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Old 05-20-2023, 02:15 PM
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Default First full runs on new engine

Finished up the roll bar last week so I drove the T/A out to the track last night to make a few passes. Whole new experience for me. Never driven a car where I needed a roll bar and 5 point harness and fire jacket. It was hot and humid. Don't know how you guys do this in the hot summer months. Anyway, I made 4 runs on a track not well prepped but did manage a 10.84 @ 124. Had traction issues on the other 3. I feel pretty good about it since virtually no tuning has been done. I know it is running on the rich side of things and I have not changed the timing from the initial setting of 32*. May be okay but I want to try up and down a little bit. Also need a different converter. I have a PTC 9 " that worked great behind the 403 Olds that was in the car but the new engine pushes right through it at 1800 rpm. Would like to launch at a higher rpm to put the engine in it's power band. If that makes sense. Anyway, lots of tuning yet to be done.

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69 Bird w/1970 400 block(409 cubes), #64 heads, hyd. roller, Q-jet by Jeff E., original interior, ps, pdb, th350, and 3.73 gears. Pump gas, street driven muscle. 3800 lbs. race weight. Best, 11.39 @118, my son's car.

79 T/A w/463, Scat crank, Eagle rods, Icon pistons, Lunati solid roller, 262/270, KRE 325 heads,Northwind intake, QF950 carb, full interior, ps, pdb, th350, and 3.73 gears. Pump gas, 3650 lbs. race weight. 10.72 @ 126 so far... no tuning yet.
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Old 05-20-2023, 02:56 PM
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NICE!

I'd say a higher timing would help? (36º ?)

I never had a problem with the jackets on a hot day. Of course didn't wear much under it.



The full suit though is a little different.
(and not much under them either)


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  #3  
Old 05-20-2023, 04:12 PM
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John, I found that 34-35* seemed to be the sweet spot for the 400 engines that I have built over the years but I remember seeing #s in the 32*range more common for the 455 and stroked 400s. Every combo is different so it will be interesting to see what this engine likes the most.

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69 Bird w/1970 400 block(409 cubes), #64 heads, hyd. roller, Q-jet by Jeff E., original interior, ps, pdb, th350, and 3.73 gears. Pump gas, street driven muscle. 3800 lbs. race weight. Best, 11.39 @118, my son's car.

79 T/A w/463, Scat crank, Eagle rods, Icon pistons, Lunati solid roller, 262/270, KRE 325 heads,Northwind intake, QF950 carb, full interior, ps, pdb, th350, and 3.73 gears. Pump gas, 3650 lbs. race weight. 10.72 @ 126 so far... no tuning yet.
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Old 05-20-2023, 06:42 PM
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Of course I ran alcohol, which can use the higher timing.
But, good start with no extra tuning yet.



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Old 05-21-2023, 05:24 AM
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Nice times. 10.84 @124 mph. Wife and I were at Gainesville track during Sick week. Nice track. Great people.

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Old 05-21-2023, 06:48 AM
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The specific gravity of the race fuel you happen to use will effect the ideal amount of timing also.

If your playing around with how much octane the motor actually needs to have the fastest burn possible without hammering the rods out of the motor then keep that in mind too.

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Old 05-21-2023, 09:31 AM
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Originally Posted by chuckies76ta View Post
Nice times. 10.84 @124 mph. Wife and I were at Gainesville track during Sick week. Nice track. Great people.
I appreciate that. I would liked to have gotten out to the track on the day you guys came through for Sick Week. I think that was on a Thursday and I couldn't get all my jobs done in time. Sorry to have missed an opportunity to meet you and see your car make some runs.

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69 Bird w/1970 400 block(409 cubes), #64 heads, hyd. roller, Q-jet by Jeff E., original interior, ps, pdb, th350, and 3.73 gears. Pump gas, street driven muscle. 3800 lbs. race weight. Best, 11.39 @118, my son's car.

