[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Originally Posted by besserspat

Like the old wise saying , " Never Book a Judge by Its color. "

You should get paid for that punch line ! ®

[Mcronk]

Best explanation of why auction prices are what they are!

And it was an auction full of people who WANTED to spend money.
Not a website full of guys who HATE to spend money.

From what I understand the block casting for a RA II car should be 9792506 either full casting for early cars or ground and stamped 2506 for later cars, yes? I searched for a correct block code/date code block for my car and found a few. Some had the full 9792506 casting number (usually with a C118 date code). Others had the last 4 digits ground off and stamped 2506. See pics of blocks. Would or could there be any other casting code for a RA II block?

[stevesbirds]

I wrote down that list of the choice cars. But Mecum is a PITA site to negotiate. Even when I register, cannot gain any info. Since when is a SOLD amount a guarded secret?. Do they think their stuff is so fancy you have to put down money just to observe and gain some market knowledge?
To me, Mecum has vecomr a big turnoff. Follow tge regionals and they get some great choices for exactly the reasons of my bitch. My collection won't go through Mecum. Sheesh.

Can someone with money down produce those SOLD numbers.

P.S. even if America goes soft on muscle, there is but one national collection (USA), over but 10 years of peak output, and the whole world values it. The numbers are better than many alternative investments, even adjusting for inflation.

[Mcronk]

Did you join Mecum online? I am a Mecum member and have no issues seeing any of the lots or their prices/bids. If you do not create an account you cannot see the prices. It is free to join.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Originally Posted by Mcronk

... Would or could there be any other casting code for a RA II block?

I don't trust my memory about that.
Seems that has been covered in good detail on here, but can't remember if in a Roll Call thread or somewhere else.
Try to send a PM to TheBoss on here, he has handled a lot of that hardware and used to have all that stuff down patent.

I don't think he comes on here very much anymore.
Try PM and an email via PY server.
If all else fails I could light a fire and send him some smoke signals.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Originally Posted by stevesbirds

Can someone with money down produce those SOLD numbers..

I made a listing further back on here of what all the RoundPort cars sold for.
It was just the Hammer prices without the 10% gratuity.

I don't know why they make us log in to see the prices.
Maybe they use that to gain higher number of members since that is mostly what most folks want to see.

It is free to sign up.
Maybe your log in hasn't been processed yet.
There is a link to their search page in the first post on this thread.
Drop Box Kissimmee 2023 , then type in Pontiac, or Judge or GTO
... or the lot number (S123 etc)

['ol Pinion head]

Mark, Full casting number 9792506 would be correct.
Hot wiped & stamped 2506 came later.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

I think he may also be curious about the potentials on the date codes for 68 production blocks too.

I could get mixed up on the head dates and block dates of 68 and spit out the wrong data about the wrong item.

TheBoss is/was a 68 RamAirGuru
But not necessarily the only one..

[turbo69bird]

Originally Posted by PAUL K

I think it matters a lot when additional money exchanges hands because it is the original engine. It's also not right for the guys that really have the original engine.... Years ago I looked into selling one of my cars at an auction. I strongly felt it was wrong that my car with its original engine, had to be presented the same as a similar car with an obvious restamp "number matching" engine.

I personally would want to know if the car I'm buying has been rebodied or not. I know some guys don't care, but it would make a difference to me. I recall someone comparing it to whether one's girlfriend used to be a man. Some folks might be bothered by that and some won't.

And Paul I am not singling you out at all w this post it’s just what I picked to throw an answer up . Please DO NOT take this post personally it’s not directed at you personally.
I’ve felt the same way you have before as have many so it’s a round about answer. My thoughts on this topic are different than they once were .maybe it’s the RAV stuff w no real numbers that changed my thinking IDK.

As I stated I’d likely agree w that if I had a born with block . BUT I also agree that this chasing of original/ matching numbers contributes to the likelihood of restamps .
A hypothetical-
Let’s say I put a as cast C118 block in my car (it was raced w one all it’s life anyway) the buyer KNOWS unequivocally that this IS a real RAII / RAIV L67 intended block . There’s zero question. So what does it matter ? Vs a stamped 2506 which appears to be matching numbers. Maybe it is and maybe it isn’t? Which one makes a BUYER feel all warm and cozy at night. I know which one would make me feel better .
BUT that’s not really what I was getting at originally. What I was getting at was that this discrepancy in original engine (which in some cases I can guarantee you is a pipe dream) prices Vs SR / or correct engine codes pricing , only pours gas on a fire that breeds restamps.

Why should a guy who’s honest and finds a real equivalent engjne whether it be same exact stamp or equal Ww Vs wh , stamp or SR of equal type get docked $$ when the restamped gets all the money?

It’s a flawed system .
And this part isn’t directed at you, but

Why does a guy w an original engine care what the other guy gets for his, Is he petty? Why does it matter, is it that you see it as you didn’t get more, or that you want to see the SR guy get less ? Why? Is it bragging rights?
I don’t understand this concept. I just find it petty.

