[ramair2]

Ok, I've seen original paint 1969 RA IV Firebirds and they do NOT have the standard 400 hood emblem. Instead they have (color coded) RA IV decals. I'm convinced this is how they left the factory and IMO it looks awesome.

Now for the headscratcher. Why would the 1969 TA (in either RA III or RA IV form) NOT come with RA III or RA IV hood decals? 69 TA production occured AFTER early RA IV Firebirds were built so to me it makes no sense. As we all know the 69 TA's were the Firebird equivalent of the boisterous and in your face Judge. To highlight this parallel I believe the PMD press release for the 69 Judge also had a 69 TA on hand at the same event. And as we also all know, every single 69 Judge built had either RA III or IV screaming out on its hood.

With this emphasis on image, badging, spoilers, special paint schemes etc, for 1969 why in heaven's name did PMD NOT include RA III (or IV) hood decals on the TA?? Certainly not 'to be stealth'. Not on THAT car! A 68 1/2 RA II Bird trying to be stealth? Sure, no problem. A 'stealth' 69 TA? Now thats pretty funny... ;-)

What do you guys think about this? Also, was there *any* chance some of the late 69 TAs DID get hood decals ?

PS I know the pre-production promo 69 TA had red RA IV hood decals but it also had blue on the spoiler, the bird emblem on the fender and a different steering wheel, (and whiteline tires?) if memory serves me. However, all of these items (please correct me if I am wrong) never made it to production for one reason or another. One final point...The fact that the hood decals were on the promo TA car proves the fact that PMD was thinking about doing this. I cant imagine what made them decide to NOT put them on production 69 TAs...Very odd indeed...

[rdl]

If we're playing the speculation game, then I suppose one theory might be a styling decision. For the same reason that that stripe was removed from the top of the rear spoiler, Pontiac designers may have decided the "Ram Air" decals detracted from the clean lines of the hood and crowded the hood stripes. It made the car no less audacious but may have appeared "cleaner." The reverse can be said of the Judge package where the "Ram Air" decals are found without a hood striping feature.

[ramair2]

Thats not a bad theory. Personally though, I have seen 69 TAs with the decals and in my opinion I think the TA looks better with decals. What do you think?

BTW your theory also helps give a possible explanation as to why (non-striped) '69 RA IV Firebirds received the hood decal treatment...

[Chiefpontiac]

T/A's should have decals. The '69 Firebird assembly manual has decal placement instructions for Ram Air 400 cars and for Trans Am's.

[ramair2]

I've seen 5 or 6 original paint '69 TAs (two of which were pristine, lo-mile, original owner cars) and none of them had hood decals...

[Tellyshavilli]

The 69 Ta did not get hood decals. Put them on if you like (red) but they did not come that way . Red ,white and blue will always look great.

[ramair2]

Hey Telly,

Whats your take on why PMD didn't put them on production cars? I agree, I think they look great and really fit the 'image' of the '69 TA nicely.

[BLKBRD]

I've never quite understood why they were left off of the '70 T/A's as well. That big shaker just cries out for something. Fortunately, they finally got it right in '71. IMHO, only a total loser would put them on a car that didn't have them from the factory!

[ramair2]

"Only a total loser..." BLKBRD u kill me....forever the comedian :-)

[BLKBRD]

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

I personally think that the RA IV decals look great at the forward edge of the T/A hood, but I'd only do it with blue decals. If they don't make them in blue, it would be easy enough to have them made up by a graphics house. Have several sets made up and pull them off for magazine spreads and judged events, then throw them back on afterwards. You could also have a megnetic set made up, but they certainly wouldn't look as good as the thinner decals.

Another theory:
Maybe Pontiac put the Ram Air decals on the GTO's and Firebirds to differentiate those that actually had ram air. Remember, a GTO or Firebird could be had with or without Ram Air, but the T/A only came one way... with Ram Air. The only acception to this theory is with the RA III Firebirds, which didn't come with Ram Air decals (to the best of my knowledge), but then again, the ram air engine in these cars was identified as a HO, whereas it was identified as a RA in the GTO (again to the best of my knowledge).

[BLKBRD]

Another Theory Part II:

The only engines available for the T/A were 400 C.I. engines. By all rights, a car named "Trans Am" should have had a 305 C.I. (or less) engine available from the factory. Both Ford and Chevy did. Everyone knew that the Ram Air engines were 400 C.I. engines. Could it be that Pontiac did not want to advertise ON THE CAR that it contained an engine that essentially made it anything but a Trans Am car?

[R 70 Judge]

None of the TA's I've seen came with them. I asked the same question to a few "in the know" people a few years ago. They agreed with Telly, they didn't come with them from the factory.

It's kind of like people adding Ram Air IV stickers to the back of GTO's. It's not correct, but it looks cool!

[69 T/A]

Being a purist I wouldn't put one on mine but I can understand why folks would do it. Then again, the butchery I've seen some real GT-40's go though, nice original cars modified to go vintage racing, have to shake my head at that.

[Cammer-6]

I wouldnt know a real ford from a fake one.
Whos looking anyway.

[BLKBRD]

Another Theory Part III:

All of the '69 T/A's were actually developed at Groom Lake (Area 51). They were created from the technology that was obtained from the Roswell crash back in 1947. The government had intended to put "Warp Drive" decals on them, but when they couldn't figure out how to make the warp drive system work, they passed on the decals. The eight "documented" factory convertables are all worthless forgeries. Any grade school kid knows that you can't perform interstellar travel in a soft-top vehicle.

P.S. Any individual who has the misfortune of owning one of the eight soft-top forgeries may contact me via a personal e-mail at any time. I feel your pain and will be more than happy to eleviate you of that pain.

[69 T/A]

Cammer-6, obviously you've had no cockpit time or been versed on the engineering that went into the car. Might wanna do a a bit of research into it.
As much as I love my Pontiacs, never owned a Ford IN my life, I'd love to own any one of the originals. Trust me, you ever get the chance to drive one, you'll be hooked, line and sinker.

[tom s]

can anyone come up with a reason the factory assm. manual show where the Ram Air IV decals goes on the hood?Tom

[Tellyshavilli]

Originally Posted by ramair2

Hey Telly,

Whats your take on why PMD didn't put them on production cars? I agree, I think they look great and really fit the 'image' of the '69 TA nicely.

I really don't know but I do enjoy reading everybody elses guesses.I still would like to find out if one of the gold interior car exists or the RAIV car with power windows is still around.

[einstein]

Originally Posted by tom s

can anyone come up with a reason the factory assm. manual show where the Ram Air IV decals goes on the hood?Tom

The Assembly manual page is dated February, and note that the stripes are incorrect from what really happened.

I would suppose that page was revised, but until somebody comes up with real proof of this with a later edition, we'll never know.

[einstein]

Originally Posted by ramair2

As we all know the 69 TA's were the Firebird equivalent of the boisterous and in your face Judge.

Not sure I would agree with this. I think it was more just coincidental timing.

I don't know the history of the Judge like I know the TA, especially who in Pontiac was doing the development work. I think Herb Adams and his group had a far different vision for the TA than whoever handled the Judge. I recall some mention in Mike Lamm's book about some very simple striping Adams and the "ad hoc committee" had done, and somebody protested and came up with the blue stripe idea.

I remember the Judge was supposed to be a cheap competitor to the Road Runner, and they were ging for "in your face" a la the "Laugh In" routine with Sammy Davis Jr. It's proably quite likely that the two cars got some overlap well into their respective prorams, but I just don't see them as being brothers from birth.