[NeighborsComplaint]

It's been a great run Mikey. Your enthusiasm and claims of owning a 1 of none 1967 428 HO tripower mystery motor have provided invaluable entertainment. However, it's time to get in touch with that reality we as kids thought served no purpose than to spoil our fun. Time to take the motor to a professional and flush all your theories down the toilet.

It's time to determine if the rods are installed backwards or just the pistons. Unless you know what you are looking for or have rod to reference, you won't know the difference. Both sides of the rods have a chamfer. One side is "eased" to prevent stress cracking form a sharp edge, The other side has a much larger chamfer intended to be installed facing counterweights and allowing the rod to ride over the fillet all the way to the counterweight.

When you install the rods backwards, there is no chamfer to clear the fillet on the crankshaft and secondary thrust wedges the rod bearing into the crank fillet causing the cap to displace and create a sharp edge contact point between the rods on the same journal and ultimately seize the rod to the crankshaft.

I have every confidence your "ghost noise" is one rod face bouncing over the edge of the displaced cap at low RPM. At higher RPM, it becomes masked by other mechanical noises within the engine and just becomes an odd whirring or scuffing sound that seems to follow the engine RPM but seems oddly out of synch with it.

The noise would eventually go away once the engine goes silent after you spin a rod bearing or two and seize the crankshaft.

[TRADERMIKE 2012]

Originally Posted by NeighborsComplaint

It's been a great run Mikey. Your enthusiasm and claims of owning a 1 of none 1967 428 HO Tripower mystery motor has provided invaluable entertainment.

Mikes reply:

I am not here to put on a show for anybody nor am I wasting your time and I do have a Manual and I do read it etc...


However, it's time to get in touch with that reality. We as kids thought it served no purpose, than to spoil our fun. Time to take the motor to a professional and flush all your theories down the toilet.

Mikes Reply:

I can't afford to pay a Mechanics wage and I would not let one near my Car. I am in reality at all times, those who think that I am not, should check themselves, before casting those aspersions at me.

It's time to determine if the rods are installed backwards or just the pistons. Unless you know what, you are looking for or have a Rod to reference, you won't know the difference. Both sides of the rods have a chamfer. One side is "eased" to prevent stress cracking from a sharp edge, The other side has a much larger chamfer intended to be installed facing the counterweights and allowing the rod to ride over the fillet all the way to the counterweight.

When you install the rods backwards, there is no chamfer to clear the fillet on the crankshaft and secondary, thrust wedges the rod bearing into the crank fillet, causing the cap to displace and create a sharp edge, contact point between the rods on the same journal and ultimately seize the rod to the crankshaft.

Mikes reply:

Good stuff.

I have every confidence that your "ghost noise" is one rod face bouncing over the edge of the displaced cap, at low RPM. At higher RPM, it becomes masked by other mechanical noises within the engine and just becomes an odd whirring or scuffing. This sound, that seems to follow the engine RPM but seems oddly out of synch with it.

Mikes Reply:

Better stuff.

The noise will eventually go away, once the engine goes silent, after you spin a rod bearing or two and seize the crankshaft.

Mikes reply:

I won't wait that long, thank you!

I am reading about the Pistons and Crank as we speak and that piece of information says it all. I need reasons "not" just do this and that and then I jump. Thanks, and I will be posting later. I have been searching for the differences and I especially find that the Pictures in the 1967 Pontiac Service Manual, that were posted to this forum, were incorrect at least and confusing. One drawing has you standing in the front of the car, the other is viewing as if you're sitting in the driver's seat. Also, I took two years of AutoCAD in Mechanical and Architectual drawing and recieved an "A" for my effort.

The Draftsman, of the poor Images of those Pistons should have simply called out the offset and pointed to it. He also should have drawn an arrow from which the Eye was looking from. How many Pontiac Engines were built wrong from those Pictures, is unknown. I am at least content that this Motor works, because on the other hand, it should have been seized, a long time ago. This is why they can't make me believe that I am in any immediate danger. I am "not" saying they're wrong and some people have convinced me that this Engine can run the way it was built, these parts did not start hitting each other, that's bull.

By this weekend the Flexplate will be installed. I have already obligated myself with that one and I should be Testing and Tuning by next week. The effects that the Flexplate has on the noise issue is to be discovered. Then What is next?

