[chief455]

Originally Posted by andrewb70

Anyone care to guess what the car weighed?

3870
54% front
46% rear

[andrewb70]

Originally Posted by chief455

3870
54% front
46% rear

With me in it, no hood, no passenger seat, 1/3 tank of gas, it was 3828.

3823
minus 275 for my fat ass
add 50 for hood
add 25 for seat

3623

So it looks like the car lost a little under 300 pounds from the swap. Not bad. It will be really interesting to get the corner scale data.

Andrew

[mzbk2l]

Originally Posted by andrewb70

Today I got the exhaust buttoned up. A new Dr.Gas x-pipe was installed and connected the headers to the mufflers. The car is very quiet. Almost too quiet. I has a nice deep tone. It is a hair louder than a new ZO6 Corvette. I got the wideband hooked up as well and as suspected the car was a little rich. Once I drove it a little the ECU started trimming the A/F ratio and now it is very close. I may not have to get it tuned at all. We'll see how the WOT A/F ratio is on the dyno.

Sounds good! What's next?

[andrewb70]

Originally Posted by mzbk2l

Sounds good! What's next?

Right now I am waiting for a replacement alternator. I got a rebuilt unit from Advanced Auto, online, and it went bad after one day of driving. That's what I get for not spending the extra money for a new one. The replacement will be here next Wednesday.

In the meantime I am going to mess around with the front coilovers and see if I can bring the nose down. I am also going to look into why my front shocks are leaking. They may have to be sent in for a rebuild. Hopefully by the end of next week I will be able to take my "malibu" (Oh the wit on goquick) to the chassis dyno.

Andrew

[Z Code 400]

Very nice work, Andrew....Impressive.

I really like the way you work things out and improve upon the original design. The lighter, more efficient engine is a smart move, regardless of the brand name.

If I had the means and time, I would put a carbureted LT5 in my Firebird and retain the functional ram air hood/system...Robert

[andrewb70]

Originally Posted by Z Code 400

Very nice work, Andrew....Impressive.

I really like the way you work things out and improve upon the original design. The lighter, more efficient engine is a smart move, regardless of the brand name.

If I had the means and time, I would put a carbureted LT5 in my Firebird and retain the functional ram air hood/system...Robert

Thanks again for the kind words Robert.

This morning I took the GMAT test and my brain was sizzled.

I got a replacement alternator in the mail today. I have to admit that the partsamerica.com exchange system works quickly and effortlessly. I just hope this alternator will last more than a few days. After installing it I drove around town and put about 50 miles on the car. The alternator seems fine and the car runs strong. I got on it a few times and it certainly feels as strong as the big block did, although the lack of torque is noticeable in second gear. I used to be able to break the tires loose from a roll in second. No more. That's not surprising and I am sure that the drag strip times will not be disappointing. This engine pulls like a freight train above 3000 RPM.

I also noticed that it is running fairly rich at WOT. My wideband was showing a steady 11.9:1. That is not surprising since I am using the LS7 tune up. Once the engine is broken in some more I will take it to my local tuner and tweak a little bit. There is no black smoke and no drivability issues at all. I should pull a plug.

On the highway there is still a little vibration above 80MPH. Before doing anything drastic I am going to double check the wheels and tires as well as the driveshaft. Since the car sat for a while it is entirely possible that the tires have developed some flat spots and that will certainly be felt at high speed.

Andrew

[Z Code 400]

Andrew,

One of my friend's has a running engine, just like yours. It is a cast-iron block with aluminum heads and it came out of a truck, but I don't know what the displacement is. He told me it was replaced because of lifter noise. I might take it home and tear it down just to see what it looks like inside...Robert

[Z Code 400]

I remember that engine having two knock sensors in the aluminum valley pan, so it is a bit different from yours....Not sure what difference that makes.

I'm impressed with your project and the engine/gearbox is an intriguing combination...nice mixing of the old and new.

I have a few questions...Did you have to relocate your steering shaft for the new engine??? Did the headers fit without modification??? This has got me thinking.

I have seen carbureted/distributed LS here locally. Ideally, I would like to use a carb or a TBI setup and retain the functional ram air and conventional air cleaner, yet use the distributorless ignition system and knock sensors from the original engine management system.

I like the weight reduction possible with the newer engine….and its super-cool looking too…Robert

[andrewb70]

Robert,

The truck engines with the iron blocks came in 4.8L, 5.3L, or 6.0L displacement. The displacement is cast into the rear of the block, although some 4.8L engines were labeled 5.3L. The 5.3L and the 4.8L engines shared the same block but the 4.8L had a shorter stroke. I have an new MSD 6010 box that will allow you to run a carb and keep the electronic ignition. Send me a PM if you are interested in it.

Tonight I went to Beech Bend for their Saturday night test and tune. With the hood back on, passenger seat installed, half tank of gas, race weight was 3941 with me in it. I was running the same Nitto 555s that were installed back in 2002. Needless to say, they are a little hard. The temperature was about 85 degrees and very humid. After a few crusty passes, I managed to click off my best pass for the night.

60' 2.1
12.78 @ 111 MPH


I am pretty happy.

Andrew

[David Holmberg]

Very nice Andrew. For a road car with hard tires that was really moving.

[Z Code 400]

Thanks, Andrew.....

I would still have a lot of logistics to work out if I was to do that swap. My buddy will donate the engine to me if I want it. We trade all the time, so getting the motor would be no big deal. I would have to work out clutch linkage, gearbox, headers, steering shaft, etc., and I wouldn't be in a big hurry to do the swap.

