[gtorich]

Are there some marking on a stock dist that i should be using while trying to drop it in..................reason i ask is im having trouble getting my dist to drop in properly....................i had my motor re-ringed so im gonna have to prime the motor before starting..............but i cant the dist to drop in by hand with the motor out..............no way im gonna get that in laying on top of a fender.

So far the only way i have gotten the dist to drop in all the way was by turning the motor over by hand..................i did buy a new oil pump shaft from nitemare, Darrin says he makes them so there a tight fit, but i should be able to get in to drop.....................so any tips would help here.

I tried just moving the shaft with a screwdriver, doesnt seem to matter no matter where i move it, its not falling in.

Rich

[Schurkey]

Get it on the correct tooth of the cam gear, crank the engine, it should drop under it's own weight. Go back to ~10 degrees advanced from TDC Compression of #1, static-time the engine before start-up. Final-time the engine using a timing light after it's running.

There's no "need" to prime the oil system. GM built these engines without priming them before first startup. Guys "prime" engines because of superstition more than actual utility. Don't get me started on the guys who want to make a career out of "priming", where they prime, turn the crank, prime, turn the crank...until the oil squirts over the fenders.

[gtorich]

Thanks Schurkey, on the go back to 10 degrees advance from tdc...................is that the same as starting at 10-12 btdc.....................problem is i cant get the dist to drop anywhere unless i turn the motor over by hand................really getting confused here..............do i just hold the dist and rotor pointing at # 1 cyl.............and turn the motor over by hand, and that should line up everything right........................i wish i never started this whole lets fix the motor deal.

Rich

[Schurkey]

IF (big IF) the distributor is aligned to the correct tooth on the cam gear, you crank the engine. The rotor/mainshaft turns with the camshaft, when the bottom of the distributor aligns with the oil pump shaft, the distributor drops into place.

Then get the crankshaft back to ~10 degrees advanced from TDC Compression, and static-time the distributor. At that point the engine should run.

[steve25]

Due to the Helical cut gears on the distributor and the cam you will never get the dizzy to just drop in without the rotor moving some away from where you want it.

You need to practice dropping it in with the rotor set to be as close as possible to where you actually need it to be.

After that Is accomplished it will not drop down all the way until the oil pump drive rod is engaged.

To do that you simply crank the motor over and after 2 full revolutions of the crank it will be seated and you can drop the hold down clamp on it with just finger tight pressure on the bolt, or atleast enough to keep the dizzy from spinning too easy.


Next if you have the plugs in remove them and crank the motor over until your oil dummy light goes out.

If you have a HEI be sure to unhook the power feed cable to it.
A HEI should not be powered up and kicking out spark with no plugs hooked up and grounded.

[gtorich]

Thanks Steve............well i got plenty of time to pratice................Steve i get what your saying, now say you got the whole motor ready to go, now, just for discussion weather or not your gonna prime the motor...............wouldn't i be in the same boat as i am now...............i would have to take out the plugs, then turn the motor over twice with the belts installed..............................maybe a good question would be, if you did prime the motor....................how long do you have to get this thing strated before the oil drains out of the lifters.

[gtorich]

Ok, here is where im at today............i did give it the old college try today, i thought 3 1/2 hours to drop in a dist was a little much...........you would think with a couple hundred tries i would luck out once and it drops in by hand............the only thing different now is the new oil pump shaft from nitemare...........as long as the dist drops in...................im ok with however it falls in.

So i got it to tdc on comp stroke, turned motor over by hand, fell in as usual doing it this way.................so this is where stuff sits today, this lines up with the cap mark i made before i pulled it out...........just a little off but i assume when i put it at 12-14 before tdc should be about right................Dave Hillard set this up for me, so im not sure where he had it.

I guess where i get confused is statements the rotor should point at the actual # 1 spark plug hole...............which would be about 4-5 o"clock if looking at it from the front.................is there a reason for this...............does it make the wires easier to route.............the car ran for 12 yrs the way its sitting now.............think i have enough room to move it some without the cannister hitting anything.........So if i have this totally wrong, let me know............

