[78w72]

The LS is a good engine, OD that gets 20+ MPG at 75+mph with the AC on, no denying that... BUT these GTOs just look lame, kinda like a grand prix or monte carlo, theres just no styling or any "retro" look that other makes & models of modern muscle cars have. Pontiac could have used a different platform or even a fresh designed car to "bring back" the GTO in the mid 2000s.

Im sure they drive nice & any modern LS or hemi engine has good performance, they just dont have the looks or styling, everytime i see one i get a good chuckle, its a family sedan with an LS in it. No thanks. If/when i buy a LS car it will be a 4th gen WS6 T/A.

[Singleton]

The 04 GTO only came about because of the performance void left when the f-body was discontinued after 02. Designing a new car would have taken many years, and Pontiac needed something quick, and the V8 Monaro was an easy choice. At the time the mustang was the only affordable rear drive v8 performance car, so I applaud Pontiac for at least trying to bring something to market on such short notice. Maybe naming it something else wouldn’t have ruffled so many feathers, but at least they put something out there for sale while Chevy and mopar had the camaro and challenger on the drawing board, five years away from production.

[Sirrotica]

As always, styling is subjective, but having owned one for 18 years (2005 model) I can say for sure that it's a people magnet. Maybe not a carousel red 69 Judge league, but I have had countless conversations with people that admire the car while I'm out driving it, or at a show. It's been that way since 2006 when I bought it new. Whether it's at a gas station, or a car show, people come up to me quite often to talk about the car.

As you can see in the picture, at one I time owned a 4th gen 1997 T/A , bright red, I never had near as many people talk to me when I owned it compared to the GTO. The GTO is a much rarer car than the T/As are. People rarely see them, so they always want a closer look.

Lucky to have found one with such low mileage, If your son takes care of it he will enjoy the car more than anyone thinks. I believe the prices have gotten pretty near their lowest for "used cars", and will start appreciating slowly for well preserved vintage, performance cars. They were fairly limited production vehicles.

I'm kind of partial to Yellow Jacket ones........here's mine:



After 18 years of ownership, it still puts a smile on my face every time I drive it.

[KSZR]

Originally Posted by 78w72

The LS is a good engine, OD that gets 20+ MPG at 75+mph with the AC on, no denying that... BUT these GTOs just look lame, kinda like a grand prix or monte carlo, theres just no styling or any "retro" look that other makes & models of modern muscle cars have. Pontiac could have used a different platform or even a fresh designed car to "bring back" the GTO in the mid 2000s.

Im sure they drive nice & any modern LS or hemi engine has good performance, they just dont have the looks or styling, everytime i see one i get a good chuckle, its a family sedan with an LS in it. No thanks. If/when i buy a LS car it will be a 4th gen WS6 T/A.

\

It may not be retro but it does look like a Pontiac! And when I hit the gas it is the fastest production GTO ever made. Not bad.

[The Champ]

Originally Posted by KSZR

\

It may not be retro but it does look like a Pontiac!

The fact that it was NOT a retro version is what makes it cool!

It was the natural evolution of the GM A body. The Holden Monaro was the equivalent of the Pontiac Tempest/LeMans/GTO body of the 60's and it maintained it's front engine RWD V8 all along, unlike their US siblings.

Doubt me?

Look at one of the 60's Holden Monaro and tell me that isn't a GM A body!



So what the Holden Monaro of the early 2000's was, is a front engine RWD V8 performance car. It kept it's identity for over 40 years and was a great way to bring it back home to the US.

[Trevor78]

And the late model GTO should never have been badged as one or a Monaro.

[GTOnly70]

Originally Posted by The Champ

The fact that it was NOT a retro version is what makes it cool!

It was the natural evolution of the GM A body. The Holden Monaro was the equivalent of the Pontiac Tempest/LeMans/GTO body of the 60's and it maintained it's front engine RWD V8 all along, unlike their US siblings.

Doubt me?

Look at one of the 60's Holden Monaro and tell me that isn't a GM A body!



So what the Holden Monaro of the early 2000's was, is a front engine RWD V8 performance car. It kept it's identity for over 40 years and was a great way to bring it back home to the US.

Looks more like a cross between a late '60's Falcon and Mercury Montego.

[Sirrotica]

FIA Homologation

The name, GTO was inspired by the Ferrari 250 GTO. The moniker is an Italian abbreviation for Gran Turismo Omologato ("grand tourer homologated"), designating being certified by the FIA for racing in the grand tourer class as a production car with at least a hundred units made.

