Pontiac Enthusiast Road Test Mach 1 vs 2004 GTO - Page 2 - PY Online Forums

Mr_GTO · #21 11-26-2003, 08:47 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by rugratman:
100 horsepower short ?

What the ..........?

That's criminal.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Did you even read my responses in this thread?

pierced mikey · #22 11-26-2003, 11:08 AM

Yes rugratman, didn't you know Bob....er....CHris is the resident 2004 expert?

Nothing is real if you don't believe in yourself-Rocky Balboa

In order to be old and wise, you must first be young and foolish

SuperQuad · #23 11-26-2003, 01:04 PM

Way to go Tom - you know you can't say anything negative about the new GTO whether its true or not. Mr. GTO will be there to swoop down like an eagle on ya! And everyone knows you can't test a car in the heat or the cold or in the rain, sleet or snow. Should have been an indoor test on a rubber surface at 72 degrees and since the GTO weighs more it should've gotten a head start.

"I'm not one to argue, BUT......."

Rugratman · #24 11-26-2003, 01:29 PM

My only point is :
If they say it's got 350 Hp, it should have 350 HP right off the dealers lot, in July or February.
Any car can be modified for extra horses.

Are those " Special Tuners " going to be on the dealers lot when you pick it up ?

Don't get me wrong, I am very, very happy that a car in America is made with a V8 and rear wheel drive. Even happier that it is a Pontiac.
I'm all for the new GTO. It should be a blast to drive. If it's even 25 Hp short, they should say that. With modifications could mean anything.

SCOTT ESTERLE · #25 11-26-2003, 01:29 PM

I beleive the rated horsepower is engine horsepower & the horsepower that was done on the Dyno was rear wheel horsepower which is different. That's why there was a 100 horsepower diff.

Mr_GTO · #26 11-26-2003, 01:36 PM

Rugrat, it does. I just posted it for you. You fail to recognize it. Did you see what the HP it was putting out and what it is rated at?

Pilot cars are MUCH different than production cars. Tom should be able to tell you that. He and Ford had a similar experience with the Ford GT when the pre production cars were getting beat by stock ZO6's before the computer tune issues were straighted out.

The reason it went to the tuner was because it was painfully obvious the car had problems. Problem was it was a pilot car, not a production car. Standard TA/Z28 cars with an auto put down 290RWHP. That GTO put down 260? Obviously with 30 less RWHP there was something wrong. Anyone who has ever owned or know anything about a LS1 would realize this. See the MPH and weight of the Motor Trend car? See my formula results? Sounds a bit UNDERRATED to me.

Rugratman · #27 11-26-2003, 01:39 PM

That's a good point Scott, That means the drivetrain could use some " Special Tuners " also.

If I could afford one, I would have one.

I hope it corners better than my battleship of a GTO.

My mom just got the new Bonneville. It really is a awesome car. She is in heaven. I hope it's like that but just faster. The Bonneville is pretty damn fast.

Rugratman · #28 11-26-2003, 01:42 PM

So they test a lemon ? For a test to be published ?

That's also criminal. WHo's in charge over there ?

Mr_GTO · #29 11-26-2003, 01:49 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by rugratman:
So they test a lemon ? For a test to be published ?

That's also criminal. WHo's in charge over there ?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't think they went into the test thinking it was a lemon. It wasn't really. Just had the wrong computer in it. And in EFI speak, that's a bad thing. It might have been on purpose by Pontiac so magazines didn't end up killing the car.

Smaller magazines like GM High Tech performance, once a production GTO is available will test the car. It won't happen for a while though. All the GTO's tested by the major mags were tested in Australia.

Rugratman · #30 11-26-2003, 01:54 PM

Good point.

Goathead · #31 11-26-2003, 03:44 PM

Mr GTO, you are correct, it does have problems...it's Ugly, Slow and not a GTO...finally we agree...

http://www.dannys65gto.com

http://kurtspontiac.homestead.com/dannys65gto.html

Mr_GTO · #32 11-26-2003, 03:49 PM

13.6 from a bone stock preproduction GTO is slow?

Danny, don't quit your day job. Comedian just ain't cutting it.

KandRGTO · #33 11-26-2003, 04:26 PM

O.K. here we go.My brochure for the new goat says 350 h.p.,the most ever in a GTO.How is that when there are 360 and 370 h.p. rated GTOs ? What did I miss ?

