Pontiac Enthusiast Road Test Mach 1 vs 2004 GTO

[gtoguy1967]

I think they should have to get past the truck before they can be called worthy enough to race the Mach 1
If it runs 104 in the 1/4 decent et's cna't be far behind.
Don

some times when you race with squirrels you get your nuts cracked!

[78 GHOST]

Someone once said: "Never fly the "-A" model of anything!

Hopefully this car will get a little worked out as things go along. Until then, looks like Ford still holds the candle for the only serious performance car in America.

____________________________________
Much love out to my Peeps

[Goathead]

Mr_GTO... ...get a life and I won't quit my day job....



http://www.dannys65gto.com

http://kurtspontiac.homestead.com/dannys65gto.html

[Mr_GTO]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Brian Baker:
Sorry, Chris. I'm with Tom on this one.

I didn't even bother to read the entire article, because I knew up front it would be a fluff piece for the GTO. I went straight to the dragstrip results, and the GTO's number were not impressive. Not even what I would call lackluster.

Pilot car, Schmilot car. Put something out there that will run mid 13's @ 103-105 out of the box or shut the f@$k up. That's what stock LS1's in the now defunct F-bodies will do.

Dare I say it, but if this test is any sign of things to come, Ford has once again kicked GM square in the nuts.

I'm starting to think now that the Viper was actually some engineers idea that Lutz stole and ran with.

http://kurtspontiac.homestead.com/files/bbaker.jpg <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


I guess you failed or didn't want to reply to the Motor Trend Article. Funny, neither did Tom. Why is that for both of you? GTO ran a 13.6 it's first time out with the GTO, Mach1 ran a 13.8 it's first time out with Motor Trend. But yet either of you want to talk about that one. In fact Tom didn't address any of the facts I presented. Oh sorry, he did mention the calibration but failed to explain why the car would perform so badly with the wrong calibration despite he knows full well what that means for any EFI car. Look at the member here with the EFI 462 that runs 10 flat. It didn't when he first started. It does now.

Tom, I never gave you crap about your car being preproduction, I said it was a one off. It's called NOT IN PRODUCTION. If Ford makes a V10 and they can afford to make it, props to them. I personally don't see it happening. The Truck V10 hasn't exactly been a stellar seller.

Lutz never took credit for creating the GTO. He takes credit and is fully do for getting the best RWD Coup GM made and making sure it was available here in the United States. How come Ford hasn't done that with the Aussie Falcon tom?

[sdbob]

I am not overly enthused with the styling of the new GTO but I am willing to wait. If the story about marketing is true,(for the BMW typecrowd) GM is pulling another one for the books. I am surprized someone didn't 'test' the car before the mag got it? Some of you may like PaulZ, my dealings were kind of well. Since my 1 SD is 'all'original and Pete M was doing drag tests on original Muscle Cars I 'volunteered' at Norwalk to do one. I ran it about 4 times got the results brought the car to the PE tent and Paul just turned his back on me and later I found out he cut the story so Pete told me. I still subcribe to PE but feel now HPP has better articles.Sorry just venting.

[bonneville Joe]

Muscle Car


Family Car



_____________________________
Foolproof and Sucka free since 1979.

[Brian Baker]

Chris, I don't read MotorTrend. Guys that drive with both hands on the wheel read MotorTrend. Was it an actual GTO that they tested, or was it a Monaro GTO from Australia?

The reason I am bent on mid 13's at 103+ MPH is because that's where the LS1 F-bodies ran right off the showroom floor. Fellow Outlaw Jason Rogers owns a stock LS1 T/A convertible that will run 13.60's all day in 90+ degree heat, and has run as quick as 13.40's in cooler weather. why couldn't Pontiac have given PE magazine a test GTO that could do the same?

Chris, Tom is dead nuts on with his needling you on your comments toward his V10 Mustang. You screamed bloody murder that it was a prototype/pre-production car and it was irrelevant that it ran so well. Well, this new GTO is pre=production, and in my opinion, it's a turd. Yes, it may handle better than the F-body did, but the acceleration capabilities should be equal to, or surpass the F-body.

I hope they get the computer reprogrammed before the rest hit the streets.

[Aeolian-X]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Brian Baker:
Chris, I don't read MotorTrend. Guys that drive with both hands on the wheel read MotorTrend. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

LOL! They also wear Dockers to bed and sleep with their portfolio under their pillow.

- AX

FREEDOM! It's What's For Dinner!

[judge_jury_executioner_69]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Tom Vaught:
As usual PE put out a fine magazine this month.

Everyone will say I am crying "Sour Grapes" but I have a few questions and comments:

1) Very Truthful article (for the most part).

a) Compare a 281 cid engine with a 346 cid engine
so about 65 cubic inches more for the Pontiac GTO

b) Engine rated at 350 HP for the GTO and only made 259.1 so where is Mr GTO with his crap about
Ford lying to the customers about Ford's Mustang
HP numbers when the 2004 GTO is 100 hp short!

c) Ford Mustang rated at 305 and testers say more like 320 actual.

d) Mustang received by testers and UNTOUCHED by anyone during the testing.

e) GTO received by testers and cannot get out of
its way (repeatedly spanked by Mustang in initial
testing). 14.7 ets vs low 14s for Ford.

f) GTO taken to well known LS-1/LS-6 tuners where
they trick the coolant temp sensor to make the computer go rich, ice the intake and mass air meter after they wipe the factory calibration so
the GTO computer is starting from scratch. No
tweaks were made to the Mustang (BONE STOCK)! The
Mach 1 would have passed emissions testing, we all
know the GTO would not after those mods.