Unusually for such a Detroit marketing ploy, a Pontiac employee actually had the car homologated by the FIA in 1964, so that it was indeed possible for the GTO to compete in European sports car racing.[7]

GTO, or Gran Turismo Omologato, means a combination/homologation of existing parts from many cars, taken to make one car, loosely translated. The GTO has been that since it's inception. Take a 389 from a big Pontiac, and put it into the Tempest body, exactly what happened the first year it was sold.

Pontiac also used many of the parts that were in their parts bins already to be used in the first GTO. Tri Power, 4 speed muncie, you probably get the idea here.

In 2001 Holden did the same thing, and made an HSV/GTO (Holden Special Vehicles). Holden had used the GTO name since 2001 on the Monaro, Pontiac again like they did with Ferrari, appropriated it later.

In 2004, With the help of Bob Lutz, Pontiac again went to the GM parts bin, and made a car out of a a bunch of other already manufactured parts that GM had made for other cars. Holden body, corvette drive train, etc. etc. Before Pontiac did it, Ferrari made a total car, from the sum of parts from many already manufactured cars in 1962. Since then, other car manufacturers have done it.

Sorry to the people that say the late model GTO should never have been named a GTO, but in the actual FIA meaning/designation, the car meets every standard of the original terminology. A homologation of parts from other cars. It looks like it meets the standards in my eyes. Pontiac even went so far as to register their car with the FIA in Europe. Between Ferrari, and Pontiac I wonder how many other manufacturers have registered their car with the FIA?

Another fact many may not know, Mitsubishi went to their parts bins, and chryslers, and came up with a Mitsubishi GTO, also known as a 3000/GT. Some of the cars in the US did have the GTO badged as an decaled emblem.

Pontiac doesn't own the GTO terminology, badging, Ferrari had it years before they used it. Pontiac and Ferrari weren't the only manufacturers to call a car made from existing parts from other cars, a GTO.

So in light of all these facts, explain to me why the late model Pontiac GTO shouldn't be called a GTO? This ought to be interesting.....

[1965gp]

Those that say it shouldn’t be called a GTO in most cases haven’t driven one. They are great performers, the looks fit in with the (then) current market and it held true to the brand.

It is at least as much of a GTO as a 73/74. I remember being shunned by the gulf coast GTOAA chapter for considering my car a GTO. I now have a 66, 68, 69, 70, another 70 and a 71 GTO and I’ll be damned if that local chapter gets any of my money. They were d!cks about it.

If the Mustang, Camaro and Challenger hadn’t gone retro I think it would have been much more successful. But as was said earlier that was still 5 years away for GM

[72projectbird]

I think they look pretty cool when they're done up like a Holden HSV.

[GT182]

I don't have a "late" model GTO, but I do have a 66 400/400hp with stock 4speed, and stock 355 rear. I also have the original 389 in storage.

And I will have, coming in about 2 months, a 2017 Holden Chevy SS. The replacement for the last GTOs seeing Pontiac folded. It will be for sale as I can't afford the insurance, and tax to get it registered here. I'd love to keep it but it's just not in the cards. I won't get rid of the 66 GTO just to keep the SS.

I believe the SS will eat the last GTOs for lunch. It's even called the "BMW Killer" by Holden. From What I've been told about it, it's true. I friend of mine almost loaded his underwear just riding in it out on I-95. The only thing that never happened to this car was the owner putting a super charger on it.

He died before he could get to it, or it would have happened. He was a jet jockey and wouldn't fly anything unless it was fast. 545 mph in an L-39 is fast, but not quite as fast as the Mig 21 he owned. He also raced in the Reno Air Races. Sadly, he passed away this past Veterans Day.

Champ, what happened to the last 46 SS Holdens built in 2018? They never came to the USA.

[beemergary]

If GM which I worked for 40 yrs. had the Mopar Mentality I probably would have the old and new in my garage.

[Trevor78]

Holden never called anything a BMW killer, because that's just lame. But it does make for a cute story, same with your mate.

[TAKerry]

Sirrotica, nice looking car.

I think its funny how so many people eschew change and modernization. The 04-06 GTO's are cool cars. As much as any other GTO. Things change, get with the program. Holden had been a GM subsidiary since before the war. I dont see any difference in this car being a Pontiac than one built in Canada. All cars wont appeal to everyone, this started as a thread asking if anyone owns one and turned into a bashing of a beloved Pontiac. '65 GP said it well.

[KSZR]

The Chevy SS is basically the same as the G8 GXP from what I understand. Both neat cars!

