[midyear]

I just got the PHS on a 64 and have never had a Baltimore 64 before. while most of the PHS matches, the car has options that are not checked on the PHS like ps, pb, and AC. AC is noted at the bottom of the manifest, as is GTO yet it is not noted in any of the appropriate boxs (like 382). any enlightenment is appreciated, Thanks!

[bigpop]

I hear John V. walking to his keyboard as I type this. lol You are in good hands.

He is an ace! Larry B.

[John V.]

I have written a decode article for the '64 KC & Balt cars and submitted it to POCI for publishing in Smoke Signals. Don Keefe thought he might fit it in but months have gone by, I'm gonna check to see if he still has plans for it and then perhaps see if I can get it published somewhere else (like maybe here at the PY Forum?).

Anyway, historically, the decoding of these documents has left a lot to be desired. The document is a Chevy Form (KC & Balt were Chevy controlled Plants) and has to be translated to Pontiac Sales Codes. Apparently PHS never had a decoder.

Here is how yours decodes:

I'll start with the bottom of the form first. Here you see an imprint of the Factory produced Ident-O-Plate that was placed in the Warranty Booklet and shipped with the car.

Yours is not very clear so I'll do my best and explain what the nos. mean.

1st line
428965 This was the Motor Unit No. stamped on the front of the Block of the original engine installed in the car. If the original engine is still in the car, you should be able to read the MUN, my "interpretation" of what it reads on the Ident-O-Plate imprint should be very close.

79J This is the Engine Code also stamped on the front of the Block

2237 Identifies the car as a 22 Series Lemans, Body Style 37 2 dr. Hardtop Coupe

LLA Identifies the exterior color and wheel color, LL means it was originally Marimba Red (lower & upper body color) and Regent Black wheel color.

214 Identifies the Black Bucket Seat Interior Trim (no I can't read it, but the TRIM Code E on the Shipping Order identifies the Black color.

BA 3637 Identifies the Body No., not clear in the imprint but the No. should match the Body No. on the Body Data Plate mounted on the firewall.

2nd line
824B24349 The VIN

D29 This is the Broadcast Date code, usually matches the Date shown on the Shipping Order, could show a day later on occasion.

K237 I made up the numeric portion, can't read it. This is the Assembly Date on the Auto Trans, should match the code stamped on the original Trans Nameplate. On the nameplate it will read 64K237 (64 for the Model Year) but Balt typically omitted the 64 when coding the Ident-O-Plate.

The last "code" is a Pontiac Indian Head symbol

The Ident-O-Plate (later called the Protect-O-Plate or P-O-P) was used to control warranty expense and fraud.

Next I will decode the numeric boxes. As you recognized, there is no code 382 coded. That is because Chevy did NOT use the Pontiac Sales codes, the Pontiac Sales Codes were translated to a Chevy format to fit on the Chevy Form which has fewer numeric boxes than Pontiac used on its own Manifest Form.

Here is how they translate on your record.

308 - Water cooled 2 spd Auto Trans. Column Shift unless Console was also ordered.
31D - 4 bbl 389 Engine (GTO Option Only)
321 - Safe-T-Track Locking Differential option
33 - Blank, so the car was built with the standard axle ratio for the combination. In your case, the 3.08 as used with A/C GTOs. This is also confirmed by the Box labeled "RR. AXLE CODE", showing 3D which was the Manifest code for the 3.08 axle with Locking Differential and Standard Brakes.
343 - Combination code for the Power Steering and Power Brakes options.
350/366 - Whitewall Tire Override option, no cost substitution for the Red Lines (Red Lines coded 350/367).
431 - Pontiac Sales Code 471 Back-up Lamps option.
44C - Pontiac Sales Code 392 Deluxe AM Pushbutton Radio with front fender mounted Manual Antenna.
452 - Pontiac Sales Code 421 Windshield Washers w/ Dual Speed Wipers.
462 - Pontiac Sales Code 531 Tinted Glass, All Windows.
482 - Pontiac Sales Code 521 Custom Wheel Discs (spinner type).
514 - Pontiac Sales Code 624 Custom Front Pair Seat Belts w/ Retractors.
521 - Pontiac Sales Code 581 Custom Air Conditioning
61B - Unknown but possibly the Pontiac Sales Code 602 Door Mounted Outside LH Mirror, Manual Control. I'd be interested in knowing if your car is equipped with this mirror. Fairly common code on KC & Balt docs.
62A - Pontiac Sales Code 601 Floor Console, which means the trans shifter is on the floor.

