[Tomaso]

Hi guys,

I ended up getting a 428 for my 66 Bonneville. Now I’m seeking help on the rebuild? It’s a 4bolt main, and pretty much came complete.
My original plan was to rebuild it, but now I’m worried about the #16 heads?
I would like the torque to be there as well and was thinking about close to 550-600 ft.lbs?
My original goal was to build a stroker out of it with ported edelbrock heads, except when I got the quote for the parts alone on what was required it was close to 15k usd…

Any advice, would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

[64speed]

Edelbrock heads are worth it in my experience

[25stevem]

If you want that much torque ( 550 ft lbs minimum) you will need to greatly port those heads or run aftermarket heads, and you will need to stroke the motor if you want to stay at under 10 to 1 compression.

Just go to the Butler or KRE site and look at the combo's and what they consist of to make that level of torque your looking for!

If you can be happy with about 440 hp and close to 500 ft lbs then you can run your current # 16 heads fully rebuilt and with a bowl port job and get Pistons made to end you up at 9.4 to 9.6 compression , otherwise forget about having 550 ft lbs in NA form.

[Tomaso]

Originally Posted by 25stevem

If you want that much torque ( 550 ft lbs minimum) you will need to greatly port those heads or run aftermarket heads, and you will need to stroke the motor if you want to stay at under 10 to 1 compression.

Just go to the Butler or KRE site and look at the combo's and what they consist of to make that level of torque your looking for!

If you can be happy with about 440 hp and close to 500 ft lbs then you can run your current # 16 heads fully rebuilt and with a bowl port job and get Pistons made to end you up at 9.4 to 9.6 compression , otherwise forget about having 550 ft lbs in NA form.

If I can accomplish around that 500 ft.lb mark with most of what I have. I think I would be happy with that for now. so maybe I should keep the heads and have them rebuilt?
Would you keep the crank the same?
Let’s say my budget is 8k USD for parts for it. (Labour separate) what would you recommend?

Edit: When I added the stroker kit and edelbrock heads yes, it came close to that budget, but then everything else they mentioned that I may need to it. The number went to 14k

[i82much]

build a good short block and use the top end you have, upgrade later if it is not enough. good chance a stroker with iron d ports will give you plenty of giggles for the foreseeable future.

[blueghoast]

Originally Posted by Tomaso

If I can accomplish around that 500 ft.lb mark with most of what I have. I think I would be happy with that for now. so maybe I should keep the heads and have them rebuilt?
Would you keep the crank the same?
Let’s say my budget is 8k USD for parts for it. (Labour separate) what would you recommend?

Edit: When I added the stroker kit and edelbrock heads yes, it came close to that budget, but then everything else they mentioned that I may need to it. The number went to 14k

That 428 will make all the power you'll need with the 428 crank.
450hp and 500 lbs you'd be amazed with much power. I'm pretty sure.

GT

[AG]

Originally Posted by i82much

build a good short block and use the top end you have, upgrade later if it is not enough. good chance a stroker with iron d ports will give you plenty of giggles for the foreseeable future.

That's fine doing that, but if he intends to upgrade he needs to think of what he is going to upgrade to. If he runs iron heads now and chooses the appropriate piston to get the appropriate CR for his heads, that will change if he upgrades to Ali heads depending on the chamber size. You could pick a shortblock/piston combo that is a compromise that you can use both iron and Ali heads on. Just something to think about, always look down the road because stuff always changes.

[Tomaso]

Project was delayed. But going to bump the thread sort of. I’m thinking of using the stock crank and heads.
If I rebuild and port the #16 heads, any idea on how much this will affect the HP ratings using those cast heads.
And if keeping those heads and stock crank. What pistons should I use (dish and what -cc)? I would also be upgrading the rods.
Only have access to 91-94 octane here.

Thanks

[Scarebird]

Another thought is to go the other way: 366

Pontiac engineering was going to use it as a replacement for the 350 and 400; it hit the sweet spot running as a round port. Marketing killed it.

A custom 3.375 crank and rods with Eddy round port heads.

https://www.motortrend.com/features/...he-pontiac-v8/

[Gach]

The big question is if you keep iron #16 heads whats your intentions. I’m guessing running pump gas ?

