[SWEETJUDGE]

Im helping a friend with a 69 convert GTO & hes asking me the size of the front sway bar.

Does anyone know off the top of thier heads??????

[Lloyd-TX]

All '69 GTO's used a 1" front bar, GM PN 401194.

FYI, that bar was also used in various '70-'72 non-GTO A-body applications. All '70-'72 GTO's used a 1 1/8" bar.

[SWEETJUDGE]

THANKS A TON

[gtohurstjudge]

The one inch bar was standard in 69, but there was an option
that provided a larger diameter bar. One of the original 69 GTO's I parted
out had this heavy duty bar and I transferred it to my car years ago. I always
have had hell getting sway bar bushings for it, they always want to sell me the bushings for the one inch bar.

[Lloyd-TX]

Originally Posted by gtohurstjudge

The one inch bar was standard in 69, but there was an option
that provided a larger diameter bar. One of the original 69 GTO's I parted
out had this heavy duty bar and I transferred it to my car years ago. I always
have had hell getting sway bar bushings for it, they always want to sell me the bushings for the one inch bar.

Someone must have swapped that front bar out before you parted the car out, as there were no optional sway bars available on a GTO, regardless of the model year. In '69 a 1" bar was used, and '70-'72 a 1 1/8" bar was used.

[gtohurstjudge]

There was a heavy duty suspension option in 69. I believe the
bigger bar was part of that option, along with firmer springs. It was not
a common option....few cars were built with it. The car I took the front
sway bar off of was a very late build 69 Judge hardtop that was totally stock
no mods whatsoever. At the time the car was only five years old. It was
parted out due to collision damage. It was a special order car loaded with
unusual options like power disc brakes, tilt wheel, and A/C.

[Lloyd-TX]

Spring rates were higher and shock absorber valving was firmer, but the sway bar size remained @ 1" when the firm ride option was added.

[gtohurstjudge]

I found the option in my factory options brochure last night. The heavy duty
shocks and springs option you are referring to is code 622-UPC F40. The option I am referring to is called the Ride and Handling package code 621-
UPC Y96. It includes springs and shocks that are even stiffer than code 622 and a larger diameter front sway bar. There are many obscure options you could get in 1969, that most people have never seen. While going through
the brochure last night I came across several options I have never seen
in 36 years of being intensely involved in the 69 GTO hobby. There was an option for a 61 Amp alternator, as well as an internal regulated 55 amp alternator with no external regulator. There were hood pins available for
all models except Grand Prix. I have only seen one GTO with hood
pins from the factory (a silver Ram 4 convertible loaded out with everything imaginable), but you could order hood pins for your Bonneville if you so desired! Here's an option I bet you never heard of......How about code 611-
UPC T42? This is an option for the ram air hood on the GTO and Firebird 400
even if you don't have the ram air engine!!!!! The option states that this option is standard if you have the Ram 3 or Ram 4 engines, but you could
order Ram Air on your 350 horse GTO if you ordered UPC-T42! How about
option code 588-UPC C57? This option is called power-flow ventilation. With
this option, your car has a blower fan ahead of each outlet to improve the flow of air coming out of the ducts! I've never seen this, but there it is, right
in the showroom brochure awaiting your order!

[Steve Hoog]

HAHA

[Lloyd-TX]

I have researched all three of my Pontiac MPC's, and I stand by my initial post - the 401194 1" front bar was standard and the only available front sway bar on a '69 GTO and Judge.

Now, that said, where the confusion may come from is that one COULD order a firm ride and handling suspension option on ANY '69 A-body. According to my MPC's the standard front bar on a non-GTO '69 A-body was 15/16" diameter, PN 398499, but was upped to the 1" GTO bar when ordered with the firm ride option.

[gtohurstjudge]

I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this topic. There is
no doubt in my mind that the sway bar on that car is the one it was built
with. The car was absolutely stone stock with skinny tires, 14x6 ralley 2's
etc. I don't believe the owner would have left everything stone stock and
then went out searching for a thicker sway bar for his otherwise stone stock Judge. The car was a very very late build car. Perhaps it got the sway bar
intended for the 70 model GTO when it was built.

[Steve Hoog]

Even if you couldn't get the big bar in 69, to me it's just not that important a fact. I took one off a 70 GTO and put in on my 69; because it needed to be there. Put the rear arms and bar on my 69 too; it my car is a lot happier for it.

[robz]

a build sheet may help confirm your point, gtohurstjudge...do u have one?

[bulletpruf]

Curious to hear about this, too. Believe one of my cars has the ride and handling package, but not sure which one. Don't have the PHS with me over here.

Scott

[Lloyd-TX]

Originally Posted by gtohurstjudge

I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this topic. There is
no doubt in my mind that the sway bar on that car is the one it was built
with. The car was absolutely stone stock with skinny tires, 14x6 ralley 2's
etc. I don't believe the owner would have left everything stone stock and
then went out searching for a thicker sway bar for his otherwise stone stock Judge. The car was a very very late build car. Perhaps it got the sway bar
intended for the 70 model GTO when it was built.

When you have a chance, measure the diameter of that bar. Easy to do using open-end wrenches as go / no-go gauges.

If it's 1 1/8", then it's most likely a '70-'72 GTO bar.

[the70OOJudge]

Originally Posted by gtohurstjudge

The one inch bar was standard in 69, but there was an option
that provided a larger diameter bar. One of the original 69 GTO's I parted
out had this heavy duty bar and I transferred it to my car years ago. I always
have had hell getting sway bar bushings for it, they always want to sell me the bushings for the one inch bar.

Im having a heck of a time finding the bushings and brackets for my 70 Judge with the 1 1/8th bar?? Every book my parts guy has shows 1" as the largest grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr... Anyone know where I can find a set?

[TEG]

Couple things. My 1969 has a 1.25" front stabilizer bar. My car is not a survivor car and very likely was changed. But, I like it. To be honest, I thought it was original but I am not about to convice Lloyd of that!

To those of you who are looking, here are some sources:

The Parts Place has poly 1.25 bushings and other sizes for the front stabilizer bar. Until recently, they were available with just the bushing. Now, however, the bushing comes complete with the bracket and they are $16.00 for the pair. I believe that 1/8 are also available.

In Line Tube now sells individual bushings for bars larger than 1". They are on the website and in the catalogue. As I recall, they are $6.00 a piece. Larger and smaller sizes are also available.

So, where does a 1.25" bar come from? No, it is not 1 1/8...


T.

[TEG]

Just found this on line. Perhaps those of you looking for bushings or other parts might look into the Trans Am section. I can see how it would get confused

Gimme a Big Front Bar For My Car
The GTO front stabilizer bar measured .938-inch in diameter from 1964 to 1968, 1-inch in 1969 and 1.125 inches from 1970 to 1972. The Second Gen. Trans Am 1.25-inch front stabilizer bar is a direct bolt in for '64-72 A-bodies and can be had for a song at any swap meet.

[Silver Judge]

Wow, this is interesting,

GTOHurstJudge, can you scan that brochure with a good scanner and post it up here?
If you don't have a scanner, heck, consider going to Kinko's. You can rent time on a PC there and scan stuff for next to nothing, and save things on a flash keychain drive @ 300 kb per image.

I'd love to see this, I've only been in the Pontiac hobby intensely for a few years and have looked at every factory brochure I can find on Judges but apparently not the one that you have

[motorcitymusclecar]

all 69 Judge front bars were 1" - it says in on the judge info card and in the magazine ad specs from the 60's and all my judges have the 1" - every post help to confirm