[Greg Reid]

My '97 Dodge Ram just started doing something that I'm afraid may be small warning that something is about ready to crap out. I know there are MANY possiblities but I'm mostly throwing this out there just in case someone with the same vehicle has seen the same problem and fixed it.
You know how modern vehicles only require maybe one second cranking and no accelerator movement to start?
The last two weeks I've had to crank mine two or three seconds. Yesterday for four maybe five or six seconds to start.
I just discovered yesterday that I can press the accelerator while cranking and it'll start immediately. Kind of like we normally may have to do to cars made back in the '60s and '70s.
I'm thinking that means it's a fuel related problem and not electrical.
The truck runs just fine otherwise. No hesitation, skipping, etc. that I've noticed so I think the fuel pump is workng properly, filter is open, etc..

I'm wondering if there's some type of throttle positioning or fuel delivery device that gives it an "initial shot" on startup maybe? Anything like that?

[1quartlow]

http://www.dodgetrucks.org/forums/index.php
http://www.dodgeforum.com/forumid_105/tt.htm

Those are the places I go first when trying to troubleshoot problems with my truck. Lots of good info, just like here.

[Gary Logan]

I agree with 1Qt. Those are great sites. How many miles are on the truck? The fuel pumps have a limited life of around 100,000 miles and can start doing funny things when going south. I know that the initial sync pulse for the injectors comes from the cam position sensor located in the distributer but i am not sure how the TPS affects it.

To test the TPS, use a digital volt meter. With the ignition on, check the TPS voltage at the center terminal wire. At idle it should be > 200mv. At WOT it must be less than 4.8v. That is from the 1996 service manual but it should be the same.

[salem1912]

Greg sounds like the fuel pump is bleeding back, the only way to check would be to put a gauge on it and start it up it should have about 50psi. Shut off and it should only drop off to around 35-40psi.

[Greg Reid]

Thanks guys. That gives me some things to check and I'll go to the forums above.
I was originally going to post this question at www.allpar.com. Had good luck there before but it was filtered at work. This is one of the few forums I can get to from my job computer. I expect that I can find the answer without even posting the question. Just search the arvhives.

BTW, the truck has 205,000 mostly troublefree miles. No major repairs. Just the typical limited life components every two or three years over the last seven that I've owned it.

[Gary Logan]

205K without changing the pump? You are waaaayyyy overdue. Lucky too. Mine went out 85 miles from the nearest mechanic. We were parked at an unmanned ranger station in the mountains doing some hiking. No cell signal and four kids. Luckily the ranger came along and let us call AAA from inside the station. The ride in the roll-back with a 1500 Ram 4X4 on top, flying down a mountain was like a roller coaster.

[Greg Reid]

Yeah, I know the pump is generally changed about 100,000 or less but do you think the symptoms fit? It accelerates uphill fine, idle is great, etc....and I can't really say that it's never been changed. It had 80K on it when I bought it and it was well maintained.
Not saying I won't change it but I'd like to find the culprit when I go through it. I will checke the pressure as soon as I can get to it.

[Flatfish]

I had the same problem with my 96 Ram 1500. Had to crank engine for several seconds before it would start. Mechanic replaced fuel pump and problem solved.

[salem1912]

Greg not so much the pump is bad but the check valve (internal to the pump) allowing it to bleed back, it must prime the system every time you start the truck. At 200k I would put a new mopar pump in it.

[66goat_boy]

I have the same problem with my '97 Dakota. It takes 5-9 seconds to start up. I think it might be a clogged fuel pump. The problem with these trucks is that the fuel filter can only be bought at the dealer and you have to drop the tank or take off the bed to gain access
Try going to Moparts. They are great
http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/...&Board=Warlock

[pontiacpetey]

Just did the pump in my 97 ram, at 150,000 miles I was not too suprized.

[Greg Reid]

Originally Posted by salem1912

Greg not so much the pump is bad but the check valve (internal to the pump) allowing it to bleed back, it must prime the system every time you start the truck. At 200k I would put a new mopar pump in it.

