[gtofreek]

Originally Posted by Cliff R

Look forward to seeing some dyno tests on a few of those cams in different builds Paul.

"Seat of the pants" testing is next to useless with these things, and even worse when you don't have any traction.......Cliff

For some people who don't drag race, "seat of the pants" is all they have. A lot of people I build engines for do not drag race, so they want something that gets their adrenaline flowing when they step on it. Explosive power does that. An engine that goes "BWAAAAAAA" when you step on it is boring, no matter how fast it is in the 1/4 mile.

[Cliff R]

Agreed Paul, however, I can put up hundreds of examples here of engine builds that would literally rip the tires off the rims, even when the car was well rolled out, and scare the living crap out of the driver and anyone else on board.......that didn't even run 14's in the 1/4 mile when we finally got them to the track and put sticky tires on them.

Not trying to put a big black cloud over this thread or any other, but doing a few burn-outs and blasting thru the gears on the street does little more than put a smile on the face of the operator, it does next to NOTHING for telling the rest of us how much power that engine makes with that particular combination of parts.

Folks should still put that stuff up here, because how well the owner/driver likes and is happy with the end result is important, and that may meet all the goals for the owner as well.......but it really doesn't tell the rest of us much about that particular camshaft and how well it really works.........IMHO.......Cliff

[gtofreek]

I agree Cliff. I wish I had more 1/4 mile info to post, but our local track is high in altitude[3075'], and air density is usually in the 5000+ foot range, so some of those 1/4 mile blasts probably won't tell the whole story either. Compared to where you are, there is probably 3/4 to 1 second difference in 1/4 mile times. Just going to Phoenix can drop .3-.4 seconds off of times. This is why I post dyno pulls, since I have no 1/4 mile times to show.

[Formulajones]

Can't wait to see those dyno sessions Paul. The voodoo cams interest me.

I can't wait to see what you guys come up with for a cam in the future build I have planned That has to go on the dyno when finished too.

[gtofreek]

Here is an actual 1/4 mile time that my friend 68azbird just texted me. He ran his 68 Firebird at the track in Phoenix yesterday. The engine is a 9.4:1 455 with #16 D-port heads, home ported, that flow mid to high 220's[I flowed them a couple years ago]. It has a solid FT UDHarold cam in it[not a VooDoo cam, but designed by the same guy], ground on a 110° LSA. Warrior single plane intake, and a 750 Holley carb. Car weighs 3625 with him in it. It went 11.446 @ 117.80 MPH! Track altitude is 1178'.

[pastry_chef]

Originally Posted by gtofreek

Here is an actual 1/4 mile time that my friend 68azbird just texted me. He ran his 68 Firebird at the track in Phoenix yesterday. The engine is a 9.4:1 455 with #16 D-port heads, home ported, that flow mid to high 220's[I flowed them a couple years ago]. It has a solid FT UDHarold cam in it[not a VooDoo cam, but designed by the same guy], ground on a 110° LSA. Warrior single plane intake, and a 750 Holley carb. Car weighs 3625 with him in it. It went 11.446 @ 117.80 MPH! Track altitude is 1178'.

Very strong.. thanks.

If some read from other forums they would see a LONG pattern of outstanding results using Harold Brookshire designs (Ultradyne, Voodoo, other).
EVERYONE is happy!

Mike Jones another fantastic designer whose cams won several Indy 500 and Daytona 500's said at the track it seemed to be between his cams and Harold's

I only wish the Voodoo had a few more lobes in-between the current options.

Here is a simple example:
69 Chevelle
A 9.5 compression
454 with bowl ported factory ovals runs 11.4 in the 1/4 with an Ultradyne 288/296 hyd flat on 110 LSA.
RPM intake, HP1000
10-inch ATI Treemaster
Shifting at 5800 RPM

[gtofreek]

If you look at the SB Chevy section, any of those lobes can be ground on a Pontiac core. There is a much greater selection over there.

[pastry_chef]

Originally Posted by gtofreek

If you look at the SB Chevy section, any of those lobes can be ground on a Pontiac core. There is a much greater selection over there.

For example, in SBC VOODOO HYD FLATS I see
Dur at .050
207, 213, 219, 227, 233, 241, 249

Are there more than this?

--
Would be nice to have others like 223, 237, 244
Just saying 8 degrees is a large jump.

[Steve C.]

Always a issue within many in the Pontiac community is the ever present opinin that is opposit of leading cam designers today, in that a cam lobe that provides a quicker opening will have a smoother idle, better off-idle response, superior low speed drivability and a broader power curve. Like the Voodoo and UltraDyne lobes.

.

[68azbird]

Originally Posted by gtofreek

Here is an actual 1/4 mile time that my friend 68azbird just texted me. He ran his 68 Firebird at the track in Phoenix yesterday. The engine is a 9.4:1 455 with #16 D-port heads, home ported, that flow mid to high 220's[I flowed them a couple years ago]. It has a solid FT UDHarold cam in it[not a VooDoo cam, but designed by the same guy], ground on a 110° LSA. Warrior single plane intake, and a 750 Holley carb. Car weighs 3625 with him in it. It went 11.446 @ 117.80 MPH! Track altitude is 1178'.