[tom s]

Was there something in this thread that had oil temp at 400 degrees?Tom

[NeighborsComplaint]

Originally Posted by tom s

Was there something in this thread that had oil temp at 400 degrees?Tom

Yeah but he's got a half dozen or so (pick a number, it doesn't matter) oil coolers plumbed in that take care of all that.

[tom s]

JMO,something in the rotating super heating the oil.Tom

[TRADERMIKE 2012]

[QUOTE=rolling money pits;6469538] I saw cinder blocks being mentioned a few posts back…

I sure hope you’re not using those to support the vehicle in any way, or more to the point, supporting anything you may be sticking your melon under.[/QUOTE

The thing you don't know about me is that I have been in the Boat business all my life, I set up Boats in malls, convention centers, Boat yards and I can remove Trailers from under Boats and Load Boats onto Trailers, got the point. i USE THEM AS SAFTYS, THE ENGINE IS ON STANDS, JACKs and then as a safety precaution, I add additional stands were needed. I also chock the front and back of each wheel etc...

I also am a master at tying ropes to tie down boats and use that knowledge in everything I move and trailer. I have a Car Hauler for my car and a flat Trailer that I constructed from an abandoned Boat trailer, plus a Lawn enclosed type Trailer that I remanufactured to suit my various needs. From going down to Homestead after Hurricane Andrew and painting signs on it for my Carpet business to converting it into a tool box for years, and today it is air conditioned and has 110 for the compressor, etc...

I have many miles towing Boats over the years in and out of Boat shows then I sell the Boats and then I break down the shows. I also lived at the Marina that my father was in business with the owner of an in out storage facility and became the Night watchman too. I had to tie down the Houseboat with spring lines and on all four corners, got the picture yet. There is nothing that I can't tie down safely or tow with a common Truck or Van, I am only limited to my driver's license. I have a 33-motor home Winnebago type, 1984 I think, that I drove. I have carried more cinder blocks from one show to the other than I would like to remember. In fact, in my Martial Arts days, I used to break a flat slab in half for practice. I also chopped a piece of marine plywood between two metal garbage cans and left a 2" deep indentation in each of them. With my foot, I chopped a 2" x 4" x 18" piece of wet pine wood with my foot, it would only bend in half like the oak wet. It turns out that working at a marine yard and breaking oak, wet from crates, was the norm. Later I learned that in shows Martial Artest dry the wood and break it along the grain, not me, I was breaking it wet and against the grain, because I did Know better. Being a Gymnast first gave me the edge on the other people. When I was at Memphis State University, I did a split and scissored up to a Handstand on my finger tips and held it for Bill Wallis who taught at MSU at the time. I have done moves in Gymnastics and with the martial Arts that no Man on earth can do any better, only as well. When I focus on anything and believe I can do it, because another man has done in front of me, then I can do it, with practice. I hope that all of you can stop with the ridicule now that you know to whom you speak! I also dive like a pro and throw and catch a baseball very accurately, when I focus. Inside me is a true athlete born to compete. I also manifest a sixth sense, if I may, at times.

By the way, it is written that my (1967 428 ci spec. equip. 428 HO "A" 4bbl YK 1045.)

There are 1045 of them built in 1967 , I guess it is back to special again or it always was, your busted.

[Drag Star Le Mans]

[QUOTE=TRADERMIKE 2012;6469659]

Originally Posted by rolling money pits

I saw cinder blocks being mentioned a few posts back…

I sure hope you’re not using those to support the vehicle in any way, or more to the point, supporting anything you may be sticking your melon under.[/QUOTE

The thing you don't know about me is that I have been in the Boat business all my life, I set up Boats in malls, convention centers, Boat yards and I can remove Trailers from under Boats and Load Boats onto Trailers, got the point. i USE THEM AS SAFTYS, THE ENGINE IS ON STANDS, JACKs and then as a safety precaution, I add additional stands were needed. I also chock the front and back of each wheel etc...

I also am a master at tying ropes to tie down boats and use that knowledge in everything I move and trailer. I have a Car Hauler for my car and a flat Trailer that I constructed from an abandoned Boat trailer, plus a Lawn enclosed type Trailer that I remanufactured to suit my various needs. From going down to Homestead after Hurricane Andrew and painting signs on it for my Carpet business to converting it into a tool box for years, and today it is air conditioned and has 110 for the compressor, etc...

