[speedshopmike]

great kris, thanks muuch, and glad it's going well.
cam that big won't like going lean as you've found; too much reversion.
still using autotune?

[krisr]

Initially autotune worked well but once I got it roughed out (set EGO feedback to about 20% controller authority) and I knew I was in the ballpark I payed more attention to logs & seat of the pants tuning instead of staring at the AFR gauge. There is no way I could reliably tune it for all areas of street driving on a dyno I don't think... Not without paying a small fortune!

I'll be definately doing WOT power runs on the dyno though!

You still thinking about going the Megasquirt way?

[speedshopmike]

yup, sure am.
my miser half is battling with my "fu&k it" half
meanwhile, i actually wanted to do it this past evening but couldn't, am sticking a freshened holley 800 spreadbore doublepump carb on it.
this motor has never actually had a carb on it; it's had the holley projection since fresh.
at any rate, i my quest to get it happy immediately, the carb will do until i choose and install a different efi ecm then the existing one.
meanwhile, teh carb can stay on it till the final connection's made on the efi.
i'm actually leaving the holley ecm hooked up to run the fuel pump; it's too stupid to know it's not doing anything; the TB physical install is fine, so all i gotta do is run a MAP hose and rewire the existing harness to the MS.
ultimately it'll be port efi, but again, expediency is big with me.
that, though, has been the hold up for me in actually moving forward - do the work to go port or let it eat as is for now.
plan is to buy MS, if that's the choice, which is likely, from teh most decent dude at diyautotune.
i pestered the bejeezus out of him for a while asking very specific and lengthy questions; he took the time to fully and explicitly answer them, and was honest; couple he didn't know, he said so, no BS.
my kinda guy and he'll get my money when the time comes.
i can tune a holley asleep, so it oughta run far better then it ever has to date on average.
the holley system works swell at 30% (guess) and up throttle positions - below that it's hopeless on my application.
it takes so little throttle to maintain cruising speed it's nuts; easy to tune for good a/f's at any given point but move gas 2% and it's off the scale wrong again - alpha n = dumb.
very appropriate for a big cammed car, though, that needs to run fatter at low throttle then mine.
at any rate, likely by end of summer i'll have it back to (proper) efi.

i'd not be so adamant on wot runs being mandatory on a dyno.
set up more fuel and less timing by 20% then you think it should have, then work backwards, starting with fuel trims.
the wideband will keep you otu of trouble.
start in low gears, then apply more load using higher gears as you get closer.
listen for detonation; preferably have a knock sensor and monitor.
dunno if MS has the ability yet to do more then monitor; i recall it can do that, though.

[speedshopmike]

in fairness to teh holley, a big part of the issue is the non-propgressive throttle body.
looking forward to spreadbore action of the carb; nice and gentle.

plan si to make the holley the air valve when the efi time comes and it's port injected.
pretty sure i can tune around the non-linear issues of the TPS response vs unequal sized butterflies, but again, it should drive nice and sweet if i t'll take a tune.
and still look like it has a carb on it, to some extent.

[speedshopmike]

yes, carburetor goooooooooooooood.................
for now.

[Karch]

Originally Posted by speedshopmike

in fairness to teh holley, a big part of the issue is the non-propgressive throttle body.
looking forward to spreadbore action of the carb; nice and gentle.

plan si to make the holley the air valve when the efi time comes and it's port injected.
pretty sure i can tune around the non-linear issues of the TPS response vs unequal sized butterflies, but again, it should drive nice and sweet if i t'll take a tune.
and still look like it has a carb on it, to some extent.

Me too...just going to cut off the electric pump to the carb.

[speedshopmike]

karch:
yes, cool.
how'd you key the throttle shaft to the TPS?
i know you wanted the ability to go back to carburetion in a heartbeat, but once you're confident int eh efi, yank the carb and mill out the boosters, etc and make it aerodynamically pretty so it flows more air.

[Karch]

Oh come on...it's fun to see the strange looks on people's face when I describe the parallel/redundant systems. I may do the same, at least for a short time, with the ignition system.

I modified a plastic 'spacer' to fit nicely into the TPS switch, and I used a stud and interference fit on the carb (er, throttle body) side.

My actual plan is to eventually buy a 1200 cfm efi throttle body. I may add IAC to this setup, but not sure if I want to tackle that until the rest is running.

I still need to figure out if I need to add injector bungs to the intake, or just place the injectors right into the manifold?

Krisr...Trigge wheel is on it's way, though they did not give me a tracking number.

[krisr]

Sweeeeeeet!... I've updated to the 2.54 code which has wheel decoding and looking at getting an electromotive inc mag pickup and converting over to crank trigger sooner than later I think...

You said you're looking at using a tomahawk manifold yeah? No bungs needed. Most you will have to do is finish the insides of the ports where the (i think it was 5/16) drill breaks through so the spray pattern of the injector isn't blocked as the nozzle doesn't sit inside the port. It's only a minor clean up anyway. If you want me to take some close up pics of my injectors/rails etc... let me know...

