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  #101  
Old 02-25-2023, 11:22 AM
SD455DJ SD455DJ is offline
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Originally Posted by Verdoro 68 View Post
The silkscreen ink arrived this afternoon. The fine 305 screen and silkscreen ink appears to be the magic combo. I missed a few letters on this pass though. I'll let this dry and see how it holds up.

The screens are very reusable and it's pretty easy to wipe off and start over if you aren't happy. My air cleaner has been screened about 30 times now LOL.

I have to say that this is a great thread! I don't know anything about 3D printing, but my hat is off to you and simply awed at what you are making. Here is the original print on my air cleaner and it is slightly fuzzy from the factory. So, they certainly don't need to be crisp edges everywhere to look correct.

Great work!

Dennis
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  #102  
Old 02-25-2023, 11:40 AM
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1971 455 HO owners (A & F Bodies) all lament the crummy emmisions/tune-up label (sticker) that are wrong from all suppliers. I don't know if there is any copyright infringement to print a few copies, but it sure would be great to have a more accurate choice. The only things that are correct on the repro are the size and colors...lol. Notice that the repop even omits the Pontiac crest above 'Pontiac Motor Divisions' in the top left margine too.

Dennis
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  #103  
Old 02-25-2023, 11:59 AM
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Thanks for learning and sharing your solution for printing white on a curved surface. I shared some ideas and transfer materials I was messing with for guage graphics in prior threads. The taped-on screen method looks great! I was intrigued by transfer methods to make the screen stencils. The pre-sensitized screens are clearly a good option. Nice work!!

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  #104  
Old 02-25-2023, 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted by dataway View Post
Sweet! Very nice.

I bet a bit of clear coat over that and it would last a long time.

Now I'm wanting to screen print things all over the place
After drying overnight, the silkscreen paint seems very durable. I picked at it with my fingernail and it's on there good! You could clear over it, but it may not need it.

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Originally Posted by SD455DJ View Post
Here is the original print on my air cleaner and it is slightly fuzzy from the factory. So, they certainly don't need to be crisp edges everywhere to look correct.

Great work!

Dennis
I can make that one. Do you have dimensions for it? The screens I've been experimenting with were eyeballed and a smidge bigger (1-3/16 x 4-1/8) than the reproduction stickers (1-1/8 x 3-5/8. I want to be sure I'm doing these as correctly as I can. I'm also going to pull another screen today with a few mixes of fonts because I think what I have is too bold.

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Originally Posted by SD455DJ View Post
1971 455 HO owners (A & F Bodies) all lament the crummy emmisions/tune-up label (sticker) that are wrong from all suppliers. I don't know if there is any copyright infringement to print a few copies, but it sure would be great to have a more accurate choice. The only things that are correct on the repro are the size and colors...lol. Notice that the repop even omits the Pontiac crest above 'Pontiac Motor Divisions' in the top left margine too.

Dennis
I saw your old thread on this as I was looking for emissions decals and pulled the images from it. I can make a small batch of these too.

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Originally Posted by Shiny View Post
Thanks for learning and sharing your solution for printing white on a curved surface. I shared some ideas and transfer materials I was messing with for guage graphics in prior threads. The taped-on screen method looks great! I was intrigued by transfer methods to make the screen stencils. The pre-sensitized screens are clearly a good option. Nice work!!
I suspect this is how gauges were done too. I'm not sure exactly what you mean by pre-sensitized screens, but the ready made screens with pre-applied emulsion aren't fine enough for screening on metal and you'll get poor results. Most stuff out there is geared towards t-shirts which can take a coarser thread screen because it soaks in the ink. It's not difficult to stretch and treat a screen, just time consuming. So far, it takes me about a day to make a screen with in between drying time included. I've learned there is also some technique to coating a screen with just the right amount of emulsion.

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  #105  
Old 02-25-2023, 02:51 PM
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riginally Posted by SD455DJ View Post
1971 455 HO owners (A & F Bodies) all lament the crummy emmisions/tune-up label (sticker) that are wrong from all suppliers. I don't know if there is any copyright infringement to print a few copies, but it sure would be great to have a more accurate choice. The only things that are correct on the repro are the size and colors...lol. Notice that the repop even omits the Pontiac crest above 'Pontiac Motor Divisions' in the top left margine too.

