#61  
Old 08-05-2022, 11:42 AM
hurryinhoosier62 hurryinhoosier62 is offline
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As I recall, my uncle’s ‘69 RAIV GTO had a somewhat choppy idle. From 4000 rpm to redline it would scare the &$&? out of you!

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  #62  
Old 08-05-2022, 02:38 PM
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There are lots of Youtube clips that are supposedly RAIV cams/motors but who know what they really are. This clip is from Rocky Rotella's Youtube channel.

https://youtube.com/shorts/awAZMAtprLI?feature=share

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https://youtube.com/shorts/gG15nb4FWeo?feature=share
  #63  
Old 08-05-2022, 07:48 PM
mgarblik mgarblik is offline
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Originally Posted by mgarblik View Post
I have my engine ready to dyno now. 90% anyway. I hope to have better luck than Nick! But you never know until you get it running. Should have some results by the weekend.
Well after 7 hours on the dyno today, pretty sure I made Nick look like an absolute genius!. Had nothing but trouble all day. The good news, the engine started instantly and we ran it about an hour and broke in the cam without any problems. Then things went to hell from there. Both fuel pressure regulators failed on the dyno, One won't adjust at all, the other is too high no matter what. Had to order 2 new ones. Then one of the fuel flow meters is also not working correctly. All day long the MSD7 has been providing a weak spark which wasn't really noticed until we really loaded the engine hard. So, the results were no pulls representative of what this engine will run when all this crap is straightened out. Positives, no leaks anywhere, cam broken in, inner valve springs installed, engine mechanically sounds very nice and idles well. Will be the middle of next week before we can make any real pulls. Murphy kicked our azzz today. ..... or I was just channeling NICK!

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  #64  
Old 08-06-2022, 01:42 AM
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I watched the video, then like some of you stopped when he signed off;
After reading your comments, I went back to catch the very last of it...

My thoughts on the idle sound;
I agree it did not sound like a 041.
I seem to recall that running a 744 cam with unported #12 heads, was REALLY lopey at 700-850(?)rpm.
I thought when he was running the engine it generally sounded terrible;
It sounded like it was lugging and just plain unhappy;
Every time he ran it, you could see he would push the throttle to a point, and the revs would go down for a bit before slowly recovering..

He definitely seemed a bit uptight/worried about the Pontiac - or maybe that's just the way he is;
If uptight/worried isn't his natural state, then I would think he really was out of his element.
Maybe that explains the 20w50??

I don't want to seem to knock a guy for not cutting apparent mishaps from the video (I liked seeing the trial and error stuff), or for working on an engine (and parts) as essentially supplied to him.

As a side query;
Am I the only one to think that if that other Quadrajet was somehow determined to run at 20:1 AFR;
Shouldn't he have been able to resolve the lean AFR to go away from EVER considering running a quadrajet without secondary metering rods??

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2009 Cobalt SS: 13.9 @ 103mph (current DD; makes something north of 300hp & 350ft/lbs)

Last edited by unruhjonny; 08-06-2022 at 01:51 AM.
  #65  
Old 08-06-2022, 05:12 AM
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Stan Weiss Stan Weiss is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unruhjonny View Post
I watched the video, then like some of you stopped when he signed off;
After reading your comments, I went back to catch the very last of it...

My thoughts on the idle sound;
I agree it did not sound like a 041.
I seem to recall that running a 744 cam with unported #12 heads, was REALLY lopey at 700-850(?)rpm.
I thought when he was running the engine it generally sounded terrible;
It sounded like it was lugging and just plain unhappy;
Every time he ran it, you could see he would push the throttle to a point, and the revs would go down for a bit before slowly recovering..


He definitely seemed a bit uptight/worried about the Pontiac - or maybe that's just the way he is;
If uptight/worried isn't his natural state, then I would think he really was out of his element.
Maybe that explains the 20w50??

I don't want to seem to knock a guy for not cutting apparent mishaps from the video (I liked seeing the trial and error stuff), or for working on an engine (and parts) as essentially supplied to him.