79 T/A w/463, Scat crank, Eagle rods, Icon pistons, Lunati solid roller, 262/270, KRE 325 heads,Northwind intake, QF950 carb, full interior, ps, pdb, th350, and 3.73 gears. Pump gas, 3650 lbs. race weight. 10.72 @ 126 so far... no tuning yet.
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Old 05-21-2023, 09:35 AM
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Originally Posted by steve25 View Post
The specific gravity of the race fuel you happen to use will effect the ideal amount of timing also.

If your playing around with how much octane the motor actually needs to have the fastest burn possible without hammering the rods out of the motor then keep that in mind too.
Steve, this engine runs great on 93. Aluminum heads and 10.5 compression. Built this engine to run on pump gas both for the cost factor and the desire to drive it on the street.

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69 Bird w/1970 400 block(409 cubes), #64 heads, hyd. roller, Q-jet by Jeff E., original interior, ps, pdb, th350, and 3.73 gears. Pump gas, street driven muscle. 3800 lbs. race weight. Best, 11.39 @118, my son's car.

79 T/A w/463, Scat crank, Eagle rods, Icon pistons, Lunati solid roller, 262/270, KRE 325 heads,Northwind intake, QF950 carb, full interior, ps, pdb, th350, and 3.73 gears. Pump gas, 3650 lbs. race weight. 10.72 @ 126 so far... no tuning yet.
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Old 05-21-2023, 09:55 AM
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I appreciate that. I would liked to have gotten out to the track on the day you guys came through for Sick Week. I think that was on a Thursday and I couldn't get all my jobs done in time. Sorry to have missed an opportunity to meet you and see your car make some runs.

Didn't bring any cars. Just took the trip to watch our friend Richard Guido run his 65 GTO. Oh, and the wife wanted a vacation. and we both would rather be around muscles cars than a beach full of sand.!! We really enjoyed ourselves.

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68 Firebird. IA2 block, 505 cu in, E-head, Solid roller 3650 weight. Reid TH400 4:11 gear. 29" slick.
Best so far 10.12@133 mph. 1.43 60 ft.
76 Trans am, TKX .81 o/d, 3.73 Moser rearend,
468 with KRE D-ports, Doug headers, 3" Exh.
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Old 05-21-2023, 01:34 PM
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Glad to know the trip was enjoyable and I wish I could have seen the 65 GTO make some runs. That is an impressive effort for him to drive all that distance and then make a bunch of passes at 5 different tracks.

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69 Bird w/1970 400 block(409 cubes), #64 heads, hyd. roller, Q-jet by Jeff E., original interior, ps, pdb, th350, and 3.73 gears. Pump gas, street driven muscle. 3800 lbs. race weight. Best, 11.39 @118, my son's car.

79 T/A w/463, Scat crank, Eagle rods, Icon pistons, Lunati solid roller, 262/270, KRE 325 heads,Northwind intake, QF950 carb, full interior, ps, pdb, th350, and 3.73 gears. Pump gas, 3650 lbs. race weight. 10.72 @ 126 so far... no tuning yet.
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Old 05-22-2023, 10:50 AM
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If your using the hei as a trigger I've seen almost 3 degrees retard at high rpm.If so 32 would be like 29,mine on chassis dyno made 50 hp going from 34 to 38 inwhich would retard it back to 34 at high rpm.

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Old 05-22-2023, 10:51 AM
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My motor is similar to yours except I have 500 ci and 11.2:1 static CR. I use a converter that flashes to 5000 rpm and slips 6.8% across the line. What was your 60'?

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1967 Firechicken, 499", Edl heads, 262/266@0.050" duration and 0.627"/0.643 lift SR cam, 3.90 gear, 28" tire, 3550#. 10.01@134.3 mph with a 1.45 60'. Still WAY under the rollbar rule.
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Old 05-22-2023, 10:52 AM
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I'm lucky to have a dyno close to my house,I'm just north of you in Lake city

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Old 05-22-2023, 11:36 AM
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Very nice first outing. I have added this run to the Pontiac Pump Gas list.

Please let me know if I got any of your information wrong.

http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/pont_gas.htm

Stan

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Old 05-22-2023, 12:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckies76ta View Post
Didn't bring any cars. Just took the trip to watch our friend Richard Guido run his 65 GTO. Oh, and the wife wanted a vacation. and we both would rather be around muscles cars than a beach full of sand.!! We really enjoyed ourselves.
You are one lucky man there sir!