I was thinking about this and I'm leaning towards the pump but I was wondering and did a test.
If the pressure is bleeding down, shouldn't I be able to turn the switch on for 10 seconds or so and wouldn't that re-establish the pressure?
I tried that a couple of times and I can't say it made any difference.
Maybe if I turn it on and off a few times since I think it only runs for a few seconds initially.

Also, I can run it for thirty minutes, turn it off and try to restart immediately and it still has the delay. How long does it take to lose the pressure?
Thanks guys for all the suggestions.

[salem1912]

Sounds like a bad check valve and a weak pump. Depending on how much drop you have, does it go to 0 psi? A weak pump could take 10-15 seconds to build pressure, your due for a pump. If you plan on doing it yourself of couse run the tank level as low as possible, remove the driveshaft( gives alot of room) disconnect the neck- two straps drop it about 6 inches and disconnect the hoses

["Me"]

Originally Posted by Greg Reid

Yeah, I know the pump is generally changed about 100,000 or less but do you think the symptoms fit? It accelerates uphill fine, idle is great, etc....and I can't really say that it's never been changed. It had 80K on it when I bought it and it was well maintained.
Not saying I won't change it but I'd like to find the culprit when I go through it. I will checke the pressure as soon as I can get to it.

Actually Dodge pumps last a lot longer than that. Our repair facility changes about 3 chevy PU pumps a week, and we have only changed three or four Dodge pumps in 15 years. We have a 96 Dodge shop truck with over 300,000 on the original pump. At 205k you could have pump/checkvalve issues but I would not get too excited. Our shop rat takes a few more turns to start but still runs every day.

Larry

[Greg Reid]

Yeah, I'm really not sweating it. I'll probably just buy a pump and keep it in storage for a while until I really have time to swap it out. The truck runs absolutely great and it's really starting in the same amount of turns that the '02 Ford does that I drive on my job. I'm just attuned to my truck enough that I know when something has changed and I'm used to it catching immediately, rather than two tries.

I know I said 4 or 5 seconds earlier but actually, that's a worst case scenario if I just keep turning it over 'til it starts and without any accelerator...
It'll start immediately if I give it a one second turn (where it used to start)...then do another one second turn. It'll start on the second one. That's why I first noticed the problem. I started having to do that twice rather than once.
It'll start the first time with a one second turn if I give it the accelerator when I turn it over.

[Greg Reid]

Originally Posted by salem1912

Sounds like a bad check valve and a weak pump. Depending on how much drop you have, does it go to 0 psi? A weak pump could take 10-15 seconds to build pressure, your due for a pump. If you plan on doing it yourself of couse run the tank level as low as possible, remove the driveshaft( gives alot of room) disconnect the neck- two straps drop it about 6 inches and disconnect the hoses

I haven't figured out how to check the pressure yet with my gauge. Some models have a schrader valve but mine apparently doesn't.
I think have to rig up a fuel pressure gauge somehow on mine. I really haven't had a chance to work on it yet. Probably be Tuesday or Wednesday before I get a chance to check it.

["Me"]

Try just turning the key on for a couple of seconds and see how many turns.

Larry

[Greg Reid]

I haven't really counted the turns. It seemed easier to count seconds.
I'll estimate that it normally takes two turns and now it's taking maybe eight or sometimes ten.
If I depress the accelerator as I turn it over, it takes two.
The most reasonable sounding culprit so far seems to be the pressure is dropping as has been pointed out before. The only thing that doesn't make sense is why the pressure wouldn't build back up if I just turned the ignition on for some number of seconds before trying to start. That doesn't seem to make a difference.
The Dodge Truck Forum linked to above is offering me some ideas as well.
I'll check the pressure as soon as I can figure out a way to rig my gauge up.

[se428bandit]

Does dodge have a relay to the fuel pump,my S-15 had a bad relay and it wouldn't start until the engine got oil pressure,i found this out after i scan it for a code.

[Greg Reid]

I don't know Russ. I've kinda put this on hold until I have time to do what I need to do to it.
I've found that the truck starts fine if I restart immediately after shutting it down OR I pump the accelerator, either while cranking the engine or giving the pedal a couple of shots before turning the key. All this kinda makes me lean towards the fuel pressure dropping while it's sitting.
Not sure about the oil pressure scenario. I'll have to think about that possibility.