Rich

[lust4speed]

Originally Posted by gtorich

...I guess where i get confused is statements the rotor should point at the actual # 1 spark plug hole...Rich

Only if you are working on a Chevy. Pontiac points #1 about the steering wheel.

[gtorich]

Originally Posted by lust4speed

Only if you are working on a Chevy. Pontiac points #1 about the steering wheel.

Thanks Mick, i was doing some searching around today and seen a post of your saying this........

Now on that post you talk about bumping the the timing to 12-14 btdc, so in my pic i would have to turn it about one complete turn to have it at the 12-14 btdc.

I know you said there is only two ways for the dist gears to line up...........but i turned that oil pump shaft around god knows how many times and it never dropped in.................on the internet, they seem to get it to drop on the 2nd or 3 rd try..............im gonna mess around with it some more tomorrow...............so to say i got it in.............lol

But otherwise from the pics i sent in.....................look good to go.

Rich

[Kenth]

Follow this:

Distributor install.
1. First set timing mark on damper on 0 or TDC with #1 in firing position (valves closed).
2. Adjust if needed the oilpump driveshaft.
3. Hold the distributor with vacuum advance AND rotor pointing 90° of engine lenght to drivers side fender.
4. With distributor seated rotor will point at drivers seat and #1 ignition cable terminal in cap.
5. Install the rest of cables i firing order (CC).
6. Turn the distributor half inch or so CW, start engine and set initial timing with a timing lamp.
7. Jobs done!

HTH

[Half-Inch Stud]

We all have that long screwdriver to turn the pump shaft ever so precisely. Dizzy-drops are super-easy most decades, then seem like a bar-puzzle some seasons.

I had a dizzy grab the oil pump shaft and it dropped the shaft off-of the oil pump. My magnet-stick retrieve made it worse awhile. THAT was a big deal.

[gtorich]

Originally Posted by Kenth

Follow this:

Distributor install.
1. First set timing mark on damper on 0 or TDC with #1 in firing position (valves closed).
2. Adjust if needed the oilpump driveshaft.
3. Hold the distributor with vacuum advance AND rotor pointing 90° of engine lenght to drivers side fender.
4. With distributor seated rotor will point at drivers seat and #1 ignition cable terminal in cap.
5. Install the rest of cables i firing order (CC).
6. Turn the distributor half inch or so CW, start engine and set initial timing with a timing lamp.
7. Jobs done!

HTH

Kenth...........thats what i have been doing all along..............i moved the oil pump driveshaft every direction posible..............the only way the dist goes in is if i turn the crank by hand then it will go it................ok, now the dist is in, i will pull it out , i dont move anything and i still cant get it to go in.............then i sit and start the whole deal over again...............my reason for concern is priming the motor up, and then trying to do all this with everything hooked up.............i dont think thats gonna happen.................As it sits now, my only options are trying laying on a fender and hope i can get the dist in..................which i know i cant............or just fire up the car and hope for the best...........the cam is already been broken 20 thou miles ago...............only had a re-ring..............but new roller lifters and bearings.

[gtorich]

Just to clarity to anyone watching this.................i can put the dist anywhere i want, i can turn the crank the dist falls in, but it never is on O on the balancer, i have to turn the crank to get it to tdc..................ifs its pointing 180 out, i just lift the dist up, move the crank some...............then just turn it over twice and it drops where my pics show, right where i have the mark on my cap.................so im assuming something is not right................i can have it at tdc forever, turn the rotor everywhich way, turn the oil pump shaft a little here or there..............it will not drop in......................guess i"l throw another few hours at it today....................

[gtorich]

Ok, i finally got it to drop in 3-4 times in a row by hand.................seems there is a little play with the oil pump drive shaft..............so what i did was get it close to where it should be, then i put some pressure on the dist pulling it back towards the pass side, wiggle it some, and it drops in.......................so im wondering is there supposed to be some play in the shaft.....................according to the instructions from nitemare, you must have a minimum of .040 clearance between the sleeve and rear counter weight while rotating the crank. Making minor adjustments by moving the oil pump housing away from the crank and pulling the pump against the oil pump bolts, is all that is usually required...........i did check all this and i was good.................so hopefully i have this nipped in the bud.................unless that shaft is supposed to be tight.

