Ugly, bland and over priced.

[Transam Stripper]

I want one!!! You think the GTO's are invisible at light. Try a '07 Trailblazer SS.
This is a Bad A$$ SUV. I have suprised a few Mustangs and Trans Am's with this ride.
And let's not even talk about the Honda's.

[Mr_GTO]

Originally Posted by Dragncar

Yeah,the sbc Pontiacs of the 80s were not real Pontiacs,true as can be.
The heart of any car is the engine.
No problem with the G8.
And no everyone who has bought a new GTO is not aware that they are not real GTOs.
Lots of those people.
If even Pontiac (PMD) did not understand it was not a issue,not haveing a real Pontiac engine.Why did they have the Butlers do a clean F.I. install of a real Pontiac V8 in a mid 80s Firebird to keep,show off.Sort of like what could have been,should have been had the decision not been made for to pull the plug on the Pontiac V8.

So the '64 Tempest with a Chevy I6 isn't a real Pontiac? HOw about a '73 Ventura with the Olds 350? Or the '79 TA with a 403 Olds?

Your arguments are a joke.

[David Jones]

Originally Posted by Mr_GTO

So the '64 Tempest with a Chevy I6 isn't a real Pontiac? HOw about a '73 Ventura with the Olds 350? Or the '79 TA with a 403 Olds?

Your arguments are a joke.

Like you, he is entitled to an opinion.

[Mr_GTO]

Originally Posted by David Jones

Like you, he is entitled to an opinion.

His opinion FAILS based on his own definition and my examples.

[Dragncar]

Yes THAT Humbolt County.And I will gaurentee that is is a more beautiful place than 90% of most people live.
I live and breath Pontiacs,as real a Pontiac person and a GTO owner as you can get.First car was a 69GTO(still have it,bad shape though,coastal air) bought it with money I made as a busboy in high school.Choice was between that and a 69 Firerbird.Never even gave it a secound thought about buying anything other than a Pontiac.
People like me,will to spend thier money on the new aftermarket Pontiac parts are why we have the new parts we have today.Making some real strides in our ould engine.
The new gto owners who think it is a real GTO are almost like the Big Chief Pontiac BBC guys who think of it as a Pontiac.Just because it says Pontiac its a Pontiac.Dont think so.
The Venturas and Firebirds with Olds in them are the crummy ones.First thing I would do to one of them if I had one would be jerk out the Olds and put a Pontiac in it.Almost bought a 77TA,that was the plan.
The 64 Tempests were cool cars.They did not have our V8 pulled out and some other V8 shoved in.The best I6s were the Pontiac OHC 6s.Those were heads made from the technology left over from Pontiacs plan to make OHC 428s back in the 60s.You see,Chevorlette would not allow Pontiac to make a 500HP SOHC428,could not have that.Like they would not allow Pontiac to have a 500HP RAV 400,which by the way came very close to going into production.All set to go,plug pulled by Chevy.
That OHC 6 heads were all that Pontiac was allowed to use from the OHCV8 program.That OHC stuff was supposed to go on 428s.
Many great Pontiac ideas were snuffed out by Chevy.And the LS1 is the new corperate or "chevy" engine.
So now way in he!! do I accept a non Pontiac car(Monero) a non Pontiac engine (LS1) no real Pontiac ideas,with the new chevy engine in it as a real GTO.
It is my own opinion.But I am not the only one.If it were not a issue every Pontiac person would accept them as GTOs.

