[Engine-Ear]

Seeing the red '62 Cat going up for auction reminds of an unsettled debate: semigloss black wheels or BODY color wheels on standard-hubcap-equipped '62s (and probably the other years in this sub forum).

In my opinion, the semigloss black wheels with the button hubcaps look tough as hell on just about any DarkSider, but as it relates to RESTORATION, one thing that stands out as an unKNOWN is the production line use of semigloss black wheels vs. body-colored wheels.

I am confident that semigloss black wheels where used whenever full wheel discs were fit to the car. The two '62s (of the 25) that I have owned which had standard hubcaps also had body-colored wheels (one car was Caravan Gold the other Ensign Blue).

I am still researching the PMD's color selection (semigloss black vs. body color) vs. model vs. buyer election (special ordered, non-dealer "lot" car) ...and perhaps even vs. final assembly plant.

As always, your (yes YOUR!) feedback and input sought.

[real61ss]

I think the wheels on the red Cat are actually gloss black. I painted them but it was awhile ago so I don't recall if I mixed any flatner in the paint but I doubt if I did.

[Engine-Ear]

Originally Posted by real61ss

I think the wheels on the red Cat are actually gloss black. I painted them but it was awhile ago so I don't recall if I mixed any flatner in the paint but I doubt if I did.

Appreciate the reply.

I'm especially looking for documented (or known-original) standard-hubcap cars, what color the body is and what color the wheels are.

[carcrazy]

Matt,
Many years ago (late 60's) I purchased a 62 with the standard hubcaps. The car was belmar red and the wheels were black. Can't remember the level of gloss. Car was relatively low mileage and I'm pretty certain the owner (a farmer) did not paint them as he didn't do anything else to it.

[Engine-Ear]

Thanks, carcrazy - Credible anecdotes like yours are VERY welcome!

To add to the forensics of your post (and trying to fill in as many missing pieces of the puzzle I can), what part of the country did you buy the car? (I see that your bio shows you're in N. Car., but maybe you were in L.A. back then)

[johnta1]

Wouldn't the billing history card (from PHS?) show the wheel color?

[Engine-Ear]

To carcrazy's post, and from nearly 30 years of obsessing over '62s, it is my belief that on standard-hubcap-equipped cars:

1. Black-painted wheels WERE used on non-black cars.
1a. The wheels were painted "wheel-black" (with whatever %-gloss they were)
2. Variations existed between different final assembly plants (for example, red-oxide primer on Southgate-built cars vs black primer on Arlington-built cars)
3. Depending on the sidewalls of the tires ordered / available, could wheel color have been a variable? (For example, look at the model identification pics on the first few pages of the '62 Chassis Shop Manual)
4. The "the production line never stops" mentality - if a set of body-colored wheels wasn't on hand for an Ensign Blue Catalina that was ordered with standard hubcaps, well...

Yes, I overthink this stuff...you needn't remind me. I'm just trying to raise the bar for those interested in restoring their flat-sideglass DarkSider.

[Engine-Ear]

Originally Posted by johnta1

Wouldn't the billing history card (from PHS?) show the wheel color?

Good question, John. While I still have the VIN for one of the body-colored-wheel Cats I owned, I didn't get PHS for it...maybe if I have a good RediRad month I'll splurge (although I no longer have the car).

[real61ss]

Yes, the PHS documentation will show the wheel color . The third letter is the wheel color. I have the PHS doc's on my 61 Ventura and the color code is EEA. That Bristol Blue bottom, Bristol Blue top and black wheels. The color code A was for gloss black so I would say the wheels were gloss black. Somewhere, I'm still looking I had some information from Pontiac that showed what color wheels were used with what color bodies and they were not all black..The information that I am looking for pertained to 64 and 65 GTO' s but I think it would also apply to the big cars.