Dennis
I saw your old thread on this as I was looking for emissions decals and pulled the images from it. I can make a small batch of these too.

Ken, That would be awesome! I need 8 for sure, but let me know how many is too much and what I owe you, or anything else you need from me.

Thanks much! Dennis

  #106  
Old 02-25-2023, 02:58 PM
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Ken, I don't need the air cleaner silk screen. I was just using it to show the imperfections of an original print. Thanks for offering though!

Have you made any emissions labels for 1969 350 HO's? I need one of those too. Thanks!

Dennis

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  #107  
Old 02-25-2023, 03:01 PM
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Ken, I don't need the air cleaner silk screen. I was just using it to show the imperfections of an original print. Thanks for offering though!

Have you made any emissions labels for 1969 350 HO's? I need one of those too. Thanks!

Dennis
I have not been able to find any original '69 emissions label to reference. If you've got one, please send it my way.

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  #108  
Old 02-25-2023, 03:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Verdoro 68 View Post
I have not been able to find any original '69 emissions label to reference. If you've got one, please send it my way.
Ken, Will do! I hope I find an accurate one.

Dennis

  #109  
Old 02-25-2023, 04:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Verdoro 68 View Post
...I suspect this is how gauges were done too. I'm not sure exactly what you mean by pre-sensitized screens, but the ready made screens with pre-applied emulsion aren't fine enough for screening on metal and you'll get poor results. Most stuff out there is geared towards t-shirts which can take a coarser thread screen because it soaks in the ink. It's not difficult to stretch and treat a screen, just time consuming. So far, it takes me about a day to make a screen with in between drying time included. I've learned there is also some technique to coating a screen with just the right amount of emulsion.
Thanks!

By pre-sensitized I meant light-sensitive. Basically, you buy a screen that is pre-coated with a photosensitive emulsion, correct? This vs coating the screen itself, then "sensitizing" to activate the photo-chemistry.

And I can appreciate the effect of mesh size. Some of my wonder years were spent in a lab making prototype microelectronics. We screen-printed "hybrid" circuits so I've got some of that in my two remaining youthful memory cells. We also did a lot with liquid and dry-film resists. It was interesting, just like what you are sharing!

Here's the last time I thought about the gauge graphics. I have a dash tach I may play with if I run out of elder interests... your success might motivate me!

Link to Thread

Mike

  #110  
Old 02-26-2023, 01:47 AM
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Thanks!

By pre-sensitized I meant light-sensitive. Basically, you buy a screen that is pre-coated with a photosensitive emulsion, correct? This vs coating the screen itself, then "sensitizing" to activate the photo-chemistry.

And I can appreciate the effect of mesh size. Some of my wonder years were spent in a lab making prototype microelectronics. We screen-printed "hybrid" circuits so I've got some of that in my two remaining youthful memory cells. We also did a lot with liquid and dry-film resists. It was interesting, just like what you are sharing!
Ah, yeah - we're talking about the same thing. I tried a few pre-coated screens but the mesh wasn't right. It's more labor intensive, but so far coating my own screens seems to work best. My entire experience with silkscreening was a few week in Industrial Arts class in High School.

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Originally Posted by Shiny View Post
Here's the last time I thought about the gauge graphics. I have a dash tach I may play with if I run out of elder interests... your success might motivate me!

Link to Thread

Mike
Yeah - gauges are an interesting one! I was looking into dry transfers as a solution for these too. Expensive!

Speaking of, I put in for an order of waterslides for '67 and '68 coolant decals, '68 standard and Ram Air emissions, and '64-'65 fan guard decals. At this rate, I should probably invest in my own ALPS printer.

I put together a sample panel to try out a few different font assemblies and finalize sizing. #1 is what I put on my air cleaner in my test the other day, but the fonts looked a little too bold.

After some closer inspection of pics of originals, I think #4 and #5 are the most accurate but would love to hear from folks. I did this in one pull across the screen, but I'm finding the fine mesh is pretty forgiving and I could have done a couple passes to thicken up the print, especially if you want to replicate the sloppiness of the factory application.









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  #111  
Old 02-26-2023, 01:51 AM
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More detail pics. The lighter weight fonts (#3 below) tended to wash out a bit more than I expected. A good example of what looks good on the computer screen doesn't always translate to ink.