[robscar]

Dragncar's attitude and probable treatment of anyone with a new GTO are some of the very reasons that a lot of the owners of the new GTO's will not join GTOAA. Bigoted attitudes and poor treatment by owners of older GTO's. I know this is just one person, but you know the old saying. One bad apple,,,,,

[MoonShiner]

Originally Posted by Dragncar

Yes THAT Humbolt County.And I will gaurentee that is is a more beautiful place than 90% of most people live.
I live and breath Pontiacs,as real a Pontiac person and a GTO owner as you can get.First car was a 69GTO(still have it,bad shape though,coastal air) bought it with money I made as a busboy in high school.Choice was between that and a 69 Firerbird.Never even gave it a secound thought about buying anything other than a Pontiac.
People like me,will to spend thier money on the new aftermarket Pontiac parts are why we have the new parts we have today.Making some real strides in our ould engine.
The new gto owners who think it is a real GTO are almost like the Big Chief Pontiac BBC guys who think of it as a Pontiac.Just because it says Pontiac its a Pontiac.Dont think so.
The Venturas and Firebirds with Olds in them are the crummy ones.First thing I would do to one of them if I had one would be jerk out the Olds and put a Pontiac in it.Almost bought a 77TA,that was the plan.
The 64 Tempests were cool cars.They did not have our V8 pulled out and some other V8 shoved in.The best I6s were the Pontiac OHC 6s.Those were heads made from the technology left over from Pontiacs plan to make OHC 428s back in the 60s.You see,Chevorlette would not allow Pontiac to make a 500HP SOHC428,could not have that.Like they would not allow Pontiac to have a 500HP RAV 400,which by the way came very close to going into production.All set to go,plug pulled by Chevy.
That OHC 6 heads were all that Pontiac was allowed to use from the OHCV8 program.That OHC stuff was supposed to go on 428s.
Many great Pontiac ideas were snuffed out by Chevy.And the LS1 is the new corperate or "chevy" engine.
So now way in he!! do I accept a non Pontiac car(Monero) a non Pontiac engine (LS1) no real Pontiac ideas,with the new chevy engine in it as a real GTO.
It is my own opinion.But I am not the only one.If it were not a issue every Pontiac person would accept them as GTOs.

[red70goat]

Depreciation:...... "Monaro" wins!


[QUOTE=87LC2;3379828]

Handling...they suck!..........."Monaro" wins!
Braking...they suck!............."Monaro" wins!
Drive-ability...they suck!......."Monaro" wins!
Reliability...they suck!..........."Monaro" wins!
Fuel economy...they suck!....."Monaro" wins!
Comfort...they suck!............."Monaro" wins!
Safety...they suck!..............."Monaro" wins!
Aerodynamics...they suck!....."Monaro" wins!
Top speed...they suck!........."Monaro" wins!
Acceleration...they suck!......"Monaro" wins!

This is all stock for stock........"Monaro" wins!
QUOTE]

[Mr_GTO]

Originally Posted by Dragncar

Yes THAT Humbolt County.And I will gaurentee that is is a more beautiful place than 90% of most people live.
I live and breath Pontiacs,as real a Pontiac person and a GTO owner as you can get.First car was a 69GTO(still have it,bad shape though,coastal air) bought it with money I made as a busboy in high school.Choice was between that and a 69 Firerbird.Never even gave it a secound thought about buying anything other than a Pontiac.
People like me,will to spend thier money on the new aftermarket Pontiac parts are why we have the new parts we have today.Making some real strides in our ould engine.
The new gto owners who think it is a real GTO are almost like the Big Chief Pontiac BBC guys who think of it as a Pontiac.Just because it says Pontiac its a Pontiac.Dont think so.
The Venturas and Firebirds with Olds in them are the crummy ones.First thing I would do to one of them if I had one would be jerk out the Olds and put a Pontiac in it.Almost bought a 77TA,that was the plan.
The 64 Tempests were cool cars.They did not have our V8 pulled out and some other V8 shoved in.The best I6s were the Pontiac OHC 6s.Those were heads made from the technology left over from Pontiacs plan to make OHC 428s back in the 60s.You see,Chevorlette would not allow Pontiac to make a 500HP SOHC428,could not have that.Like they would not allow Pontiac to have a 500HP RAV 400,which by the way came very close to going into production.All set to go,plug pulled by Chevy.
That OHC 6 heads were all that Pontiac was allowed to use from the OHCV8 program.That OHC stuff was supposed to go on 428s.
Many great Pontiac ideas were snuffed out by Chevy.And the LS1 is the new corperate or "chevy" engine.
So now way in he!! do I accept a non Pontiac car(Monero) a non Pontiac engine (LS1) no real Pontiac ideas,with the new chevy engine in it as a real GTO.
It is my own opinion.But I am not the only one.If it were not a issue every Pontiac person would accept them as GTOs.