I also saw an article where some guy was drilling the crank with a hand drill to use a distributor. That really looked like a poor idea to me. Keeping the DIS and Coil on Plug setup would be much better, IMHO.

I am giving the idea some thought, but I am not 100% sold on doing the swap just yet. I would have a bunch of things to sort out on paper before I commit to it, but your installation and light weight approach appeals to me. I would love to take some weight off the Firebird's front end like you did.

Ideally, I would want an engine driven fan, a carburetor (Q-Jet would be tough on the current aftermarket LS1 intakes to be sure) Question though...Can the knock sensors be retained with that MSD system??? I would think they would be critical with the engine's high SCR. Comments???

[Z Code 400]

Andrew,

My buddy thinks this is a 5.3 litre, but I would have to look at the block to be sure. That would be the modest 320 HP/340 lb/ft TQ version I believe, but it would open up the the basic configuration for a more aggressive engine at a later date.

I do like the 9.50:1 SCR of the LM7 though....at least for a carbureted application...Plus, the complete engine is free.

I looked at a first generation Camaro website where they installed a LS1 with the cast oil pan and iron manifolds with no modifications, so I don't think my steering shaft would be an issue in my second generation car.

I know there are some similarities between your GTO and the Firebird, but what exactly can I use from your swap???

I found a steel bell housing for the LS1 with a mechanical clutch setup (since I would not want to move my floor hump back) I would stick with the Muncie.

I really like the EFI, but want to retain the ram air system. Besides, the engine has no intake, so I would have to scare everything up from scratch and C4 stuff is very pricey these days...:-) Since my car is a factory non-A/C car, everything is even more simple when it comes to swapping the motor.

Now, if I could just find a Q-Jet pattern LS1 intake and keep the factory air cleaner.....or, adpat the EFI to accept the functional ram air hood....Robert

[Z Code 400]

Andrew,

Looked at a LM7 in a truck this morning. The entire serpentine setup will work in my car, as the A/C is on a separate belt....Although the alternator mount looks kinda high for a second generation hoodline, but I can get all this truck stuff for free. It even has a belt drive water pump and fan.

Question: How much of the engine management can I keep if I switch to a carb??? Can you retain coil on plug and knock sensor capability???

It would be best to keep the EFI and adapt it to fit the 1975 ram air hood...Robert

[andrewb70]

Robert,

If you were to go with a carburetor there are no manifold options, to my knowledge, that have a q-jet flange. Edelbrock offer both a single and a dual plane intake. GM Performance parts has a single plane intake available.

The MSD 6010 ignition box is not "active." It does not use any feedback from the knock sensors to retard the timing. It comes with 6 pre-programmed curves and it is also laptop programmable so you can set your own curve based on RPM and MAP.

If you already have a Muncie and don't want to move the shifter or change the length of the driveshaft, it will be critical for the bellhousing to be in the same location as before. The Edelbrock adapter plates will keep the bellhousing in the same location when used in conjunction with Chevrolet frame stands and motor mounts. You will also need to fabricate a bracket on the bellhousing for the z-bar pivot ball.

The stock truck pan is way too deep and hangs down below the crossmember too far. Your best bet is to use the Autokraft pan or modify an F-body ban. The A/C compressor will not fit in the stock truck location when used with the Edelbrock adapters. So unless you want to slide the engine forward, which I don't like doing, you will have to move the A/C compressor. There is a company that makes a nice bracket to mount a Sanden compressor, up high on the passenger side:

http://www.kwikperf.com/lsx_ac.html

Andrew

[andrewb70]

I just had it chassis dynoed today. Anyone making guesses?

Andrew

[Z Code 400]

Andrew,

Thanks for that information. Since I get most of this tuff given to me, I thought I would just start collecting parts and take my time with it. My car has no A/C (I won't buy them with it as I hate the way it looks underhood) so I don't have to be concerned with the compressor.

As far as your dyno results, I would think around 370 HP and 415 lbs/ft of TQ (flywheel) as a guess...Robert

[andrewb70]

It made 418/389, running pig rich. I didn't bother getting it tuned right now because the shaker needs to be finished up.

Andrew

[andrewb70]

Being around car projects for a long time I can tell you that every build has a few dirty little secrets. Some have more than a few. My project is no different. When I got the car aligned the most caster that we could get was zero degrees. This might be due to frame sag, or who knows what, but thats how it was. This doesn't hurt the handling, per say, but it makes for a less than idea driving car. Without any caster the steering wheel doesn't snap back to center after making a turn. So you actually have to steer it out of a corner. Not the most ideal situation. So I called Mark at SC&C and he convinced me that his adjustable upper control arms are the way to go. I was going to get them at some point later because I want to swap to the AFX spindles, but not seemed like the perfect time.



The SPC control arms will allow me to dial in more caster while not increasing negative camber, and they will work with the AFX spindles.





When taking everything apart I noticed that my QA1 shocks were leaking and pretty much not working. This is most likely due to the fact that the car sat for a long time. So a new set is on the way and will be here tomorrow. I will send the old ones to get rebuilt and it will be good to have a spare set, just in case.

I am in a bit of a rush because I want to take the car on a road trip to Chicago on Saturday...

Andrew

[Z Code 400]

Originally Posted by andrewb70

It made 418/389, running pig rich. I didn't bother getting it tuned right now because the shaker needs to be finished up.

Andrew

That's impressive, Andrew, although I expected the see more TQ than HP. How's the idle sound???...Robert

[Z Code 400]

Andrew,

Those look like race-style bushings (Del-a-Lum) or something to that effect. What kind of ride can you expect from them???