As a side query;
Am I the only one to think that if that other Quadrajet was somehow determined to run at 20:1 AFR;
Shouldn't he have been able to resolve the lean AFR to go away from EVER considering running a quadrajet without secondary metering rods??
I believe reason for this. Was it is running on a dyno and how he had the dyno setup.

As far as the oil type and pressure. It has been a good number of year be I seem to remember doing those thing back when we ran the Chrysler 426 Hemis.

Stan

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  #66  
Old 08-06-2022, 01:53 PM
mgarblik mgarblik is offline
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Originally Posted by mgarblik View Post
Well after 7 hours on the dyno today, pretty sure I made Nick look like an absolute genius!. Had nothing but trouble all day. The good news, the engine started instantly and we ran it about an hour and broke in the cam without any problems. Then things went to hell from there. Both fuel pressure regulators failed on the dyno, One won't adjust at all, the other is too high no matter what. Had to order 2 new ones. Then one of the fuel flow meters is also not working correctly. All day long the MSD7 has been providing a weak spark which wasn't really noticed until we really loaded the engine hard. So, the results were no pulls representative of what this engine will run when all this crap is straightened out. Positives, no leaks anywhere, cam broken in, inner valve springs installed, engine mechanically sounds very nice and idles well. Will be the middle of next week before we can make any real pulls. Murphy kicked our azzz today. ..... or I was just channeling NICK!
Messed around on the dyno with my engine some today. Borrowed an MSD tester and tested all three coils and MSD boxes on the dyno stand. 1 MSD 6, 1 7 and a back-up 7. All the ignition stuff and the wiring checks out 100%. So the misfire on my engine is either fuel system related or something within the distributor while running. Re-tourqed the head gaskets. That went normal with a few requiring a small tweak.
Concerning the oil pressure on the engine Nick tested: My engine has a stock pan and a M54F oil pump. (80 lb.) I like them but many don't. Start-up oil pressure and warm-up oil pressure was 95-97 PSI with 10W-30 VR1 Valvoline. When engine was up to 160-170F, oil pressure was 35-38 PSI @ 1100 RPM's. Pulls at 180 degrees, 78-82 PSI @ 5000 RPM. I am fine with that. Many on here are happy with half that. Might need a new distributor gear at 100K miles and at the mileage I drive it I will be 115 years old!

  #67  
Old 08-07-2022, 08:29 AM
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How much variation is there in oil pressure between tight bearing clearances and " loose"?

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  #68  
Old 08-07-2022, 10:27 AM
mgarblik mgarblik is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scott70 View Post
How much variation is there in oil pressure between tight bearing clearances and " loose"?
I can't answer this fully, someone else may be able to chime in. My clearances are: mains, .0032-.0035 Rods: .0032-.0033. I guess you would consider that loose. I was limited on my options because of my crankshaft. The main clearances are fine IMO. The rods are about .001 larger than optimal. I was locked-in because I am running a left over Funny car Nitro crankshaft. The rod journals already had extra clearance ground in and were .031 under. So I had to polish and run. The mains were .023 under and I was able to grind to -.030. Oil circuit is stock other than .040' restrictors at each lifter bore. There is TONS of oil to the valvetrain.

  #69  
Old 08-07-2022, 04:27 PM
SD455DJ SD455DJ is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cliff R View Post
The engine doesn't even sound like it has a "RAIV" cam in it, nor is it making the numbers a RAIV cam will make in a Pontiac 400 build with #48 heads on it.

There are simply a LOT of things amiss with that build, and even with the blurb at the end how they bolted on a Holley and swapped out the points distributor for an HEI and saw improvements, the numbers just aren't there.

I'll add here that the RAIV is really not the best choice for a 400 engine unless you've pretty much patterned it after the original RAII and RAIV engines. Those engines had high compression, and round port heads, plus the factory made sure the cars they went into had pretty tall rear gears.

I've found from building 400's here with "D" port heads, or even KRE aluminum "D" ports that I can make about the same HP with a slightly smaller cam and enjoy more vacuum at idle, improved throttle response, and more power and efficiency in the "normal" driving range. With over 80 degrees of overlap the RAIV cam just bleeds off too much cylinder pressure in 400 builds for street use. It only works OK at 10 to 1 compression, better around 10.5 and starts to shine pretty good up near or just over 11 to 1.