I could also decode all of the alpha codes in the boxes in the lower portion of the document. Suffice to say, your car has all standard components for an A/C GTO with Auto Trans. Example, the Gen is code B, p/n 1100627, 55A Alternator. FZ Tire code confirms the 7.50x14 Whitewall Tires. ST are the front springs used with the Auto Trans GTO with A/C. SK was the specific trans code for the Auto Trans with 389 Engine.

Unless PHS has improved their decoding, they probably identified Code 452 as being the Tach. It was not, your car was not built with the Tach option.

They would also tell you Code 462 was for the Deluxe Wheel Covers, but your car was built with the Custom spinner type. But since your form shows the Code 521, they might ALSO indicate it got the Custom Wheel Discs. Of course, only one of these options could be offered, they were mutually exclusive, and as I have noted, 521 actually codes the A/C on a KC and Balt form.

Regrettably, because of improper decoding, more than a few KC & Balt GTOs have been incorrectly restored to match what Owners have been told "should" have been on the car.

I have a lot of confidence in most of my decodes, but if your car is unrestored and very original, I would welcome the opportunity to learn more about how your car seems to have been equipped, especially if it contradicts any of the above decodes.

[Keith Seymore]

Thanks, John.

I couldn't help but notice code 308 - Water cooled 2 spd Auto Trans.

Water cooled? Was the 2 spd auto actually water cooled? I had not heard this before (and obviously I am not familiar with the automatics in use in '64).

K

[johnta1]

I believe the 'water cooled' refers to the tranny lines going to the radiator. (water )

Some of the powerglides were air-cooled, hence no cooler lines.

[johnta1]

John, Smoke Signals would be crazy not to publish your work.

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by johnta1

I believe the 'water cooled' refers to the tranny lines going to the radiator. (water )

Some of the powerglides were air-cooled, hence no cooler lines.

LOL!

Given the context that some were air cooled, that certainly makes sense.

K

[3 Deuce 64]

Originally Posted by Keith Seymore

Thanks, John.

I couldn't help but notice code 308 - Water cooled 2 spd Auto Trans.

Water cooled? Was the 2 spd auto actually water cooled? I had not heard this before (and obviously I am not familiar with the automatics in use in '64).

K

there was an air cooled no lines and the "water cooled" which was the standard auto most of us are used to with trany lines running to a cooler in the bottom of the radiator.I actually have an air cool trany here.they were used in the 6 cylinder cars.

[midyear]

John,

Thanks! that is a much better decode then what I got from PHS, the car is very original and most of your decode matches. I will check on the mirror and a few of the small options when I go over the car better. I bought it along with a few others over the weekend and mainly waited for the phs to come bvack to see how correct the cars were I bought. You were dead on on the hubcaps and tach!!

Thanks

Dennis

[John V.]

Dennis, you're welcome. Keep me posted on the Mirror.

Keith, I thought "water cooled" was universal for describing a trans that makes use of an oil cooler in the Radiator! Heck, my Safari has a water cooled 4L60E (you know, the one that drove me nuts about a year and a half ago, knock on wood, no problems since I fixed it).

Code 301 was the '64 KC & Balt code for the air cooled 6 cyl Auto Trans.

Okay, so not water cooled in the sense the engine block is water cooled, but I think you get the idea.

There is an additional wrinkle for the 6 cyl Auto Trans in '64.

There was a choice of it being the Buick Super Turbine or the Chevy Powerglide.

If the Powerglide was installed, the Assembly Plant was to stamp a secondary trans code on the Engine Block to identify the installation. I do not know if one was more common than the other. I've speculated that the Powerglide might have been more commonly installed at the Chevy controlled KC & Balt Plants but I'm just guessing.

It was important to know the difference when the trans required major servicing, presumably that is why the Assembly Plant was to add the secondary trans code.

Just a bit of trivia, not real useful in the GTO hobby, but fun to know. So next time somebody says Pontiac didn't use the Powerglide, you can be a wiseguy like me, and say that actually they sometimes did.

[midyear]

John,

Got the car home, you were pretty much right on the money on it. Engine is the original one, and It does have holes for a door mounted mirror, only other thing I found on the car that is not listed by you is a real out trunk light, was there a code for that??

Dennis

[Tom Vaught]

Reel Trunk Light on a 64 GTO, Oh Boy, Here we go again, JOHN. (:>))))

Tom Vaught

[bigpop]

Before stating,I say Tom and John are the 64 aces.Any errors will/should be corrected by them,if there are errors in the following. The 64's show a luggage lamp option,both factory and dealer installed.Factory-Sales Code 481-U.P.C.-U25 and Dealer Option #
984142. This is from Eric's book,not my personal knowledge.I know more about 65's.However,interestingly,the price listed for factory,is.05 higher than the accessory dealer installed $3.55-$3.50. I know the 65 option is not the reel out in the accessories brochure,and mounted in a different area,and it is small,relative to the reel out.Is yours mounted in the center,toward the front,as you look into the trunk?

