#21  
Old 07-23-2022, 11:23 AM
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TCSGTO TCSGTO is offline
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[QUOTE=mchell;6359056]
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Originally Posted by TCSGTO View Post
It means with the parts available today, any 16 year old kid can walk into Summit with his parents credit card and walk out with a shopping cart of bolts ons that’ll make 500HP on just about anything. It used to be a lot tougher, especially if you didn’t have a big block Chevy.[/QUOTE

TCS,
Damn, you got that thing pulling!

That a road paver grind?
Yes, Road Paver. Maybe not the best choice for max power in this engine but it makes enough and cruises and drives around almost like a stocker.

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68 GTO,3860#
Stock Original 400/M-20 Muncie,3.55’s
13.86 @ 100
Old combo:
462 10.75 CR,,SD 330CFM Round Port E's,Old Faithful cam,Jim Hand Continental,3.42's.
1968 Pontiac GTO : 11.114 @ 120.130 MPH

New combo:
517 MR-1,10.8 CR,SD 350CFM E's,QFT 950/Northwind,246/252 HR,9.5” 4000 stall,3.42's
636HP/654TQ
1.452 10.603 @ 125.09
http://www.dragtimes.com/Pontiac-GTO...lip-31594.html
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  #22  
Old 07-23-2022, 11:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Formulajones View Post
Running them on a dyno is always a good idea anyway. Why guess. Not really for bragging rights but for many other reasons.

These days with the cost of a good proper engine build surpassing as much as $10,000 for moderate stuff, it really makes a dyno session a no brainer.
Agreed,I’ve only had 2 engines I built put on a dyno and other than a couple of twists of the distributor no real tuning was done. Getting the power curve and numbers is nice but the peace of mind knowing it isn’t going to fly apart or leak when it goes in the car is more than worth it.
The in car tune is going to be different than the engine dyno tune anyway.

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68 GTO,3860#
Stock Original 400/M-20 Muncie,3.55’s
13.86 @ 100
Old combo:
462 10.75 CR,,SD 330CFM Round Port E's,Old Faithful cam,Jim Hand Continental,3.42's.
1968 Pontiac GTO : 11.114 @ 120.130 MPH

New combo:
517 MR-1,10.8 CR,SD 350CFM E's,QFT 950/Northwind,246/252 HR,9.5” 4000 stall,3.42's
636HP/654TQ
1.452 10.603 @ 125.09
http://www.dragtimes.com/Pontiac-GTO...lip-31594.html
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  #23  
Old 07-23-2022, 11:36 AM
ekancler ekancler is offline
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Are there any engine analyzer programs for Macs?

  #24  
Old 07-23-2022, 12:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 25stevem View Post
I am constantly amazed by folks who post up questions as to how much power there new build will make!

Many of these builds are very high Dollar builds with aftermarket blocks , forged cranks and high port or wide port heads, the needed intake manifold and 1100 cfm or better carb, yet it seams these folks don’t believe what there engine builder has told them the motor will make, or they choose to not spend what it takes for even a cheap computer engine analyzer program to answer there own questions!
I’m continually amazed at folks who make posts like this. Ones motivation is the business of the individual only. Ones choice is to bypass the title “what will it make”...

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462 Yc Block, zero deck
Probe forged pistons 6cc relief, Scatt Hbeam rods floating pins aprox. 10.21 CR
Comp Hyd-roller cam,roller lifters,springs ect.
236 244@ .050 108 LSA .511 lift, duration 289,297 @.oo6
Edelbrock Aluminum 87cc round port heads Larger valves ,ported polished and cut
Powerjection3,T2 manifold, Try-y’s
Flowcooler water pump.
71 formula with TKO600,hydraulic clutch 3.42 posi and 26 inch tire.
17x9 YO Honeycombs with Nitto 555's
  #25  
Old 07-23-2022, 12:49 PM
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Stan Weiss Stan Weiss is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ekancler View Post
Are there any engine analyzer programs for Macs?
I don't know a lot about Macs. But I do know that I have people running my Windows software of a Macs using / through parallels desktop (virtual machine).

Stan

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  #26  
Old 07-23-2022, 02:04 PM
Steve C. Steve C. is offline
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In addition to the points Formulajones brings up in post #16 the engine dyno sheet is also helpful with a custom torque converter built for your specific combination. My first was about 25 years ago when I called Marv Ripes at A-1 Automatic Transmissions, he was well known in the industry. As a consultant the first thing he asked was if I had a dyno sheet. I bought two from him. Similar situation with custom units at Hughes Performance, Continental and most recently at UCC.
All found the dyno sheet helpful.


