[bill ryder]

Not being nearly as versed on 65, I have a couple questions as what triggers what options. I am speaking of unmolested car, right off the showroom floor. No day 2 mods.

If you raised the hood and saw a notched fan, would that indicate a 3:90 rear end?
If yes, would that also indicate aluminum drums?
Would that also indicate, possibly, an M21 transmission, or can that be ordered either way: M20 or M21?

THANKS!!!!!
"Bill"!

[60sstuff]

Originally Posted by bill ryder

Not being nearly as versed on 65, I have a couple questions as what triggers what options. I am speaking of unmolested car, right off the showroom floor. No day 2 mods.

If you raised the hood and saw a notched fan, would that indicate a 3:90 rear end?
If yes, would that also indicate aluminum drums?
Would that also indicate, possibly, an M21 transmission, or can that be ordered either way: M20 or M21?

THANKS!!!!!
"Bill"!

Hi Bill,

On a 1965 Tempest Series car (GTO) in this case.
The large diameter HD notched fan indicates a high performance 3.90 rear.
This notched fan also came on all Tempest Series cars with air condition.
Above applications comes with or without Power Steering and the large (4 core) radiator.

[Cardo]

Notched fans came on A/C cars, so not necessarily. 3:90= M-21 As far as the drums, looking at the order sheet it appears to be a stand alone option, but the metallic brake linings look to be mandatory.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

In 64 & 65 you could get the 3.90 with M20 or M21
M21 was default for 3.90
M20 was special equipment and will show a different code on the BHC

The only difference between the W code M20 and the Spec Eqpt M20 was the speedo gear.
I only know of about three 65 3.90 cars documented that way.

Could get 3.90 with Auto , also.

The fan has been covered pretty well already.
So if you open the hoods on Day 1 cars , and saw the notched fan ,
but not a tall radiator (trough in lower support) and no metal fan shroud
You would be looking at a 3.90 car - or a factory mistake.

The notched blade fan is the larger fan normally only used on AC cars.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

The glossary terms in Cardo's chart show for 3.90
@ = Code 534 HD Fan = Big blade notched fan
$ = Code 591 Speedo Adapter - this is an error , it was only used on Automatics

3x2 brought Code 432 HD Radiator with it

Another error is showing 2 codes for M21
One of those codes is actually for the M20 Spec Eqpt with different speedo gear

Can't access my files for a while now.
But my WS M20 3.90 BHC is on this site.
And Seymores WS M21 3.90 actual Buildsheet is on this site.
Our cars have different transmission codes

Will try to find those documents on here and put them in this thread - if I can.
Tarheel Tempest car is also WS M20 3.90 , and I think one other member also.
All 3 named cars are from PMD Michigan Plant

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

I tangled the terms on the 4 speed terms I used.
We know the Code 77W was the standard M20 up to 3.55 gears

According to John V. - the Code 779 M20 with special speedo gear was the default with 3.90
And Code 778 was the Spec Eqpt M21 Close Ratio with 3.90

Majority of 65 3.90 cars were ordered with the M21
Seymore's car is #778 with M21
Mine is #779 with M20
Tarheels is #779 with M20

The powetrain charts that PHS sends out were done themselves
Some errors on the 65 chart they made.

None of the 3 cars listed above have the #591 Speedo Adapter.
All 3 have Code #534 HD Fan = $3.12 option
Actually they all 3 show #535 because all 3 also had Option 531 SoftRay ALL as well

The 4th car is a WS M20 3.55 for cross reference
All 4 are Black.

Seymore's 65 M21 3.90




Tarheel's 65 M20 3.90



My 65 M20 3.90



Random 65 M20 3.55

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Notice that Seymore's car also carries Code 592 for the Spec Eqpt Trans M21
592 = Special Order on his Buildsheet

534 = Special Blade Fan on his Buildsheet

[Stuart]

I don't think it will answer your questions specifically, but there's an accessories catalog on the Old Car Manual Project website that you might find useful. https://oldcarbrochures.org/United%2...iac/index.html

[Keith Seymore]

I see my work here is done...

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Sometimes I don't know what I would do without a copy of your 65 Buildsheet , Keith.
lol

All the M21 cars I have seen documents on have the 592 Spec Eqpt / Special Order code.
fwiw

Also worth noting that all 3 of the 3.90 cars shown , were Manual Steering.
So the fan quiz should have a definitive answer.
It was for 3.90

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

The 4th car shown - WS M20 3.55 - Did have Pwr Steering
But no special fan

All 4 are Black , and from PMD Michigan plant.
Apples to Apples

[bill ryder]

Sooo, here we go.

"Bill"!

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by bill ryder

Sooo, here we go.

"Bill"!

Bill - you may already know this but one can use the build sheet as a decoder.

For example, the "69" portion of option "692" refers to the box number. Within that box are additional descriptions, like
"1" = T Track
"2" = Special Order Axle
"3" = both of the above
"4" = Economy axle

etc

So 692 = special order axle, 694 = economy axle, or in some of the boxes the individual numbers add to create further combinations.

Astute observers can even use this technique to decode the punches on the billing history card.

On mine "Built less 504" means that the order specified the rally cluster (box 50 option 4) but the car was built without it for some unknown reason. It was also done with enough lead time to affect the printed document. Usually the changes occur late in the process and the adjustments are made in pencil on the billing history card.

K

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Keith ?? Liquid lunch today ? lol

692 = metallic brakes

703
=
701 = Posi
702 = Spec Ord Axle

71P = 3.90 ratio

They don't have a break down for box 69 - it must have been the only 69x option
or sumpn

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Originally Posted by bill ryder

Sooo, here we go.
"Bill"!

Obviously a very well executed forgery
Nobody orders wire wheel discs on a WS M21 3.90 Convertible !

Damn !
What were the colors on this GTO ? Iris ?

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Might have dreamed it
But seems like somebody posted a 65 BHC for a 71 S car = 4.33
Have not seen another - if I really saw that one.

Have seen some 66's with S code 4.33
Two XS cars , and One WS (convertible)

[bill ryder]

Colors are L, L, 214. Lots of teal. 21000 car not licensed since 1969.

"Bill"!

[bill ryder]

Originally Posted by Baron Von Zeppelin

Obviously a very well executed forgery
Nobody orders wire wheel discs on a WS M21 3.90 Convertible !

Damn !
What were the colors on this GTO ? Iris ?

That is a scary statement!!!

Trying to check all the boxes.

"Bill"!

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Oh Gosh
Love the Teal / Turquoise colors , with Teal interior too , sweeeeet .
Is it Code 5 Teal Top ?

65 had some great color combos - hard to pick a favorite.
Code L Dark probably my first choice on a 65 convertible.
d a m n

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

d a m n