1967 GTO Now under construction for spring '04 usage ! Stand clear of spinning wrenches and watch out for flying debris!

Mr_GTO · #34 11-26-2003, 04:47 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by KandRGTO:
O.K. here we go.My brochure for the new goat says 350 h.p.,the most ever in a GTO.How is that when there are 360 and 370 h.p. rated GTOs ? What did I miss ?

1967 GTO Now under construction for spring '04 usage ! Stand clear of spinning wrenches and watch out for flying debris! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Old numbers, until 71 were gross rated. 72 and on are NET numbers. That is why.

Brian Baker · #35 11-26-2003, 04:56 PM

Sorry, Chris. I'm with Tom on this one.

I didn't even bother to read the entire article, because I knew up front it would be a fluff piece for the GTO. I went straight to the dragstrip results, and the GTO's number were not impressive. Not even what I would call lackluster.

Pilot car, Schmilot car. Put something out there that will run mid 13's @ 103-105 out of the box or shut the f@$k up. That's what stock LS1's in the now defunct F-bodies will do.

Dare I say it, but if this test is any sign of things to come, Ford has once again kicked GM square in the nuts.

I'm starting to think now that the Viper was actually some engineers idea that Lutz stole and ran with.

Marty Phipps · #36 11-26-2003, 05:26 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by goatseeker:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR> If Ford actually builds a Mustang that is similar to the concept car...... I might just have to buy 1 <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Ditto Marty - but I'll keep my '66 GTO!

C'mon Tom - how about some 'insider scoop' on the '05 concept car. We won't tell anybody where we heard it!

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Ditto!!!!!!!
I'll keep my bird.
But I would consider selling the Chevelle for a down payment on the 05 car if it's like the concept Mustang

higgins · #37 11-26-2003, 05:27 PM

is this the same magazine that stated in the Nov/Dec issue that this car ranked #8 above the 71, 72,and the 73GTO in an all time favorite poll, when this car had not even hit the AMERICAN streets yet. Hmmmm.

Tom Vaught · #38 11-26-2003, 05:47 PM

Quote:

"Dare I say it, but if this test is any sign of things to come, Ford has once again kicked GM square in the nuts."

Yes, The Mach 1 shaker scoop is functional and
works. Yes, the "tweaked" LS-1 and LS-6 cars are
much faster as are the "tweaked" Mustangs.

Yes, the calibration was obviously not right.

Yes, the test was tainted by the "tweaking" on
the Holden and not on the Mach 1.

I honestly was hoping the test would have been MUCH better in terms of preparation on the GTO.

Yes, Chris, is a very loyal GM guy who loves the
LS-1 and LS-6 engines.

Yes, I kind of remember how Chris and the GTO were
going to go Mustang hunting and going to kick Ford in the nuts, but ***** happens even when some
of the best Stocker drivers are driving the GTO.

So now we are even Chris, don't give me any more
crap about my V-10 Mustang being a Pre-production
vehicle vs your production Cameros and Firebirds.

Obviously the PREP on my V-10 NA engine (600 hp) is a little better than the prep on the GTO.

Next item:

Quote:

"I'm starting to think now that the Viper was actually some engineers idea that Lutz stole and ran with."

Not an engineer, but a RACER named Shelby created
the Viper for Chrysler. Why the Viper and the Cobra share the same "name"

Lutz just took the credit as usual. Did I ever
tell you the one about how when I first came to Ford Truck how Lutz called a major meeting and
had each department explain their product plans
for the next 5 years. Two weeks later Lutz went
to Chrysler. Ford should have pressed criminal
charges against him for that one like GM did to
the Volkswagen guy!

Tom V.

Brian Baker · #39 11-26-2003, 05:58 PM

Ouch! Chris that's gotta' sting (LOL). Good point, Tom.

Lutz is starting to sound more and more like every other CEO in the corporate world. An opportunist. Get mine while I can and screw the company. Only problem for Lutz now is, it doesn't appear that GM has as good of engineers as Ford or Chrysler does right now. Hopefully for GM, that will change soon, but I doubt it under Lutz's watch.

bonneville Joe · #40 11-26-2003, 05:58 PM

I've seen 2 Mach 1s here in town and I saw one of them tear the rubber off the rear tires one afternoon. They look, drive, and sound as badass as a Mach 1 should. The GTO looks like a Pepsi fleet vehicle and now seems to perform like one too.

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