I have many miles towing Boats over the years in and out of Boat shows then I sell the Boats and then I break down the shows. I also lived at the Marina that my father was in business with the owner of an in out storage facility and became the Night watchman too. I had to tie down the Houseboat with spring lines and on all four corners, got the picture yet. There is nothing that I can't tie down safely or tow with a common Truck or Van, I am only limited to my driver's license. I have a 33-motor home Winnebago type, 1984 I think, that I drove. I have carried more cinder blocks from one show to the other than I would like to remember. In fact, in my Martial Arts days, I used to break a flat slab in half for practice. I also chopped a piece of marine plywood between two metal garbage cans and left a 2" deep indentation in each of them. With my foot, I chopped a 2" x 4" x 18" piece of wet pine wood with my foot, it would only bend in half like the oak wet. It turns out that working at a marine yard and breaking oak, wet from crates, was the norm. Later I learned that in shows Martial Artest dry the wood and break it along the grain, not me, I was breaking it wet and against the grain, because I did Know better. Being a Gymnast first gave me the edge on the other people. When I was at Memphis State University, I did a split and scissored up to a Handstand on my finger tips and held it for Bill Wallis who taught at MSU at the time. I have done moves in Gymnastics and with the martial Arts that no Man on earth can do any better, only as well. When I focus on anything and believe I can do it, because another man has done in front of me, then I can do it, with practice. I hope that all of you can stop with the ridicule now that you know to whom you speak! I also dive like a pro and throw and catch a baseball very accurately, when I focus. Inside me is a true athlete born to compete. I also manifest a sixth sense, if I may, at times.

By the way, it is written that my (1967 428 ci spec. equip. 428 HO "A" 4bbl YK 1045.)

There are 1045 of them built in 1967 , I guess it is back to special again or it always was, your busted.

Are you serious??? This is over the top narcissist stuff tight here. I don't even know what to think of this thread anymore as it seems to have turned into a self severing ego trip.

[TRADERMIKE 2012]

Originally Posted by tom s

JMO, something, in the rotating, super heating the oil. Tom

Mike wants to know:

I Wrote in one the Picture attachments, that when I was taking Temp. readings at various places along the travel of fluids of both the Trans. and Motor Oils, that the Temp of the Motor Oil at the Oil Pan was 400 degrees F. Considering the higher Temp. at the Cylinder Walls, 400 degrees F. sounds like a normal Temp., at the oil Pan. Can some of you please measure the temp. at your Oil Pan, so we can compare your results to mine? I would not know what exactly the Temp. should be at the Pan.

In the Carpet business we melt our glue between 350 degrees F., for a slow seem and 400 degrees F., for a fast seem. The oil has Parafin or wax in it or so I read. Plus, cooking at those Temp. seem to be the norm.

When I pulled the Intake Manifold from my 1979 Dodge B-200 Van, the oil had solidified, like a hard Black crust then stuck to the bottom side of the Intake Manifold. I already said that I get I'll just thinking about, how I abused that, Van. So, I deduced for that to happen that a distillation process went on, over the years, to work against gravity, in that way?

By not changing the oil at the recommended 3,500-mile interval, I burned out the properties of the various chemicals in the oil, that were supposed to protect the oil from doing that.

[TRADERMIKE 2012]

[QUOTE=Drag Star Le Mans;6469661]

Originally Posted by TRADERMIKE 2012

Are you serious??? This is over the top narcissist stuff right here. I don't even know what to think of this thread anymore as it seems to have turned into a self-severing ego trip.

Mikes reply:

What goes around comes around, must keep them in check, its harmless, take it with a grain of salt...

[TRADERMIKE 2012]

Originally Posted by "QUICK-SILVER"

Bruce Lee can't fix this. Chuck Norris maybe, just not Bruce Lee.