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Old 05-22-2023, 06:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joes455 View Post
If your using the hei as a trigger I've seen almost 3 degrees retard at high rpm.If so 32 would be like 29,mine on chassis dyno made 50 hp going from 34 to 38 inwhich would retard it back to 34 at high rpm.
Joe, my son and I use to see you at Gainesville Raceway on occasion. I think that was before I got the Trans Am. Curtis has the white 69 Bird. Anyway, I do have an HEI distributor and I will definitely try more advance and see what might be gained. We do have 2 chassis dynos in Gainesville and my plan is to set up a dyno session in the fall.

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69 Bird w/1970 400 block(409 cubes), #64 heads, hyd. roller, Q-jet by Jeff E., original interior, ps, pdb, th350, and 3.73 gears. Pump gas, street driven muscle. 3800 lbs. race weight. Best, 11.39 @118, my son's car.

79 T/A w/463, Scat crank, Eagle rods, Icon pistons, Lunati solid roller, 262/270, KRE 325 heads,Northwind intake, QF950 carb, full interior, ps, pdb, th350, and 3.73 gears. Pump gas, 3650 lbs. race weight. 10.72 @ 126 so far... no tuning yet.
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Old 05-22-2023, 06:54 PM
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Originally Posted by AG View Post
My motor is similar to yours except I have 500 ci and 11.2:1 static CR. I use a converter that flashes to 5000 rpm and slips 6.8% across the line. What was your 60'?
My 60' on the 10.84 pass was 1.60. I did take the car to the track one time before the roll bar went in and I made a few 1/8 mile passes hoping not to get kicked off the track. Best 1/8 mile was 6.74 with a 60' of 1.52

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69 Bird w/1970 400 block(409 cubes), #64 heads, hyd. roller, Q-jet by Jeff E., original interior, ps, pdb, th350, and 3.73 gears. Pump gas, street driven muscle. 3800 lbs. race weight. Best, 11.39 @118, my son's car.

79 T/A w/463, Scat crank, Eagle rods, Icon pistons, Lunati solid roller, 262/270, KRE 325 heads,Northwind intake, QF950 carb, full interior, ps, pdb, th350, and 3.73 gears. Pump gas, 3650 lbs. race weight. 10.72 @ 126 so far... no tuning yet.
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Old 05-22-2023, 07:40 PM
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Do you know what RPM your converter stalls to? My car goes 1.45 for a 60' time.

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1967 Firechicken, 499", Edl heads, 262/266@0.050" duration and 0.627"/0.643 lift SR cam, 3.90 gear, 28" tire, 3550#. 10.01@134.3 mph with a 1.45 60'. Still WAY under the rollbar rule.
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Old 05-22-2023, 08:22 PM
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I have a 9" PTC converter with 3000 stall. It worked great behind the 403 but not so great behind the 463. I can barely hold 2000 rpm (foot brake) at the launch. I wanted another converter but the budget said not right now. Maybe in the fall. I have to believe it will make a difference.

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69 Bird w/1970 400 block(409 cubes), #64 heads, hyd. roller, Q-jet by Jeff E., original interior, ps, pdb, th350, and 3.73 gears. Pump gas, street driven muscle. 3800 lbs. race weight. Best, 11.39 @118, my son's car.

79 T/A w/463, Scat crank, Eagle rods, Icon pistons, Lunati solid roller, 262/270, KRE 325 heads,Northwind intake, QF950 carb, full interior, ps, pdb, th350, and 3.73 gears. Pump gas, 3650 lbs. race weight. 10.72 @ 126 so far... no tuning yet.
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Old 05-23-2023, 10:25 AM
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You will need a higher stall to put the motor closer to peak torque at launch with that cam.

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1967 Firechicken, 499", Edl heads, 262/266@0.050" duration and 0.627"/0.643 lift SR cam, 3.90 gear, 28" tire, 3550#. 10.01@134.3 mph with a 1.45 60'. Still WAY under the rollbar rule.
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