[Baron Von Zeppelin]

$35.95 to Cleveland from PMD in 1965
So $30.05 to an upper Ohio location seems plausible.
07 Michigan Zone evidently covers a little more than Michigan.
Must have a bit of upper Ohio in it too.
That is my best speculation.
Being able to have and de-code these type documents is such a big bonus.


= = = = = = = = = = = = =

66 #541 = Pwr Locks / 542 = Power Top / 544 = - - - Tailgate

But like you know - verbage on these build orders can be generic across the board.
Sometimes have to have the right order form to put the code to the car correctly.
Or you end up with Police options on GTO's etc ...

+ + + + + + + + +

From the 592 reading i did in other threads, either MH or wmurrel had the Bluemist Slate car. One of them mentioned having a Zone Billing xx-992

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

One of the Pontiac websites has a mapped version of the PMD zones.
I didn't copy it or bookmark it though.

Some states were split and shared in sections etc ...

This one wasn't easy to catch.
Ohio has a zone (08) - but evidently Michigan zone (07) pulls in a bit of Ohio.

MH , would you maybe be able to confirm that RD Buick Pontiac in Tiffin Ohio had dealer code of 07-654 ? That would be cool.

[Option 382]

Originally Posted by Baron Von Zeppelin

I did a search in this section on 592 and read all i could find.
Never found a BHC posted though ?
Seems to only be 4 known 65 specimens, and only 2 have shared.

This Tiger Gold car - have it
Keith's Black Royal car - have it
MH's car
wmurrels car

My 65 has the 592 code on the PHS billing history card.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Originally Posted by Option 382

My 65 has the 592 code on the PHS billing history card.

You're just making that up !
lol j/k

Share it with us - i posted my BHC and Trim Tag for you already.
And knock us over with both window stickers if you still have them too
It'll make it easier for us than to have to decode all those numbers

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

On a hunch, i did find more 07 Pontiac Michigan Zone dealers in OHIO.

07 054 Bockey Motor Sales, Delphos, OH
07 167 Might be Maxton Motors, Butler, OH
07 267 Front Pontiac Sales, Perrysburg, OH
07 596 Oen Pontiac-Buick, 211 E Auglaize, Wapakoneta, OH 45895
07 675 Roth Pontiac, Cherry St, Toledo, OH


On a side note - i can't work the math backwards on a 65 GTO to get the price (if any) for Tiger Gold in 65. The Invoice Total they use on 65 BHC is Dealer Net/Cost.
All i have is Retail prices . Which overshot the target quickly.
Have asked John V for help .

[John V.]

BVZ, I will catch up in a sec.

But pretty good chance RD Buick Pontiac was Pontiac Dealer Code 07-654.

As a Buick Dealer they also were assigned a Buick Dealer Code, 07-387.

R.D. Buick-Pontiac Inc.
675 N. Sandusky St.
Tiffin, OH 44883

Dealers that handled Buick and Pontiac were assigned separate codes by BMD and PMD.

Buick Zone locations were somewhat different than Pontiac Zone locations but 07 was located in the Detroit area for both and if Tiffin was in Zone 07 for Buick, seems likely they were in Zone 07 for Pontiac.

Buick did not assign Dealer Codes in alphabetical dealer name order but Pontiac did. And 07-654 would be a good fit for a Pontiac Dealer assigned alphabetically among the "R" dealer names for Zone 07.

Was a tough place to work on Saturday Sept. 19, 1964 apparently!


Source: Advertiser Tribune
Sept. 21, 1964 - Page 4, Column 1

John E. Wagner, 45, of 171 Jefferson street, was dead on arrival at Mercy hospital in an ambulance Saturday at 2:30 p.m. of a heat (sic) heart attack suffered at the R.D. Buick-Pontiac Inc. where he was employed.

Retired recently as a 23-year veteran of the U.S. Air Force, Mr. Wagner had served as staff sergeant. He was a member of Washington Street Methodist church.

Born in this city on March 26, 1919 to John A. and Bessie (Messer) Wagner, he is survived by his mother and his wife, the former Thelma Sharpe, to whom he was married July 17, 1946. A son, Jon lives at home and a daughter, Mrs. Richard (Joyce) Manz is in the process of moving to this city from New Mexico. There are three grandchildren, a brother Carl of Santa Cruz, Calif., a half-sister, Mrs. Francis Schetter, and half-brother, Paul R. Kuhn, both of Tiffin.

Funeral services will be held at 2 p.m. Tuesday in the Bame Funeral Home with the Rev. Ray Krepps in charge. Burial will be in Fairmont cemetery. Friends may call at the funeral home.