The 65 L.L.option,in the Accessories Brochure,is mounted to the left,as you look into the trunk,shining back into that area.If the deck lid is open,think NW. lol I know there are two reel out trunk lights used on Pontiacs,the one for the engine compartment,has a
glass lens,that is tall and half red(sorta cone shaped,but flat on top),the other a clear shrter,flatter clear lens.I think these began in early 60's Big Cars(Bonneville,GP,etc.).I have seen early GTO's with both kinds,but,they may not be "correct". In 65,they both
callled LUGGAGE AND UTILITY LAMP,but are listed for B,GP,C,SC.This is the flat,clear lens one I mention above,Code 481,sedans and coups only. The red,cone shaped one,is listed for the engine compartment,and includes Safari to the above cars,Code 404.No mention of Tempest,Lemans on either.Both are F.D.(factory,dealer). Remember,this is for 65,I do not have a 64 Accessories Brochure.But,IMHO,I do not think it would be different.Who knows? I need to get to hear about the 64 brochure.John V.or Tom,you guys have one??

I think both options look great on a GTO!! Larry B.

[Tom Vaught]

Larry, My car had one of the lights for several years. I was told about the light, when in college, by a friend who also had a 64 GTO. We went to a Junk Yard and found the Flat Reel Light mounted in a 65-66 Catalina or Bonneville. One yard had 5 "Big cars and 3 were 421 cars at the time. I wish now I had stripped out every one of the cars I saw in the yards.

Back to the subject, the 64 GTO trunk had the exact large hole you need to mount the light in the trunk lid as well as the correct spacing for the three mounting clips. Obviously the engineering was done on the cars to allow the light to be mounted. John V and I have discussed this in length.

My car came with the small light wiring harness that fed up to the trunk lid. No light was installed when I received the car, just the wiring harness.

Lots of enthusiasts see the "Flat" reel lights mounted in the 64 GTO trunks at shows and immediately head for the swap meet to buy the "Big Car" light as it is a great safety item if you need to change a tire at night on the side of the road.

1) I believe that Pontiac, at one time, designed the "reel" light into the 64 GTO trunk lid.

2) I do not think it made it into production, as an option on the 64 GTOs, as the "Big Car" demand for the light was probably very high as I personally have seen many, many of the lights over the years.

3) The Vacuum Gage Housing with the 90 degree tach installed is another example of a common part, the tach, used in a couple of 64 GTOs but with the "Cool" effect. Not stock but "cool" installation.

Ok so the "Reel Light" probably did not come down the line on a 64 GTO BUT GTO Owners have always tried to make their cars better so adding a component that allowed more safety for the passengers can usually be overlooked.

I swapped my 64 Lower Control Arms for 1968+ parts as the factory had increased the shock hole by then and fixed any design issues. The 68+ larger shock hole allowed the larger, much better, performance shocks to be used in the 64 GTO. Stock? No! Pontiac part? Yes!

We could talk about disc brakes, fast ratio steering, bigger sway bars and sway bars on the rear, etc another time. The deal was make the car safer and still be fast.

I had a 64 GTO brochure and never saw the reel light as an option on the GTO.

Tom Vaught

[John V.]

Larry & Tom beat me to the punch.

There is no evidence that the reel out "luggage & utility lamp" was offered as a factory option in the '64 or '65 Tempest.

As Tom mentions, the hole punching in the Tempest deck lid makes it apparent that Pontiac may have initially expected to offer it. And consequently, it was a pretty simple matter to swap one in.

A Dealer Accessory Package was offered but did NOT list the Tempest as an application for it. The Dealer Accessory Package for the Tempest was the same small trunk light that was available as a factory option (Pontiac Sales Code 481, but I have speculated it was coded in Box 56 on the Balt & KC doc, possibly 56C if not ordered in combination with other Lamp options).

Whether a Tempest Owner pulled one out of a scrap yard or bought the big car Dealer Accessory Package new and installed it, apparently lots of Tempests wound up with the reel out lamp. Just not "factory correct".

The wiring harness with connector to the trunk was Standard Content whether the factory Luggage Lamp was ordered or not. That made installation of the Dealer Accessory Package very easy and IIRC, the reel out lamp would connect at the same connector very conveniently.

There was a Service Craftsman News that discussed an issue with the Tempest Luggage Lamp option. The factory lamp installation/location is illustrated. See attached.