[Half-Inch Stud]

455 crank& block gets the TQ goal. Maybe a crank rod and slug kit for your block's good bore.

[Gach]

Its going to be tough to run pump gas with those #16 heads unless you get a custom dish pistons to get the compression down to 9.5. The E-heads with 72 chamber would not be a problem. The money you’d spend getting 16’s ported and completely redone, plus added expenses of going to a custom dish piston with come real close to cost of a set of e-heads. Its just not cheap anymore. But thats what I would think about. You could easily make 500 hp with e-heads and a nice hydraulic cam. Nice cruiser all the torque you’d ever need, I’d save your pennies and go for e-heads. Also I’ll bet those 16’s have pressed and studs. Not sure but I’d check.

[PAUL K]

Originally Posted by blueghoast

That 428 will make all the power you'll need with the 428 crank.
450hp and 500 lbs you'd be amazed with much power. I'm pretty sure.

GT

X 2 .... Built properly a 428 will amaze all your friends!

[Gach]

This is crazy my 69 GP had 428 in it. It surprised allot of guys I took for a ride. That was back when I was into doing burn outs. Good that thing would smoke tires for ever. Sold the GP put a junk yard motor in it put 428 in 68 fire bird. Noting makes low end torque like a Poncho. Especially 428.

[Tomaso]

Yes. Looking to run pump gas. And need the D port heads.

The extra cost added in E-heads, etc. is going to cost extra in currency conversion, shipping and handling and taxes. That’s why I was debating on just using the stock crank and #16 heads.

So let’s say I go all out and get the builder kit from Butler. $8000. That’s now $10,700cdn plus I assume $1000 in shipping and another $1500 in taxes. That’s why I’m iffy about upgrading the heads and stroker crank?… I’m trying to outweigh and get most of what I have versus dishing out all that $$ and that’s why I was leaning more towards what I have.

They are 1968 #16 heads (screw in rocker studs)

[Gach]

I gotcha…yeah that’s very pricey. Well its really going to depend on gas that’s available in your area. I think 428’s were rated at 10.75 compression. Most likely run on 93 octane gas. One thing for sure because of the 428 stroke vs stroke in 455’s stroke…you definitely have a better chance of running it on 93 octane. Maybe rebuild the heads and just go with thicker head gaskets to lower the compression. The 428’s compared to 400’s made allot more torque.

[Tomaso]

You mentioned about the heads earlier about pressed or screw in. Now that they are the 1968 #16 (screw in studs) heads. How much of a difference will that make?

[Gach]

The cam you choose is going to have allot to do with it. I can’t remember what cam they had in them from the factory. But I know the Crower 60919 cam is designed for exactly for what your trying to do. A friend I help who built a 461 motor, made 500 hp, with E-heads. Which ended up at 11.1 compression no problem on 93 octane. That cam is really Ram Air 1V cam. I’m guessing with those 16 heads your going to be right around 10.1 compression. And thats going to be very dependent on what you have available for gas in your area. Woth good gas and 10.1 compression you shouldn’t have any problem. I don’t know of any other way to lower compression other then going with a thicker head gasket and not have to go with a custom dish piston

[Tomaso]

I figured I would need a custom dish piston. Butler has lots of options I just don’t know what one to choose from? Any advice on that would be appreciated as well. They have quite a bit of of choices for the pistons. I will spend the money on the pistons and upgrading the rods. As well as the cam. So I wouldn’t mind buying that Crower 60919 and going by that…

[Gach]

Originally Posted by Tomaso

You mentioned about the heads earlier about pressed or screw in. Now that they are the 1968 #16 (screw in studs) heads. How much of a difference will that make?

Thats good they have screw in studs. You won’t have any issues with studs pulling out. Which is common with press in studs. Thats a sign that motor is more then likely 10.50 compression. What’s available for gas in your area, thats critical part. But be prepared to pay for 93 octane gas. Most of what’s available here has 10% methanol. Which is much better. Its to bad because with aluminum heads you’d have absolutely no problem.