I actually had a customer once have his RAIV engine rebuilt and the "builder" lowered the compression by machining a dish in a TRW forged piston and installing a "modern" lobe profile cam dubbed as having "RAIV specs". Down at 9.5 to 1 it was a complete "turd" even with the "modern" camshaft in it and he ended up having it done again with flat tops, tight squish, real RAIV cam, and closer to 11 to 1 compression. Even clear up there it managed 92-93 octane without issues. That clearly show us how much cylinder pressure you bleed off the RAIV cam in a 400 build.........
To add to what Cliff previously posted, here are my real-world driving experiences with a RAIV GTO. My 1970 RAIV Judge has had 3 different RAIV engines in it. The car is an original TH400/3.90 rear car with PS, manual drum brakes, AM/FM mono w/rear speaker (no gauge car that I added a factory hood tach & rally gauges, and a formula steering wheel) that weighs 4100 lbs. with a full tank, spare in the trunk, and driver (160 lbs.) …a real lightweight!

RAIV #1: the original did manage 13.90’s @ 102 mph stock after new .030” over TRW pistons, rings & bearings with a rebalance back in the early 1980’s. On the track it was slow out of the hole with the stock suspension (stiff) with 2.20 60’ times typical and no wheel spin, just mat it and wait this the tach reaches 3000 rpm and then the RAIV would start to wake up. This engine had 10.0 to 1 compression. The heads cc’d at 70 cc’s as they were cut a couple times that I know of, but the pistons were deep in the hole (.020”?) with terrible quench. Ran great on 93 octane fuel with no ping/detonation ever detected.

RAIV #2: (time was late 1980’s) was built around a .030” over 9792506 Service Replacement block, NOS RAIV heads/valves/ springs/rocker arms/pushrods/guide-plates/041 cam & lifters (thanks to the late Jim Luikens). The heads were minimally cut to ensure they were flat, same with the block, so the pistons (.030” TRW’s) were most likely .015” in the hole…not ideal quench…on stock resized cast rods. The combustion chambers measured 72 cc’s average after the cut and the calculated compression ratio was 9.75 to 1. A lot lower than we thought we were going to get. But, the fresh combo ran a better than #1 at 13.60’s @ 104+ mph (all-time best was 13.54 @ 105.6 mph in good cool fall weather). It was still a pig out of the hole with no wheel spin, but 60’ times improved to the 2.10’s and really turned on at 3000 rpm…again. Always ran 93 octane fuel and never a complaint or hint of knock.

RAIV #3: An original numbers matching RAIV engine out of a ’70 GTO I owned that I was going to restore. We built the engine back in 2004 and replaced the rods with then new Eagle H-beams and pistons were .040” over Diamonds with 1/16”, 1/16”, 3/16” ring pack. The engine was ‘rebuilt’ by the previous owner when I acquired the GTO, but never fired/broken-in (a good thing as the rod bearings were in backwards and too tight, would barely spin with a breaker bar). The 614 heads measured 68 cc’s after a minimal cut and the block was zero-decked with quench set a .039” with Felpro 1016 head gaskets, RAIV copy cam w/ 1.65 rockers, etc. The calculated compression ratio was 10.9 to 1 and what a difference that made. The car now can’t get traction, so has to be finessed off the line (still has the too stiff stock suspension), but 60’ times are in the 2.0’s and has run a best of 12.85 @ 110 mph. It now needs 93 octane and 5 gals of 110 to keep it happy though, 50/50 when raced. I’ll admit I’ve never tried just running straight 93 octane in it yet as I sold the car and the RAIV isn’t mine to play with any more, but it probably would run fine if you kept out of the Q-jets secondaries.

RAIV 400’s just need compression in the 10.5 to 11.0 range in order to run great with the 041 cam. A good friend of mine who grew up on L78 Chevelle SS’s said they never picked on RAIV GTO’s when prowling the streets back in the day because he’d been dusted by most he ran across (not many).

Sorry about the long-winded post…

Dennis

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