Again, address the CARS with NON Pontiac engines that were made from 1964-1979 when Pontiac was at their "Peak". All I see in your post is BLA BLA BLA....again, address the FACTS.

[87LC2]

Originally Posted by red70goat

Depreciation:...... "Monaro" wins!

Haha
Welcome back!

[87LC2]

It's funny, I sold my 1969 GTO and have recieved a few calls from the new owner.

It seems after a few months the master cylinder started to leak, master cylinder is 5 years old.
A few months after that the engine ate a cam and lifter, engine is 6 years old.

Great car....

[Mr_GTO]

Originally Posted by 87LC2

It's funny, I sold my 1969 GTO and have recieved a few calls from the new owner.

It seems after a few months the master cylinder started to leak, master cylinder is 5 years old.
A few months after that the engine ate a cam and lifter, engine is 6 years old.

Great car....

But old pontiacs are made of gold and never break and are uber reliable.....or so it seems from the so called "Old Timers" here....

[RandyW]

Don't lump "old timers" in one basket, I'm considerably older than the main agitant here in this thread, and I say no such thing! I love my old Pontiacs, but I drive an LSx powered pickup every day.
Victorian furniture is beautiful to look at but I don't want to sit on it every day.

[toomanybirds]

Originally Posted by Dragncar

Sooooo,new gtos are not real GTOs,they are Moneros with Chevy engines.

The Generation III V-8 engine first appeared in in 1997 in the Corvette. There were two aluminum block versions, LS1 and LS6. The Gen III was used in many other cars from 1998-2004 including Firebird, Camaro, Cadillac CTS-V, and the 04 GTO. Cast iron block versions of the Gen III were used in GM trucks.

The Generation IV V-8 engine appeared in 2004 as a variation of the Gen III. Increased displacement was available, up to 7.0 liters. It has had several variations including:
L76 6.0 liter (Pontiac G8)
LS2 6.0 liter (Corvette, CTS-V, SSR, and GTO)
LS3 6.2 liter (Corvette, G8 GXP)
LS4 5.3 liter (Impala SS, Monte Carlo SS, Buick LaCrosse, and Pontiac Grand Prix GXP)
LS7 7.0 liter (Corvette Z06)
LS9 6.2 liter (Corvette ZR1)

Generation III and IV engines have nothing in common with the Chevrolet "small block" except the same bore spacing of 4.4". There is no parts interchange. The name Chevrolet does not appear anywhere on the engine. It is not a "Chevy" engine or a "small block" engine, and to refer to it as such is simply incorrect.

The modern Pontiac V-8 first appeared in Pontiac cars AND in GMC trucks in 1955. But, we don't call it a GMC engine do we?

I am a lifelong Pontiac guy. I have had countless different Pontiacs ranging from 1955 to 2009. Pontiac built some awesome engines during their run, but it ended in 1981 (really 1979). My newest car is a 2009 G8 GT. I enjoy driving the G8 as well as my Pontiacs with traditional Pontiac engines. I appreciate the old and the new Pontiacs for what they are.

To bash the new cars and engines simply means you haven't had the opportunity or the open mind to experience and appreciate them.

JMO

[Dick Boneske]

toomanybirds,
Right on!!! Add the straight sixes in the '64 and up Tempests, '79 Firebirds with Olds 403, '82-'98 Firebirds with various SBC V8's, Olds 305 V8's in mid to late 80's Pontiac wagons, and others, our Pontiacs used many different engines than the traditional 1955-1981 Pontiac V8. And, don't forget that Olds, Buick, and GMC all used traditional Pontiac V8's at times.

