from the taping process, but to be sure pour thru the last 2 qts and drain out again and wipe off the magnet drain plug.

Rap one layer of the Teflon tape on the plug the right way , screw it in snug and then add your new oil.

Do not use compressed air to blow out the tube into the crankcase after tapping or you will have metal everywhere and not be able to get it out without yanking the motor out.

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Old 05-27-2023, 09:31 PM
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If you had broken the dipstick tube off the shop owner's car, do you think he would just let you off and say "stuff happens, I get it."

I get that you feel badly for the shop and their "bad luck", but why should you have to pay? If in the inspection and trial fit of the headers they determined the dipstick tube interfered and they went forward with the install, they thought they could remedy. Obviously, their methods (bending it without heating it) proved unsatisfactory.

I'd get an estimate to replace the upper tube and suggest they split the cost with you.

I had a local shop replace my rear main bearing deal I asked what the probability was it would leak worse than the current one and I'd have wasted my money. The shop responded "It won't leak". It leaked like a sieve and I had no qualms making the shop do it over though I sweetenedn the deal by having them paint the engine and engine compartment.

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Old 05-27-2023, 09:40 PM
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At the very least that exhaust shop should eat the labor they charged you.

They could have easily called you to ask if they could cut the header flange to eliminate the interference between the flange and the dipstick tube. Or just use extra care like you’d normally expect from an experienced exhaust shop, that wasn’t their first rodeo.

If they enlisted a rookie to do the installation then perhaps that was a bad gamble on their part, no matter what they should fix the issue they caused and don’t back down.

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Old 05-28-2023, 10:50 AM
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They aren’t charging me for the labor involved in fixing the dipstick tube issue. I have not yet discussed anything else. They machined a plug for the block and used the right stuff to seal it which has been curing over the weekend. I’ll pick the car up Tuesday and I’ll work with them on labor charges.

I have an engine hoist at my disposal but will need to get a rotating stand. It’ll be tight but I think I can get the engine out in my garage. That will at least save me some labor elsewhere.

Any recommendation on stands?

I always said if the engine had to come out, I’d put a proper rotating assembly in it. I guess that is happening over the winter.

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Last edited by JLMounce; 05-28-2023 at 10:58 AM.
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Old 05-30-2023, 03:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JLMounce View Post
...The dipstick was attempted to be repaired and re-installed but immediately was crunched on the crankshaft on an attempted startup. They are having trouble extricating the lower tube from the block at this point...
May I ask what is going to happen to the lower dipstick tube that has been mangled? Let's not forget the windage tray that the tube passes through. If the lower tube was mauled, the windage tray had to have been mauled also.

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Old 05-30-2023, 03:33 AM
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The pan has to come off.

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Old 05-30-2023, 10:03 AM
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May I ask what is going to happen to the lower dipstick tube that has been mangled? Let's not forget the windage tray that the tube passes through. If the lower tube was mauled, the windage tray had to have been mauled also.
The shop put a bore scope up into the pan. There's no windage tray on the engine, so we are good there. They've turned the engine over by hand and nothing is hitting anything. They've plugged it and they will be checking for leaks this morning.

If there's not leaks and no anomalous sounds I'll go pick the car up and enjoy it for the summer before pulling the engine out.

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