[Nobuddy]

For what its worth, "homologation" does not mean that a car was made from existing parts from other cars. It just means that a specific configuration has been defined by a manufacturer and approved by a governing body.

I think the Holden Monaro was/is a pretty cool car and it was nice that GM imported them to the US. Not so sure the Pontiac changes were improvements but that is a matter of personal taste.

[will slow gto]

Originally Posted by Sirrotica

As always, styling is subjective, but having owned one for 18 years (2005 model) I can say for sure that it's a people magnet. Maybe not a carousel red 69 Judge league, but I have had countless conversations with people that admire the car while I'm out driving it, or at a show. It's been that way since 2006 when I bought it new. Whether it's at a gas station, or a car show, people come up to me quite often to talk about the car.

As you can see in the picture, at one I time owned a 4th gen 1997 T/A , bright red, I never had near as many people talk to me when I owned it compared to the GTO. The GTO is a much rarer car than the T/As are. People rarely see them, so they always want a closer look.

Lucky to have found one with such low mileage, If your son takes care of it he will enjoy the car more than anyone thinks. I believe the prices have gotten pretty near their lowest for "used cars", and will start appreciating slowly for well preserved vintage, performance cars. They were fairly limited production vehicles.

I'm kind of partial to Yellow Jacket ones........here's mine:



After 18 years of ownership, it still puts a smile on my face every time I drive it.

Really nice looking GTO you have there, Sirottica. Yellow Jacket is one of the best colors for these, really helps it stand out and not be confused with a lesser car. I remember the tiny Pontiac dealer in Reedley, CA (Enns Pontiac) at one time had two 6 speed ‘06s in their showroom for a month or two. Tempting, but I already had a GTO (69) and when we bought a new vehicle the next year it was a Tahoe for the growing family. These cars still catch my eye but only room for one Goat in the garage and I’ll always be partial to the 60s versions.

Unlike the 98-02 TAs, I feel you don’t often see the late model GTOs in pristine condition. Probably due to the fact that they made a lot less… One other issue, a car’s interior I feel is an underrated aspect of the overall vehicle and it seems like the leather seats in these are always splitting at the seams. If someone can convince me otherwise, great - but that’s a big bummer to me.

[The Champ]

Originally Posted by GT182

Champ, what happened to the last 46 SS Holdens built in 2018? They never came to the USA.

When did I become a 2018 Chevy SS expert?

That 2017 is something to think about. I'd be interested in learning the details on it to decide if it's a toy car I'd want to pick up.

I've started looking for a G8/GTO/Grand Prix V8 GXP, but would consider a V8 SS, a CTSV or maybe the right BMW.

[Sirrotica]

Originally Posted by will slow gto

Really nice looking GTO you have there, Sirottica. Yellow Jacket is one of the best colors for these, really helps it stand out and not be confused with a lesser car. I remember the tiny Pontiac dealer in Reedley, CA (Enns Pontiac) at one time had two 6 speed ‘06s in their showroom for a month or two. Tempting, but I already had a GTO (69) and when we bought a new vehicle the next year it was a Tahoe for the growing family. These cars still catch my eye but only room for one Goat in the garage and I’ll always be partial to the 60s versions.

Unlike the 98-02 TAs, I feel you don’t often see the late model GTOs in pristine condition. Probably due to the fact that they made a lot less… One other issue, a car’s interior I feel is an underrated aspect of the overall vehicle and it seems like the leather seats in these are always splitting at the seams. If someone can convince me otherwise, great - but that’s a big bummer to me.

I had the rear seat back replaced under warranty, it has split again. The front drivers eat is really split badly, the passenger seat is still pretty good. There is an aftermarket company that makes new seat covers, last I checked it was around $900 for front and rear seat covers, I'm sure it's north of a grand now.

Some people have said they salvaged their seat covers by re stitching them, but mine have the leather ripped. If not conditioned regularly the leather shrinks, and the crappy thread rips. I wish I had paid closer attention when the seams started pulling, and conditioned my leather more often. Hindsight is always 20/20.....

Sunlight/UV is what dries out the leather, so garaged examples are less likely to have torn seams.

[GTOnly70]

Originally Posted by Nobuddy

For what its worth, "homologation" does not mean that a car was made from existing parts from other cars. It just means that a specific configuration has been defined by a manufacturer and approved by a governing body.

Correct.

homologated; homologating
Synonyms of homologate
transitive verb

: SANCTION, ALLOW
especially : to approve or confirm officially

Example: In 1969, NASCAR homologation rules stated that 500 copies of a car had to be built, but there was a rule change for the 1970 season in which the Superbird would compete.