BTW, this was a 22 gauge metal panel I applied a quick coat of Eastwood underhood black to so the flecks you're seeing is dust in the black coat, not white from the screening process. On the pic of the PR, I missed drawing the line all the way under the Heavy Duty title. Oops. Already fixed it.





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  #112  
Old 02-26-2023, 10:21 AM
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Ken, the only '69 350 4-bbl emissions decals I could find were repops from Jim Osborn and OPG. I'm not sure they are correct, but attached them anyway. I'll keep looking for an original one for the meantime. Thanks for all your hard work in creating these for the hobby!

Dennis
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  #113  
Old 02-26-2023, 11:28 AM
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Ken, you are gaining some serious skill and experience.

The accuracy of your design work is amazing to me, considering you are working with "digital" fonts and not images. Just matching the fonts is a non-trivial task and is the first thing that jumps out in many "commercial" repros.

As to the print quality, yours is awesome. My 40-yrs-ago experience was with automated printers that maintained a "snap-off" (gap) between the screen and the substrate, had controlled squeegee pressure, and controlled sweep rates.

For manual "contact" printing, I'm honestly surprised you can do as well as you are. You must be getting a good feel for the "liftoff".

Adjusting the artwork to match the process is non-trivial. Again, you are becoming quite an accomplished process developer!

Most importantly, hope you are having as much fun as it appears.

Mike

  #114  
Old 02-26-2023, 12:28 PM
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Mike, it sounds like you have more experience at this than I do! I actually experimented with a snap off setup, but it’s really tricky on the rounded air cleaner housing.

One thing I have going for me is I have been around art and design my entire life. I went to school during the transition to digital, and career has been all digital, but I did learn the manual way of doing things.. The things I get paid to do live in pixels and typically have a shelf life of months, so it’s nice to work on something tactile.

I spent the most time matching the fonts, kerning, leading and line spacing on all of these labels so far. You’d be surprised how many variants of the same font there are - not just in weight, but the hinting and such of characters between font foundaries. All bolds and demis are not the same!

These labels were all drawn up and hand set back in the day. I think a lot about the person who had to assemble these labels and the amount of effort it took for such a seemingly small thing. In a way, I want to pay homage to the unsung designer. Like everything in a resto, it’s a fun challenge to accurately replicate something that likely didn’t get a lot of attention back then.

I appreciate the support and interest, and yes, this has been a lot of fun to reverse engineer!

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  #115  
Old 02-26-2023, 01:15 PM
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Oh, heck no! I just have enough dinosaur experience to appreciate the effort and skill you are applying.

  #116  
Old 02-26-2023, 06:49 PM
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I'm thinking an e-commerce site needs to be in the works.

I have no idea if the economics work out for you.

Personally I have no problem paying a good buck for the right stuff.

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  #117  
Old 02-26-2023, 10:12 PM
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I have some ideas on that. But first, I may do a small "friends and family" beta test before I go selling kits. I'm doing a little more homework to ensure the screens I'm making are good quality. They seem to be working just fine, but the emulsion coating looks little homely. If I do puts something out there, I want to be sure it's proper.

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  #118  
Old 02-27-2023, 01:00 AM
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Another test with the final art for the PP label. I like the letter spacing on this one - it looks factory. I have to take care when I rinse the screens to get all the emulsion out of the small letters and have been using a soft car detailing brush.

Unfortunately it removes some of the cured emulsion too. You can see how blotchy the screen is. I think it's just more practice making the screens. All that said, it doesn't seem to be impacting the output.

I really globbed the ink on and rubbed it in this time to see what would happen. It gave me a little of the factory smudge. I keep reminding myself that the factory wasn't after perfection and they just slapped these things on.

Overall, I'm pleased with how user friendly this setup is. If you aren't happy with the application, the ink is water soluble when wet so just wipe it down and rinse the screen off and do it again.









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  #119  
Old 02-27-2023, 02:24 AM
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I love it ... one of the problems with so many restoration these days is the over restoration. Very few things from the factory were perfect, many were a long way from perfect. In the highest levels of auto restoration they even strive to match the factory imperfections.

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Old 02-27-2023, 02:41 PM
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Saw this when I was out over the weekend. The thread comes full circle.

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