[Tim Younker]

My 62 Catalina was purchased in 2004 from the son of the original owner that had passed. It had 72,000 miles and was totally original except for one repaint in 1980. The wheels were body color (Cameo Ivory) with full hubcaps. Only took me 1 year to switch to 15" steelies, painted 60/40 gloss black. My car was built at Southgate and delivered to Salta Pontiac in Long Beach, CA. I love the look of black steel wheels. As a kid in the 60s, I remember my dad running his Chevys and Pontiacs with black steelies.

[Engine-Ear]

Hey that's excellent input, real61 and Tim Y!

real61, you mentioned that you got the car with 8s on it. Do you remember what the PHS / build sheet showed in terms of wheel selection ("CUST W/DISCS", "DLX W/DISCS", "ALUM WHLS DRUMS")? What about your '61?

Tim, if you look closely, is the paint in the clip slots?

Second question: Any evidence (scratches) of there having been clips at one time?

[real61ss]

Engine,
I don't recall what the 62 PHS said, that was several years ago and I gave the doc's to the buyer.
The 61 Ventura I still have and the doc's show EEA under the color column. I also contacted Jim Matteson and asked him about the wheel color and the type hub cap that came on the car. He confirmed that the original wheels were black and it had the small caps. I thought that kinda odd on a Ventura. It now has 8 lugs

[Stuart]

In all my years of fooling around with 1961 cars I've only had one single wheel that was anything other than black. As far as that goes I've rarely seen one that had small hubcaps from the factory; I know they were out there, but I think the vast majority were sold with the deluxe caps.

I bought a pretty nice set of 1961 poverty caps at a swap meet years ago, I don't know that I'll ever use them.

[Sirrotica]

Matt, my parents bought a 63 low mileage used Bonneville about 1966, It had the spinner style full wheel covers and the wheels were all black semi gloss. I know because when I borrowed their car to go cruisin in, the air cleaner and the hubcaps came off as soon as I got out of sight of the house.

Wouldn't be caught dead with full wheel covers on, and ya gotta love the sound of the AFB with no air cleaner on it...........

I forgot to put the air cleaner back on one time, and left it in the back seat on the floor. Dad (was a mechanic too) found it there and wanted to know what the air cleaner was doing in the back seat. I concocted some BS story, I can't even remember any more what I told him, sorry dad..................

[Engine-Ear]

Thanks for the posts.

As you said, Brad, the full-wheel-disc (be it custom or deluxe) cars should have black painted steelies.

[real61ss]

EngineEar,
Perhaps I can shed some light on your question about the color of the wheels, I just recieved the PHS doc's on my 63 Grand Prix and in this information there is sheet thathat has the color codes and under 1963 Wheel Colors it lists A-Regent Black, E-Yorktown Blue, U-Carib Aqua, Y-Cordovan, Z-Silverleaf Green.

There is a note that states "All cars with Deluxe or Custom wheel disc are equipped with black wheels.

Hope this helps

[carcrazy]

Originally Posted by Engine-Ear

Thanks, carcrazy - Credible anecdotes like yours are VERY welcome!

To add to the forensics of your post (and trying to fill in as many missing pieces of the puzzle I can), what part of the country did you buy the car? (I see that your bio shows you're in N. Car., but maybe you were in L.A. back then)

Car was purchased just outside of Erie, Pa. I was living in Youngstown, Ohio at the time.

[Jerry H.]

FWIW, I don't know if Chevy and Pontiac would have been the same or not, but this pertains to this time period. In 1963 my grandfather bought a new Chevy 4 door Impala. It was a white car and was on the dealer's lot with poverty caps and WHITE painted wheels. The reason I remember this is because he made the dealer include a set of full factory wheel covers. As soon as he got it home he pulled the wheel covers off and painted the wheels black because he couldn't stand that little white 'ring' around the inner rim of the tire.

[J GLASGO]

I have always painted wheels gloss black also

[Engine-Ear]

Thanks for the latest posts, guys.

Helpful stuff for sure!