.

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'70 TA / 505 cid / same engine but revised ( previous best 10.63 at 127.05 )
Old information here:
http://www.hotrod.com/articles/0712p...tiac-trans-am/

Sponsor of the world's fastest Pontiac powered Ford Fairmont (engine)
5.14 at 140 mph (1/8 mile) , true 10.5 tire, stock type suspension
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDoJnIP3HgE
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  #27  
Old 07-23-2022, 02:26 PM
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I'm building a 494 ci that is 4.32" x 4.21" stroke with SD CNC ported Eddy heart shaped chamber that flow 336 cfm, Bullet 235/241 at 0.50" HR cam, 0.632" lift, RPM intake with a 1" spacer and a 850 cfm carb, what do you think it will make?

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1967 Firechicken, 499", Edl heads, 262/266@0.050" duration and 0.627"/0.643 lift SR cam, 3.90 gear, 28" tire, 3550#. 10.01@134.3 mph with a 1.45 60'. Still WAY under the rollbar rule.
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  #28  
Old 07-23-2022, 02:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AG View Post
I'm building a 494 ci that is 4.32" x 4.21" stroke with SD CNC ported Eddy heart shaped chamber that flow 336 cfm, Bullet 235/241 at 0.50" HR cam, 0.632" lift, RPM intake with a 1" spacer and a 850 cfm carb, what do you think it will make?
You're not allowed to ask that.

  #29  
Old 07-23-2022, 02:40 PM
mgarblik mgarblik is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve C. View Post
As Ken Crocie stated about making 500HP, "It's like falling off a log".


.
I would more or less agree with Ken on this with a few little modifications. Yes it is certainly MUCH easier to make MUCH more HP with LESS effort if your willing to change cylinder heads on our old V-8's. The heads were the choke point on most, and Pontiac's were far from the worst. I oversee a wide variety of engine builds in my class every year. My observation, rather than a HP number is HP per inch since many different platforms are used. Making less than 1 HP per cubic inch is a failure IMO, unless using stock un-touched heads and doing a restoration type rebuild. The 1 HP per inch used to be a Detroit goal, and the handful of engines that made or exceeded it were revered as "super engines". 327-375 HP, 454-450 HP 421 SD, 426 Hemi, 350-370 HP are a few examples. Almost any iron head V-8 can get there with mild head work and the right cam and a decent induction system. 1.25 HP per inch is pretty easy with a modern aluminum replacement head and little else.

  #30  
Old 07-23-2022, 02:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slowbird View Post
You're not allowed to ask that.
Oops.

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1967 Firechicken, 499", Edl heads, 262/266@0.050" duration and 0.627"/0.643 lift SR cam, 3.90 gear, 28" tire, 3550#. 10.01@134.3 mph with a 1.45 60'. Still WAY under the rollbar rule.
  #31  
Old 07-23-2022, 03:03 PM
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As a less experienced person, it is nice run your specs by people who know more and can get you into a ballpark of what you're trying to do with your motor and alert you to any big mistakes you might be making. I found that really helpful. I am having my motor dyno'd. Like Formulajones said, I really like the idea of having the guy who built it run it in and make sure there are no obvious initial problems as the main benefit. But, it's also nice to know what your combo made rather than a guess.

I asked my builder what he thinks my motor will make and he won't make a prediction. I understand where he's coming from. If he predicts a certain number and you don't get there then there's disappointment and maybe even blame.

The short block is done and it should be on the dyno within the next 2 weeks. Just for fun, before it goes on the dyno, I'm gonna post my final specs and let anyone who wants make an estimate. I'm gonna be there for the final pulls so I should be able to get some video of it too.

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70 TA, 467 cid IAII, Edelbrock D-port heads, 9.94:1, Butler HR 236/242 @ .050, 520/540 lift, 112 LSA, Ray Klemm calibrated Q-jet, TKX (2.87 1st/.81 OD), 3.31 rear

https://youtube.com/shorts/gG15nb4FWeo?feature=share
  #32  
Old 07-23-2022, 03:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AG View Post
I'm building a 494 ci that is 4.32" x 4.21" stroke with SD CNC ported Eddy heart shaped chamber that flow 336 cfm, Bullet 235/241 at 0.50" HR cam, 0.632" lift, RPM intake with a 1" spacer and a 850 cfm carb, what do you think it will make?
a dent in a factory hood!

