[dataway]

Any tinkerers, experimenters, electronics guys, machinists interested in finding a home in one of the existing topics for crazy car related projects, gizmos, modifications etc. that would otherwise be ridiculed, mocked or otherwise attacked in "serious" topics?

I have an urge to build a servo motor choke for choke stove type carbs, would be nice to discuss things like that without the usual ... uhhh.. scrutiny

A Safe Space ( ) for those of us with unconventional ideas, methods and projects.

[Cardo]

While I don't have anything worth wile to contribute, I'd love to read along - as long as no one knows.

[dataway]

Yep ... it would be kind of like what they say about riding a moped

[poncho-mike]

I read an article a number of years ago about how the new Chebby engines (LT1 or LS motors) were reverse cooled. The logic was that the optimum temperature for the heads was 160F but the block liked it warmer, around 220F. I have the article somewhere, so don't hold me to those numbers. Standard Pontiac pumps the water through the block, then into the heads. Reverse cooling would pump the water into the heads first, then into the block. Reverse cooling would optimize engine performance and reduce spark knock.

I've wanted to build a reverse cooled engine big cubic inch Pontiac engine with reverse cooling for some time now. I'm a mechanical design engineer, so I know how to thermocouple for testing and I design using CREO (PRO-E). The only problem is the software is expensive.

[Half-Inch Stud]

I loath digital electronics being applied to my old car, yet there are nice Analog electronics.

Remoted HEI Module onto the Firewall. Done.

Grafted "Low Fuel" modules into Rally Cluster for Low Fuel, Low Oil indications.

Power Antenna Option all original except the Motor is Mercedes/Volvo/VW with a pair of Cube Relays wired&Ziptied upon to attain Up&Down.

4L80 is full Manual control with the helps of the Vacuum Modulator kit and microswitched mounted to the HURST CompPlus shifter.

Internal Reg Alternator is a given for reliability.

Stereo is a grafted 95 Lincoln "Analog" Cassette system, but younz can do better with any forklift stereo system you like.

Speedo Alert option put to Rally Cluster to control a cube relay; feature unused for now since speedo cable is not turning: desire to graft an eletrical-motor driven circuit to drive speedo!!

Choke: sometimes a Spring is the right solution. Elec Choke controls could be nice. I practiced modifying the 3-wire Servos by adding an Analog dither to the 2k slider pot for non-digital external control. Basically adding a voltage control to fool the servo off Center position or "zero".

HEI Advance; had a PMD Vent pull cable controlling Timing set for awhile, but removed due to lack of need with Low Compression.

[camerjeff]

Mike - I don't know if reverse cooling actually gives the results that you and I think it would. Pontiac Flat Head and the early V8's through around 1957 used reverse cooling. From what I remember it did help the life of the valves in the flat head engines, but on the V8's it only made the engines a bit more expensive to build, with no real world improvements.
If the Artical you remember was refering to the one year only use of reverse cooling that was used on the 1st year LT1 Corvette engines. It was found to be the same as the early Pontiac V8's, no real improvements in cooling or durabuility, and made the engines a few dollars more expensive to produce. It went away quitly after all the hype for 1987, then never spoken of again.

I agree it makes sense to my mind to reverse cool the engine, but I think they would have kept at it if it did in fact have the improvements they claimed.

I do think a "tinkering" forum could be a good thing also.

[RocktimusPryme]

I have for a while been considering trying to make either a gas cap, or a use when needed device that would make old car filler necks more amenable to the size of modern gas pump nozzles.

My firebird is a PITA to put fuel in. If you hold it down full blast like a normal modern car it invariably not only stops before full, but also regularly spits gas back out at me. I end up having the baby the pump to get the tank full.

Ive worked out a few designs. Im sure I could make one for myself but Ive been trying to figure out how to make many of them cost effectively. I think they would sell at car shows. I think the easiest thing to do would be to use one of the modern filler necks that dont use a cap at all like some Ford models. Then just have tangs like a vintage gas cap so you could screw it onto your classic filler neck.

[ponchonlefty]

i think its a great idea,who doesn't like to tinker and mod things. that what its all about.

[Pav8427]

I have seen the reverse cooling set up on a SBC drag car. Basically a short water pump in place of a long water pump with dead ended spacers tapped so he could run hoses to the center and rear of the heads.
I have a simple idea for an adjustable idle air bypass for a Quad that I think would work well for that one carb that seems to get swapped around to different set ups for tuning or diagnosing.
I like the idea of a 'Backyard Engineer' forum.
It would bring all talents together.
Ive been a Machinist/fabricator for 38 years and would throw in my 2cents when needed.