Clay

Mikes Reply:

Super Foot- Bill Wallace is still doing public seminars and making videos, just visit him on the internet, in his 80's, he just works out using a chair. Last time I looked. He has kept up with his Flexability, he said in the video. When I was in his class, he sparred and stood in one position the entire class for half an hour, not moving, focused on his opponent, with his leg up in the air, just like VanDam does today, with his split. Chuck Norris was the best at no touch, so the video tells. Wallace and the other judges initiated the hit above the waist policy. Wallace admits that he has a problem with one leg and does not want to get hurt. Now, being a judge, he won't worry about getting tackled, like today's gladiators would do, with mixed Martial arts. They are the true Spartans, like in Romen times. Wallace would get beat, if he had to fight like them, as the videos say, because he could not protect his bad leg. He, with the assistance of the other Judges, chose above the waist with contact rules that just happen to benefit Mr. Wallace, in those days. Then he perfected his form to the rules at the time, in his favor. Bill claims that his foot has developed a mind (muscle reflex) of its own, he doesn't even know where or when it's going to strike. I believe him, because Bruce even said: "don't think, free your mind from any distractions". I had to do that before I performed a gymnastics routine, I was used to that kind of freeness, to begin with, when I first began practicing Martial for Arts myself. I have performed moves that I never learned from anyone on earth to others in real time/world fight, that came from out of left field. I simply read and looked at the pictures of a Ti-chi Martial Artest, along with practice, believing in one self and muscle memory. Chi-mind control and being physically fit was the key. I wish that I could still do those things today, however life took another path, the road not taken maybe?

I liken the above to be dissimilar to how my father thinks, in fact, when he raced Gymkona on Long Island NY, if he designed the race course for the upcoming weekend event, he would not race, because he knew what kind of race course best suited his Corvette for example long straight- aways into loop type un-hair-pin turns, but they would make him race anyway. Bunch of good guys just having fun, just like us. Mike out.

[TRADERMIKE 2012]

Originally Posted by Stuart

Like I said earlier:



If you don't have anything beneficial to say, please think twice about posting.

Mikes reply:

Thank you for that comment 2x that!

[JSchmitz]

Originally Posted by TRADERMIKE 2012

Mikes reply:

Thank you for that comment 2x that!

It applies to you too!!!

[NeighborsComplaint]

[QUOTE=TRADERMIKE 2012;6469659]

Originally Posted by rolling money pits

By the way, it is written that my (1967 428 ci spec. equip. 428 HO "A" 4bbl YK 1045.)

There are 1045 of them built in 1967 , I guess it is back to special again or it always was, your busted.

The generally accepted number is 1,457, all 4Bbl, all installed in full size Pontiacs. None were equipped from the factory with a '66 tri-power induction nor did they have the antique camshaft you insisted was OEM in "your special engine". One of none, like I said. Unbusted.

I'm going to step out of this nonsense now, but good luck with your "special engine", you're going to need it.

[Dragncar]

[QUOTE=TRADERMIKE 2012;6469659]

Originally Posted by rolling money pits

I saw cinder blocks being mentioned a few posts back…

I sure hope you’re not using those to support the vehicle in any way, or more to the point, supporting anything you may be sticking your melon under.[/QUOTE

The thing you don't know about me is that I have been in the Boat business all my life, I set up Boats in malls, convention centers, Boat yards and I can remove Trailers from under Boats and Load Boats onto Trailers, got the point. i USE THEM AS SAFTYS, THE ENGINE IS ON STANDS, JACKs and then as a safety precaution, I add additional stands were needed. I also chock the front and back of each wheel etc...

I also am a master at tying ropes to tie down boats and use that knowledge in everything I move and trailer. I have a Car Hauler for my car and a flat Trailer that I constructed from an abandoned Boat trailer, plus a Lawn enclosed type Trailer that I remanufactured to suit my various needs. From going down to Homestead after Hurricane Andrew and painting signs on it for my Carpet business to converting it into a tool box for years, and today it is air conditioned and has 110 for the compressor, etc...

I have many miles towing Boats over the years in and out of Boat shows then I sell the Boats and then I break down the shows. I also lived at the Marina that my father was in business with the owner of an in out storage facility and became the Night watchman too. I had to tie down the Houseboat with spring lines and on all four corners, got the picture yet. There is nothing that I can't tie down safely or tow with a common Truck or Van, I am only limited to my driver's license. I have a 33-motor home Winnebago type, 1984 I think, that I drove. I have carried more cinder blocks from one show to the other than I would like to remember. In fact, in my Martial Arts days, I used to break a flat slab in half for practice. I also chopped a piece of marine plywood between two metal garbage cans and left a 2" deep indentation in each of them. With my foot, I chopped a 2" x 4" x 18" piece of wet pine wood with my foot, it would only bend in half like the oak wet. It turns out that working at a marine yard and breaking oak, wet from crates, was the norm. Later I learned that in shows Martial Artest dry the wood and break it along the grain, not me, I was breaking it wet and against the grain, because I did Know better. Being a Gymnast first gave me the edge on the other people. When I was at Memphis State University, I did a split and scissored up to a Handstand on my finger tips and held it for Bill Wallis who taught at MSU at the time. I have done moves in Gymnastics and with the martial Arts that no Man on earth can do any better, only as well. When I focus on anything and believe I can do it, because another man has done in front of me, then I can do it, with practice. I hope that all of you can stop with the ridicule now that you know to whom you speak! I also dive like a pro and throw and catch a baseball very accurately, when I focus. Inside me is a true athlete born to compete. I also manifest a sixth sense, if I may, at times.