Once again , thanks for all the help..............i appreciate it very much

Rich

[tjs72lemans]

Why cause more grief and hard work for yourself. Put the distributor in while motor is out and forget about priming the motor before firing up. At least you know you'll have the dizzy in.

[rohrt]

I'm dealing with same thing. I can't get my distributor to seat. Turn the oil pump shaft a little try again. Turn the oil pump shaft a little try again. It engages on the cam gear just fine. I try a tooth above and a tooth below. I have never had this much issue doing this before. I get how the cam gear turns the distributor and I'm compensating for that, it just wont mesh with the oil pump shaft. 3+ hours making small adjustments can't get it to go. The composite gear and the distributor are the same. Different block and new factory hardened oil pump shaft. I was using the shaft from nightmare previously.

One thing I noticed comparing a composite gear on a HEI I have to the one on my small body HEI I'm using, therer is small bevel on the HEI one that I don't have.

I have never tried cranking the engine before to see if it would drop. I'm a bit leary to try that, but I did try advancing and retarding the motors 10deg in both directions to see if that would help.

[Sirrotica]

FWIW, I can pull a distributor out, never turn the engine, try to drop it right back in the same spot, and it will not go into the pump driveshaft. There is a reason, the oil drains back into the pan and moves the pump gears, and turns the driveshaft. It's the nature of the beast, the distributor doesn't have to be seated all the way down. You only have a few degrees where everything will fall together first time.

I just crank the engine a few bumps with the starter, and it drops by itself, No pushing on it, trying to get it into the shaft, no turning the shaft with a long screwdriver. You guys make this a ton harder than it is. I can drop the distributor in any engine in less than 5 minutes. I've put in hundreds of distributors, I bet not 1% of the distributors I've installed have dropped in all the way in the last 50 years. Quit trying to make it seat the first time, you're wasting a ton of time.

I found this video of this guy stabbing in a distributor in a turbo 301 Firebird, he lucked out and dropped it all the way in twice (I never get it 1 in 100 times). He does explain though how he drops them in, marks the distributor body so he knows where the rotor should be pointing because he's breaking in a flat tappet cam and wants it to start and run immediately. You can watch the whole video, but the real distributor information begins at 12:00 minutes. Hopefully he explains with pictures what I'm trying to convey here. You'll also notice that he's doing it in the car, having the hood off because he just dropped in this engine, but once you quit trying to seat it all the way on the first stab, and turn the engine so the slot matches the tang in the distributor it's pretty simple, and not at all time consuming. Three or four hours is just crazy to set a distributor in an engine.

Once it drops in just turn the engine over until the marks line up again, install the hold down, and it's ready to fire. One other thing is he tells you to advance the distributor a slight bit, not drop it right on #1 terminal, because most engines need about 10 degrees to fire up and run, they run pretty sick at 0 degrees.

Let me know if this clears up the mystery.

Link:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6QaGml2R6hA

[Dragncar]

In HROP Auto Shop in High School we had a 302 Ford on a run stand. We used to compete with a stop watch who could remove the distributor, bring it up on #1 and drop it back in and fire it up.
This is auto 101 stuff. If you can not do this you might not want to mess around with engines.

[Schurkey]

Originally Posted by Sirrotica

I just crank the engine a few bumps with the starter, and it drops by itself, No pushing on it, trying to get it into the shaft, no turning the shaft with a long screwdriver. You guys make this a ton harder than it is. I can drop the distributor in any engine in less than 5 minutes. I've put in hundreds of distributors, I bet not 1% of the distributors I've installed have dropped in all the way in the last 50 years. Quit trying to make it seat the first time, you're wasting a ton of time.

THANK YOU.

[Sirrotica]

Originally Posted by Schurkey

THANK YOU.