[krisr]

OK haven't reported in for a little now but I can proudly say that my Megasquirt EFI conversion is now a 100% success! I flashed back to the earlier 2.35 MS2 code so I can troubleshoot some IAC issues for some others + myself which now appear to be working for me. So now I have stepper motor idle air control for cold start/cranking situations

I took the car to a friends wedding last night (60mile round trip) and it performed flawlessly now that i've fixed my stumble problem (2 dead transistors). It is mapped in pretty much on the money with the AFR display in my dash not doing anything funky or any wild jumps. Have to work on acceleration/decel enrichments now to get gear changes a bit smoother and work a bit more on WOT.

What's a carb again?

[speedshopmike]

great for you, kris.
what do you think killed the transistors?
how much fuel are you pulling on decel?

[krisr]

At first guess, might not have had enough heat in the soldering iron so the longer it warmed up the pad & pins, it cooked the guts of the transistors. Before I had 'jumpy' timing at idle but now it's rock solid!

At the moment i'm only pulling out 5% of fuel on decel but i'm about to change that to 15% and see what it does. Without the stumble I'm managing to really tune in the cruise area more efficiently and test the limits of what sort of AFR the engine wants so I might be able to get some decent mileage, considering the price of fuel ...

[Karch]

Hey Kris, and updates on your ride?

Spring is just around the corner...

[krisr]

It's going well man. I hardly touch the base tune itself anymore except just to play around and learn a bit more. Basically just get in and turn the key. It's starting to really warm up here now so i'm not going to worry about trying to get cold starts any better as they're already pretty good.

I haven't had a chance to put your toothed wheel on yet as the code for missing wheel decoding is still very beta at the moment so i'm happy enough just to leave it with the distributor.

Hope all is well over that side of the planet

[7T2]

[QUOTE=krisr]It's going well man. I hardly touch the base tune itself anymore except just to play around and learn a bit more. Basically just get in and turn the key.

indeed! i too just jump in, flip the key and take off. i used to always have my laptop riding shotgun, but no more. i prefer the ms v2.2 because of the simplicity of the board construct for troubleshooting (double side v 4 layer laminate). and also because i run hi Z injectors so 2 FET's are all i need

i jumped on megasquirt.com to see whats the latest, seems to be some kind of closed loop tuning path from o2 sens to fuel map during driving. maybe via a vex table interface???

anyway, maybe someone more ms up to date than i can advise.
thanks,
jim

[krisr]

Originally Posted by 7T2

indeed! i too just jump in, flip the key and take off. i used to always have my laptop riding shotgun, but no more. i prefer the ms v2.2 because of the simplicity of the board construct for troubleshooting (double side v 4 layer laminate). and also because i run hi Z injectors so 2 FET's are all i need

I'm running the v3.0 board and driving ignition also. All the circuitry seems fine on the V3. The only issue I had was the VR input circuit, I overheated 2 of the transistors when soldering them in. Replaced them and all is good!

Originally Posted by 7T2

i jumped on megasquirt.com to see whats the latest, seems to be some kind of closed loop tuning path from o2 sens to fuel map during driving. maybe via a vex table interface???

What the later code is doing is "Automatic Mixture Control". It's the same thing as the 'auto tune' Eric wrote into the MT software, except AMC doesn't require a laptop. I'm actually running that in my car now. It checks your EGO correction every 10 seconds, makes a 1% adjustment if needed then goes back into loop. After 20 minutes of driving it will burn the new fuel map to flash if the option is checked. It's a very VERY slow mechanism to get your VE table right but can work. I preferred MSTweak and I see now the MegaLogViewer has a VE analyser. Worth checking out.

[speedshopmike]

KRISR, anyupdates?
anyone else have something to contribute?
anyone running a distributor with a pickup only, no module, and letting the ecm fire the ignition box at the right time (ie, letting the ecm control, directly, igntition timing)
like to hear from street users of any decent efi system that has self-tuning and wideband capability, please.

[Karch]

Mike, ante up for the MS system and let us know

It will do all you are asking, but I can't do it yet...I just flat out don't have time to get it together and tune.

[krisr]

Mine has been running pretty good lately. I've been testing out the new code for Al and getting him to add in some nifty features which are only small, but sweet none the less!...

Just stuff like when you key the car to ignition, prime the pump for X seconds before firing the prime pulse so the injectors can clear the air out, which makes cold starts rock solid every time. And intake air temp retard for super hot days, but have an RPM compensation so at idle it doesn't retard at all... Big players like MoTeC have these sorts of features, but stuff paying $3000AUD for an ECU!

As you know my ECU does all the fuelling & spark all in the one box aswell as idle air motor control for cold starts, not closed loop idle yet. I tuned mine completely on the street after laying out a TargetAFR map and just logged everything for analysis. Can't ask for much more for the price. One thing I will stipulate right now, make sure your wiring is no less than 110% perfect! Solder & Heatshrink everything!

[speedshopmike]

good to hear from you kris, and glad things are well.
thanks for the update; i
ll be bugging you a lot in the future, i suspect!