By the way, it is written that my (1967 428 ci spec. equip. 428 HO "A" 4bbl YK 1045.)

There are 1045 of them built in 1967 , I guess it is back to special again or it always was, your busted.

What, so you are a boat master, gymnast master, martial arts master, Mario Andretti and Babe Ruth all in one !
Oh, and have a super human sixth sense.
I guess it takes all that to be a Pontiac Master.

[Tom Vaught]

[QUOTE=Dragncar;6469766]

Originally Posted by TRADERMIKE 2012

What, so you are a boat master, gymnast master, martial arts master, Mario Andretti and Babe Ruth all in one !
Oh, and have a super human sixth sense.
I guess it takes all that to be a Pontiac Master.

NOW THAT IS SOME FUNNY CHIT, DRAGNCAR.

LOL!

YAWN, Bedtime for me.

Have a good night Dragncar and Forum people.

TV

[Cliff R]

+2.

We need some "funny chit" on here once in a while. Laughing certainly beats crying and as FUBAR'd as this 428 engine is and unlikely it will get fixed correctly in the next couple hundred years or so, laughing still beats crying in my book!.........Cliff Out

[JSchmitz]

Time to lock this one up (and throw away the key) IMHO...

[steve25]

I hope it does not come down to this….but I don’t want to see anyones 428 4 bolt block get wasted.

So far he has not thrown a rod and I hope that issues that could potentially lead to that are fully overcome.

[Cliff R]

I made the OP aware of the MAIN ISSUES with this engine about 400-500 posts ago. It went on deaf ears. Instead we are searching the Internet and various other sources to the brink of extinction to find another potential cause when the OBVIOUS problems were right in your face a couple of times and easy repairs made. You can Google all you want, and go all over these Forums and get BUTT LOADS of input on your issues, you can even wear out a few resident "experts" here to a point where they will tell you piston offset the wrong direction and rods backwards on the cranks throws is OK, but as with everything else on this planet it is NOT possible to get past the basic laws of physics with these things.

Somewhere in the history of this engine it got FUBAR'd. The problems from that deal are finally manifesting themselves to where the correct repairs are REQUIRED. Any other course of action is just wasted time/funds and additional "drama" on the thread at this point.

Getting mad and breaking up cinder blocks with your bare hands woln't help, neither will doing hand stands on your fingertips. If I were Mike I'd smoke a hog, get a keg of beer and invite over ALL your friends and even folks you don't know. If I lived closer I'd be the first one in line to help out and get some free smoked pork belly.

Have the car up on cinder blocks, hood off, and before you let everyone get drunker than monkeys have them help you remove the engine again and pull it down to parade rest. Once all the pistons are out locate the chamfered side of the rods and "notch" on the pistons. Put them all back in the right bores with both the rods and pistons facing the right direction. No honing needed, no new rings, etc. You "knurled" the valve guides for crying out loud so throwing more money at rings and such isn't going to be worth the additional expense.

If the rings don't seal up well just get some Comet cleaner and drizzle some into the carb/intake with it running on fast idle at 1500rpm's or so. That'll either get them to "bite" into the bores or give it a miserable death. Either way you'll be a LOT further ahead than you are at this point......IMHO.......Cliff Out

[Nobuddy]

Originally Posted by Cliff R

If the rings don't seal up well just get some Comet cleaner and drizzle some into the carb/intake with it running on fast idle at 1500rpm's or so. That'll either get them to "bite" into the bores or give it a miserable death. Either way you'll be a LOT further ahead than you are at this point......IMHO.......Cliff Out

BonAmi cleanser, not Comet..