In the mean time it degrades the hobby by feeding re-stampers money if they do re-stamp

Again just my .02 and my way of looking at it.

Take it for what you will , but use it as food for thought and genuinely ask yourself. Why do you care?

[Mcronk]

Originally Posted by Baron Von Zeppelin

I don't trust my memory about that.
Seems that has been covered in good detail on here, but can't remember if in a Roll Call thread or somewhere else.
Try to send a PM to TheBoss on here, he has handled a lot of that hardware and used to have all that stuff down patent.

I don't think he comes on here very much anymore.
Try PM and an email via PY server.
If all else fails I could light a fire and send him some smoke signals.

Thanks. I believe I have exchanged posts with him as well as Jim Mino before his passing. I don't think I asked the question about block castings though. I have not been on the roll call thread in a while but will visit that again.

[Mcronk]

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Or in the case of original vs restamp blocks individual preference.

I see both sides of this discussion. I would think two cars equal in all respects and one with "born with drivetrain" should bring more money. How much? Who knows. Maybe a little more?

As long as there is money to be made there will be those who will do whatever to make it. I think most of the cars listed in ads with "original drivetrain" are not. Most of these cars were raced on the streets or tracks and lost their original engines early in life.

My car is missing its original engine. However I am trying to do "the next best thing" and put together a correct block code/casting code/date code engine. It will never be the original but for all practical purposes just like the original. It is as close as it will ever get to the original. IF I ever sell it the buyer will determine whether or not it is equal to an original.

I have come across a block with correct block code and date code but casting code is not one used for a 4 bolt block. Could the factory have made a mistake? Could it be a restamp? I don't know but still trying to research a definitive answer.

[stevesbirds]

After my current registration was all set, then they required I pre pay to be eligible, all that just to view SOLD values.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Originally Posted by Mcronk

...I am not one to "talk trash" about someones car so I will try and make this as benign as possible. However I am sure some will figure this out very easily...

I wasn't able to figure this out easily and sorta put it on the back burner.
But was it a 1971 model car painted in a dark'ish color ?

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Originally Posted by stevesbirds

After my current registration was all set, then they required I pre pay to be eligible, all that just to view SOLD values.

Something really wrong about that case.
Might should just start over with another email address.
Don't select anything about being a bidder or getting a pass , etc ......

[RamAirBirds]

Mcronk & Baron,
For Reference.
My C118 "XW" Block Auto GTO has the FULL CAST IN #2506 number
The E278 "WU" Block (recently sold) BlackBird had the last digits ground and stamped in #2506
I was going to point out that you were correct in your comments but figured this would be a good way to do so.
RA

[Mcronk]

Originally Posted by stevesbirds

After my current registration was all set, then they required I pre pay to be eligible, all that just to view SOLD values.

Sounds like you are trying to register to bid at a auction. You are not in the area just to register as a Mecum member. You don't need any financial information to register for the website.

[muscle_collector]

Originally Posted by Baron Von Zeppelin

I don't trust my memory about that.
Seems that has been covered in good detail on here, but can't remember if in a Roll Call thread or somewhere else.
Try to send a PM to TheBoss on here, he has handled a lot of that hardware and used to have all that stuff down patent.

I don't think he comes on here very much anymore.
Try PM and an email via PY server.
If all else fails I could light a fire and send him some smoke signals.

boss (chris) and i talk frequently ill tell him you are trying to get ahold of him

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Thanks M_C
I ran into him a week or so ago when I joined Bring a Trailer website.
a Blue 72 TA was getting gang banged on there just because it had a block that was restamped by Ray Charles - claimed as original by seller.
mis-dated repop trim tag
no signs of factory AC left anywhere
just little stuff like that ....

I think Mcronk is going to try to contact Chris

[Mcronk]

Originally Posted by Baron Von Zeppelin

Thanks M_C
I ran into him a week or so ago when I joined Bring a Trailer website.
a Blue 72 TA was getting gang banged on there just because it had a block that was restamped by Ray Charles - claimed as original by seller.
mis-dated repop trim tag
no signs of factory AC left anywhere
just little stuff like that ....

I think Mcronk is going to try to contact Chris

Found a post from him around March 2022. The post had some good information on the date codes vs full stamp vs grind/stamp scenarios. Sent him a PM on this site. Thanks for the help.

[joegpho]

Well, I didn't mean to stir up a hornet nest regarding original blocks!
(Glad I'm a GP guy. Anyone have a line on a 69 WL Code 428 HO manual transmission block?)
I just want the truth (I can handle it!)
If a block is an SR block but is otherwise correct - fine. A restamp? Fine.
It is just with the amount these cars are going for, I just want full disclosure.
There might be a point that I spend over $100K on a car (doubtful) - but at that level you can bet I will do my research.

I'm grateful that my GP has its "born-with" block - and ditto for my father's 65 421 HO 4spd Catalina.