I also agree with your comment on the newer Gen III & Gen IV GM engines. They are awesome engines and a pleasure to drive.

If GM decided to allow all divisions to keep their own engines, there would be only one GM car left--Chevrolet. Pontiac would have had to redesign the traditional V8 extensively to compete with newer engines, just as a redesign of the SBC was needed. I love those old Pontiac V8's, but they're now almost a 50 year-old design.

As toomanybirds said, it's too bad you bashers haven't had the open mind or opportunity to own one of the Gen III or IV V8's. I sure am glad our GTOAA and POCI clubs are open-minded enough to allow Pontiacs newer than 1981 in their membership. If they didn't, turnout at Pontiac shows and conventions would be pretty sparse by now and would get worse in future years. Kind of like Studebaker, Oldsmobile, AMC, etc. C'mon, let's strive for open minds on this!!

[toomanybirds]

Often overlooked and unknown is that the 64 and 65 Tempest 215 cid 6 cylinder engine was indeed a Pontiac engine.

It had some parts interchange with the Chevrolet 194 cid 6 cyl, but the 215 was only used in the Pontiac Tempest. The engine block had "PONTIAC" cast on the side in large letters. I guess the Pontiac engineers didn't want the engine to be called a Chevrolet, as the "PONTIAC" casting was very prominent and hard to miss.

I knew a drag racer in the 70's that had a record holding 6 cylinder dragster with one of these "Pontiac" engines. He was a Chevy guy and would grind off the Pontiac casting to avoid ribbing from his Chevy buddies, but the record was published as a Pontiac powered dragster.

[red70goat]

Gee, and those would be Pontiac / GM manufactured parts, just about the same time Pontiac / GM started inbreeding with Holden : correct?

Originally Posted by 87LC2

It's funny, I sold my 1969 GTO and have recieved a few calls from the new owner.

It seems after a few months the master cylinder started to leak, master cylinder is 5 years old.
A few months after that the engine ate a cam and lifter, engine is 6 years old.

Great car....

[red70goat]

Originally Posted by 87LC2

It's funny, I sold my 1969 GTO and have recieved a few calls from the new owner.

It seems after a few months the master cylinder started to leak, master cylinder is 5 years old.
A few months after that the engine ate a cam and lifter, engine is 6 years old.

Great car....

Yeah, you're right. Great car. It is such a tragedy for Holden that the well known and credible Monaro had to be saddled with such a lackluster and embarrasing name such as GTO. I'm sure it would have sold much better in the states without it.

[Mr_GTO]

Originally Posted by red70goat

Yeah, you're right. Great car. It is such a tragedy for Holden that the well known and credible Monaro had to be saddled with such a lackluster and embarrasing name such as GTO. I'm sure it would have sold much better in the states without it.

Well then explain to me how a NAME CHANGE was going to make it sell better. Please...I'll be waiting on you troll.

Oh fyi, quickest, best handling, best emissions, best fuel economy, most comfortable GTO ever built. FACT.

[87LC2]

My 1970 Buick Skylark was a better car than my 1969 GTO, the Skylark was beat up and had more miles but was a better overall car. Not as tempermentel and fragile.

Truth be told, I wish I had a car like the Monaro years ago.
I've owned Skylarks, Cutlasses, LeMans/GTO, Regal Turbo T, but no Chevelles.
The quickest and best handling car was the more modern Buick TurboT, it put all the old muscle cars to shame.

The Monaro is not nearly as quick as the Buick but the handling is light years above any GM "A" or "G" body car.

The Monaro, as you call it, is in a class above the old muscle cars.

Originally Posted by HemmingsMuscleMachine

....the car is so good, the whiners would be complaining if Pontiac didn't call it a GTO.

Can't please everybody, but at least I got the best GTO made.