[dataway]

OK, now the question is, what little used forum topic do we use for our discussions. I doubt the forum admin wants to add an "Experimental" section, but who knows.

HIS ... I've got a simple, working servo driver circuit made up with a linear pot to adjust position. I don't want to make it a "hard" choke ... I want a spring between the servo and the choke rod so it imitates the stock bi-metal coil and all carb hardware can remain untouched (with the exception of modified choke rod). All the servo would do is "imitate" the coil spring, fooling the carb into thinking the engine was warmer or colder than it actually is. I'd like to enclose in something very similar to the OEM choke stove .. problem will be isolating the servo from heat well enough.

[Half-Inch Stud]

There are tiny servos that will fit under the stainless Choke Housing. Filled Crossovers will be mandatory.

The wires could dress any way you like. The 14.4V will need dropped (LM317?) to the desired 5V or 7.5V supply. Perhaps a thermistor (or a bunch of diodes in series) can drive the analog servo?

[Formulabruce]

Originally Posted by poncho-mike

I read an article a number of years ago about how the new Chebby engines (LT1 or LS motors) were reverse cooled. The logic was that the optimum temperature for the heads was 160F but the block liked it warmer, around 220F. I have the article somewhere, so don't hold me to those numbers. Standard Pontiac pumps the water through the block, then into the heads. Reverse cooling would pump the water into the heads first, then into the block. Reverse cooling would optimize engine performance and reduce spark knock.

I've wanted to build a reverse cooled engine big cubic inch Pontiac engine with reverse cooling for some time now. I'm a mechanical design engineer, so I know how to thermocouple for testing and I design using CREO (PRO-E). The only problem is the software is expensive.

LT engines from like 93 to 97 were reverse cooling. Newer ones as well, But. PONTIAC did pump coolant into a pipe in the heads in the middle to late 50's . When they went conventional they never put the big holes in the block that Chevy did to cool their heads.
This is where the "421" mod comes into play with water pressure forcing more EVEN and better head cooling.
Pontiac engines from 60-79 don't run at even head Temps and so doing a FI system isn't really as optimum as it should be. A " bung" in the exhaust does NOT tell the temp story on Pontiac's.
While I love reverse cooling, a method to Even out each combustion chamber heat would really be a huge step.
While it doesn't require software, and its very very cheap, a "421" mod can get things evened up temp wise.
Be cool to find a way to monitor Temps at locations.. ( yeah I have an IR Gun.

[Formulabruce]

Tiny servos are plastic geared. I tried one on a RA set up on the bottom of an air cleaner. Took about 2 weeks and warped gear and smoked servo.

[jerry455]

1959 Pontiac V8's had reverse cooling still. It might have ended in 1960.

[Cardo]

Stick it in Members helping Members....

[dataway]

Originally Posted by Half-Inch Stud

There are tiny servos that will fit under the stainless Choke Housing. Filled Crossovers will be mandatory.

The wires could dress any way you like. The 14.4V will need dropped (LM317?) to the desired 5V or 7.5V supply. Perhaps a thermistor (or a bunch of diodes in series) can drive the analog servo?

HIS .. right now the plan is to use L7805CV to get the 5v ... mostly because that's what I have on hand. Tested the circuit using 5v and it seems to work nicely. My original idea was a semi-auto choke using thermistor driving a circuit that could be adjusted for a temp bias ... was getting a bit complicated.

Metal gear micro-servos are pretty common these days ... but who knows if the case/components would hold up. Target vehicle has blocked off cross-over only on the driver side. Would have to stuff the well with insulation, add a cover plate, space up the server a bit ... all inside a choke stove size enclosure.

Yes, Members helping Members might be a good spot.

[dataway]

Rocktimus ... if you could come up with a CAD file for the filler ... 3D printing might be a good option ... but that would be more of a "give away" situation.

[Half-Inch Stud]

No servo gonna last in the Stainless box Housing with a block off plate. Both Head crossovers Gotta be filled.

[dataway]

May end up that a cable with a 90 degree pivot and a spring link to the rod would be best. But, would lose all appearance of OEM stock.

I have found some micro linear actuator servos, seem to be quite a bit more simple in construction, and some micro stepper motor linear actuators which look a lot more temp tolerant being they are just a motor and metal screw/rack ... but would require a micro processor to drive/program it.

But I am having fun working out the electronics

[Half-Inch Stud]

The mid 60s big cars have lower dash Vent pull knob-cables that serve very well for stock looking underhood controls