  #33  
Old 07-23-2022, 03:20 PM
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OCMDGTO OCMDGTO is offline
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I'm always interested in hearing real world results from any pump gas build. Timeslip or dyno with no BS speculation. Gives a great starting point for people shooting for a similar level of power

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69 GTO Liberty Blue/dark blue 467, 850 Holley, T2, Edelbrock Dport 310cfm w Ram Air manifolds, HFT 245/251D .561/.594L, T400, 9" w 3.50s 3905lbs 11.59@ 114, 1.57/ 60'
  #34  
Old 07-23-2022, 03:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OCMDGTO View Post
I'm always interested in hearing real world results from any pump gas build. Timeslip or dyno with no BS speculation. Gives a great starting point for people shooting for a similar level of power
i can report that my e-head, old faithful, rpm with quick fuel 850 build in 65 gto hardtop with a muncie and 3.55 gears gives me a huge stiffy. will post a thread with plenty of stiffy pics if anyone is interested.

  #35  
Old 07-23-2022, 04:02 PM
Steve C. Steve C. is offline
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"...any 16 year old kid can walk into Summit with his parents credit card and walk out with a shopping cart of bolts ons that’ll make 500HP"

That brought a smile to my face. Fun story, about 22 years ago I befriended a young kid that was 15 years old working at McDonalds. At 16 he bought his first car, a Firebird and then went to work part time for my engine builder. His first engine was 4.250" stroke, un-ported Edelbrock heads, Crower 236 degree hyd flat tappet cam, Performer RPM intake, 750 vac. sec Holley carb and headers. On the dyno it made 509.2 HP at 5200 rpm. And his mother paid for the dyno session as a HS graduation present. No parents credit card though.... he paid for it working at the engine shop.

.

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'70 TA / 505 cid / same engine but revised ( previous best 10.63 at 127.05 )
Old information here:
http://www.hotrod.com/articles/0712p...tiac-trans-am/

Sponsor of the world's fastest Pontiac powered Ford Fairmont (engine)
5.14 at 140 mph (1/8 mile) , true 10.5 tire, stock type suspension
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDoJnIP3HgE

Last edited by Steve C.; 07-23-2022 at 04:17 PM.
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  #36  
Old 07-23-2022, 04:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by i82much View Post
i can report that my e-head, old faithful, rpm with quick fuel 850 build in 65 gto hardtop with a muncie and 3.55 gears gives me a huge stiffy. will post a thread with plenty of stiffy pics if anyone is interested.
Trust me nobody wants to see that. Congrats on your build, though. Sounds like you accomplished your goal.

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Chris D
69 GTO Liberty Blue/dark blue 467, 850 Holley, T2, Edelbrock Dport 310cfm w Ram Air manifolds, HFT 245/251D .561/.594L, T400, 9" w 3.50s 3905lbs 11.59@ 114, 1.57/ 60'
  #37  
Old 07-23-2022, 04:52 PM
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Originally Posted by OCMDGTO View Post
Trust me nobody wants to see that. Congrats on your build, though. Sounds like you accomplished your goal.
PM sent.

  #38  
Old 07-23-2022, 05:08 PM
Dragncar Dragncar is offline
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People like to make educated guesses. We spend a lot of money on this stuff , so we like to talk about it, big deal.
And not everyone has a "engine builder". Some do it themselves.

  #39  
Old 07-23-2022, 05:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 25stevem View Post
I am constantly amazed by folks who post up questions as to how much power there new build will make!

Many of these builds are very high Dollar builds with aftermarket blocks , forged cranks and high port or wide port heads, the needed intake manifold and 1100 cfm or better carb, yet it seams these folks don’t believe what there engine builder has told them the motor will make, or they choose to not spend what it takes for even a cheap computer engine analyzer program to answer there own questions!
I'm impressed at how some folks post on EVERY thread, and demand respect, are happy to critique the posts of others but cannot use or spell simple words correctly.
How can I take advise from, (or give respect to) someone who cant use or spell the words "Seams" or "There" (or spell dozens of other simple words) correctly?
I once asked about wheel lugs.
Steve posted that I was lazy and wasting bandwidth.
Is this thread wasting bandwidth?


Last edited by F ROCK; 07-23-2022 at 06:11 PM.
  #40  
Old 07-23-2022, 05:41 PM
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too many feelings in this thread. everyone needs to go do a few burnouts and knock back a few cold ones!

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