Hahaha holley 750
Maybe if I wanted to run 12.00
It's a 1050
Not everyone wants to be like grandpa driving a Cadillac down to Florida

[slowbird]

Originally Posted by Cliff R

Agreed Paul, however, I can put up hundreds of examples here of engine builds that would literally rip the tires off the rims, even when the car was well rolled out, and scare the living crap out of the driver and anyone else on board.......that didn't even run 14's in the 1/4 mile when we finally got them to the track and put sticky tires on them.

Not trying to put a big black cloud over this thread or any other, but doing a few burn-outs and blasting thru the gears on the street does little more than put a smile on the face of the operator, it does next to NOTHING for telling the rest of us how much power that engine makes with that particular combination of parts.

Folks should still put that stuff up here, because how well the owner/driver likes and is happy with the end result is important, and that may meet all the goals for the owner as well.......but it really doesn't tell the rest of us much about that particular camshaft and how well it really works.........IMHO.......Cliff

Really a 14sec ride scary on the street?

[gtofreek]

Originally Posted by 68azbird

Hahaha holley 750
Maybe if I wanted to run 12.00
It's a 1050
Not everyone wants to be like grandpa driving a Cadillac down to Florida

I thought you said it was a 750?

[TedRamAirII]

Originally Posted by slowbird

Really a 14sec ride scary on the street?

When its spinning tires and getting sideways, and the driver doesn't have good control skills, they think its "scary fast". But when it has traction, it will be a dog.

[Skip Fix]

There are G meters and I think even smart phone apps that can give G force at launch and even 1/4 mile times. Heck I've still got an old Vericom from the 80s that does that! You can use those vs track if they do not go to a track.

[Cliff R]

"When its spinning tires and getting sideways, and the driver doesn't have good control skills, they think its "scary fast". But when it has traction, it will be a dog."

+200 or more!

A local guy here showed up with a later Olds 442 powered by a 350 instead of the 307. He thought it was a BEAST as it would rip the tires to shreds on full throttle starts and get all out of control and scare the crap out of you. His very well thought out engine build was estimated at 350hp.

I thought it was sort of a "turd" in the higher gears with traction, but for sure was quite scary at lower speeds when it was all over the road.

We took it to our local track, the owner thought it was a solid 13 second car and might even dip into the 12's. I drove the car and the first two runs showed no traction at all and it spun most of the way thru the 1/8th mile. I followed up with a "John Force" burn-out, found perfect traction, and it took so long to get to the end of the track I considered ordering a Big Mac and a Coke and consuming them along the way!

Best we could get out of the car that night with or without traction was just under 10 second 1/8th mile times or well into the 15's in the 1/4 mile.

This is why I put no faith at all in "seat of the pants" testing, especially w/o any traction.....FWIW......Cliff

[lust4speed]

Originally Posted by 68azbird

Hahaha holley 750
Maybe if I wanted to run 12.00
It's a 1050
Not everyone wants to be like grandpa driving a Cadillac down to Florida

Hey now, lets not be bad mouthing the Holley 750. My son's shabby red '68 bird that was out at Pontiac Heaven ran a best on Sunday with an 11.27 at 119 with a 750 vacuum secondary carb (428 w/670 heads).

[Squidward]

Hmmm... I'd take the 12 second car, Big Mac combo meal (loves them fries!), AND drive it to Florida!

Trifecta, baby!

[455rebel]

some of us hillbillys have only a seat of pants meter.
my 702 is a baby cam in a ring and bearing and hone 80,000
mile 455, blowing through stock logs and stock intake with a q-jet
(did use clifs book) . it only ran 8.90s in the 1/8 (high 13s in the 1/4)
its put many a smile on the face of the passenger with only 3.15 gears.
(have to launch it at 1100rpm to get traction). on real street tires.
so there is no perfect cam!!! my 702 felt way better than the summet 2802 but , it is real close in speed and acceleration!

[STEELCITYFIREBIRD]

Originally Posted by TedRamAirII

When its spinning tires and getting sideways, and the driver doesn't have good control skills, they think its "scary fast". But when it has traction, it will be a dog.

Everyone wants to burn rubber.... except a Driver.

[1967Tempest]

Originally Posted by STEELCITYFIREBIRD

Everyone wants to burn rubber.... except a Driver.

True. Gets expensive fast. Yeah since I dont drag race, dont care about 1/4 mile times. I am hemorrhaging money to try and get out of NJ. No extra for track time. Even as close to Island as I am.

While I appreciate the conversations. She idles fine, pulls hard, doesnt smoke, runs cool and is reliable.

Not to mention the fact that I have never legally drag raced, it very well could be a 13 second car, but with me at 16 second car.

So dynoing an engine means nothing without 1/4 mile times. Got it.