g) Complain that GTO had bad gas but say the GTO engine pulls hard about 20 mph. BAD GAS does not
act that way. Bad gas runs bad at all speeds so
feeble excuse there. Didn't both cars get the same gas? Should have to be fair test.

h) Had Pontiac drivers drive both the Mustang and the GTO, naturally no bias there by the Pontiac
crowd. Drag racers not normally known for driving
a pylon course and is obvious from pics that cars
are in the wrong spot on the track for each pylon.

i) Will all of these tweaks on the GTO the Mach 1 Mustang runs 102 mph in the quarter vs 98 mph with less horsepower (interesting). Comment is
made that the Mustang has a balky shifter so no
one can drive a Manual Trans any more? Interesting
as a Mustang driver might have run much faster when driving the car.

j) Mach 1 tweaked cars are running low 12s out of
the box vs a tweaked GTO that runs 14.05?

The writers even go so far as to point out that the original 64 GTO test was so bad they had to put out specially tuned GTOs (421 engines ) to
make good advertising claims.

This test also looks really bad when comparing APPLES to APPLES without tweaking.

They do make a comment about how they are going to stay away from 400 hp Cobras. (Picking on cripples, just like the old days and staying away
from the fast cars.

Just like the old times after all!

Tom V.

i LOVE it. yo uhave to understand i have a big piss on ford sticker on my back glass ( about 1 foot wide and maybe 2 foot tall ) had it "custom" made. im not a ford guy at all but i HATE the new GTO. if they didnt want a retro look why call it the GTO ?

Greatest Of All Time

[SJMule]

Isn't MotorTrend owned by the French?

Mule

1973 Grand Prix SJ455
1969 GTO 428

[70GTOJUDGE]

This is one of the most entertaining posts I've read!

--------------------------------
Why live in a box when you can live in a circle...

[Mr_GTO]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Brian Baker:
Chris, I don't read MotorTrend. Guys that drive with both hands on the wheel read MotorTrend. Was it an actual GTO that they tested, or was it a Monaro GTO from Australia?

The reason I am bent on mid 13's at 103+ MPH is because that's where the LS1 F-bodies ran right off the showroom floor. Fellow Outlaw Jason Rogers owns a stock LS1 T/A convertible that will run 13.60's all day in 90+ degree heat, and has run as quick as 13.40's in cooler weather. why couldn't Pontiac have given PE magazine a test GTO that could do the same?

Chris, Tom is dead nuts on with his needling you on your comments toward his V10 Mustang. You screamed bloody murder that it was a prototype/pre-production car and it was irrelevant that it ran so well. Well, this new GTO is pre=production, and in my opinion, it's a turd. Yes, it may handle better than the F-body did, but the acceleration capabilities should be equal to, or surpass the F-body.

I hope they get the computer reprogrammed before the rest hit the streets.

http://kurtspontiac.homestead.com/files/bbaker.jpg <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Brian, maybe you should start then. Because that is where the GTO ran a 13.6 and the Mach1 ran a 13.8 in it's first tests. Brian, I have no idea why any mag would accept a pre production pilot car to test. PE got suckerd. Probably because they didn't want to get scooped by HPP and they couldn't afford to send writers to Australia like MT, RT and CD to test the cars there.

Brian, I gave tom guff because it wasn't a production car slated for production. It was a concept engineering excersize. If I saw a test of a LS6 GTO I would say the same exact thing about that car too.

http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...=291603012&p=5

[Bill Holm]

Very interesting thread. ALL of it.

It didn't do anything to cause reconsideration of my anti-Monaro feelings, though. Frankly, GM blew a golden opportunity when they decided to revive the GTO name. It coulda/shoulda been done MUCH differently.

Also it will do nothing to divert PMD from the Oldsmobile direction - IF that's the ultimate plan...



------------------------------
You can check out any time you like,
But you can never leave.

[Mr_GTO]

http://www.newagegto.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=879

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Branden Farthing
Editor-NewAgeGTO.com

A rumor has been started on the internet, that automatic equipped GTO’s were having some sort of computer issue that was causing acceleration problems. I spoke with Pontiac today about these concerns, and got to what I feel is the bottom of the issue, so here is the scoop. All GTO’s that have shown up thus far in magazine tests and such were part of the pilot run of about 25 GTO’s. In other words, they are not actual production cars that people will ever buy, instead they are test vehicles which are built for the purpose of showing the media and working out any problems before real production. Due to the all the powertrain and exhaust changes that GM made in converting the Monaro to the GTO, an issue arose concerning the relocation of a wiring harness that among other things was integral to the traction control system. Basically the new location was causing the wiring harness was becoming pinched or damaged in some way, which caused the traction control system to act erratically under hard acceleration. The common malfunction from the wiring issue was that it caused throttle relaxer portion of the three-stage TCS system to kick in too early when the car was floored. This obviously caused the computer to cut power to the engine and hurt acceleration numbers. This problem only affected automatic PILOT GTO’s and has been corrected for all production GTO’s, including the ones already on US soil. To our knowledge, the only magazine that tested a car with the wiring problem according to Pontiac was Pontiac Enthusiast. Again, please remember this does not affect production GTO’s and that it is common to have issues with pilot cars, that is why they make them.

Also on another note, the second shipment of GTO’s has arrived in San Diego, which leaves the total in the states now at over 900!

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Tom, figured you would find that interesting.