[John V.]

Originally Posted by Baron Von Zeppelin

On a side note - i can't work the math backwards on a 65 GTO to get the price (if any) for Tiger Gold in 65. The Invoice Total they use on 65 BHC is Dealer Net/Cost.
All i have is Retail prices . Which overshot the target quickly.
Have asked John V for help .

No help here.

gtoric might have dealer cost info for '65. Try a PM to him.

[Option 382]

Originally Posted by Baron Von Zeppelin

You're just making that up !
lol j/k

Share it with us - i posted my BHC and Trim Tag for you already.
And knock us over with both window stickers if you still have them too
It'll make it easier for us than to have to decode all those numbers

But your not in the 592 club. Since I am the original owner of the car and I special ordered this car, I THINK i know what triggered the 592 code. I like to keep my car private so I will not be posting a PHS of it. But I will discuss options.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

i think 592 means it was a previously damaged body they pulled off the line, and they ran it back down the line again after they doped it up real good. Probably risky since yours is Black. whew- glad mine wasnt 592'd

What do you think it meant ?

[John V.]

Roger, I think your 592 was coded because of the California Closed Crankcase Ventilation system.

I assume your BHC is coded for 614, correct? I remember when we discussed that you ordered the closed system. Since that option was given a Sales Code, I'm assuming it was coded on the BHC.

Ordinarily, options that had a Sales Code would NOT trigger the 592.

However, 614 was NOT an option check off on the regular Order Form and it was NOT an option check off on the All Series Special Equipment Order Form.

Since you ordered the car, perhaps you know the answer, but I believe the ONLY way you could get the CCCV system for a car not destined for California was by written instruction added to the ASSE Order Form in the blank space at the bottom in a box labeled "OTHER SPECIAL ORDER EQUIPMENT".

A written instruction there would have required approval to be built and a Memo issued and would have triggered the 592 on the Manifest to alert the Plant that a special order item was to be included in the build.

California destined cars were coded for 614 on the BHC but NOT the 592. Cal dealers didn't check off for the 614 either, it was automatically added to the build. Not sure what the trigger was, but it did not require a Memo, so no 592 coded.

But for your car, I am reasonably certain that the 614 DID require a Memo, and that is why your BHC is coded 592.

[johnta1]

1. What does the O on the lower 1 group line of Fisher codes on Trim Tag designate ?
W = Softray Windshield
O = ?

Some info I have wrote down says 'O' was for the chrome separator between two tone paint.
Was it a two tone painted car?
Would it have the chrome separator for a vinyl top car?



Interesting dealer info John V.



I think I'll had that number for the Pontiac dealer number, with a disclaimer probably?

[John V.]

John, BVZ decoded the 1O earlier in the thread as chrome separator moldings for the Cordova Top or Two Tone Paint.

I will add my own comment specific to '64 builds.

In the KC & Balt decode article I published in Smoke Signals a few years ago, I listed 1O for the chrome separator moldings for Two-Tone paint but noted it as "unconfirmed".

I also listed 2Y for chrome separator moldings for Cordova Top or Two-Tone paint.

I no longer recall what evidence I had for the two codes except that 2Y seemed confirmed while 1O was not.

I have pix of Pontiac Data Plates for two '64 Two-Tone paint cars and two '64 Cordova Top cars, all have 2Y coded, no 1O.

I can't recall if I have seen '64 KC Data Plates with the 2Y code. Since I was and am aware that the 5 Group codes sometimes differed from Plant to Plant and often changed year to year, I didn't usually rely on Pontiac Plant evidence when I wrote the article for the KC & Balt decodes. But can't say for sure I had evidence of the 2Y from KC cars.

I'd be interested in knowing if anybody has seen the 1O on a '64 Data Plate.

[loadedgoat65]

Originally Posted by MH 1964

I will look into my records over the weekend. I have a Tripower 65 gto that has this code and I think my 1966 Tripower Tiger Gold Convertible has the code both Pontiac build GTOs. Loadedgoat65 nice original GTO, my grandfather prep that car when it was new at RD Buick Pontiac in Tiffin Ohio. Knew the car its whole life, just was never stored good in the barn. Have photos of it in the barn if you ever need them!

Thanks MH 1964. Did you live in the area and know the original owner? Is there something distinctive on the car that you recognize it being the GTO that your grandfather worked on? If you have some pictures of the car and barn and maybe some history of it that would be awesome. Thanks

[MH 1964]

Originally Posted by loadedgoat65

Thanks MH 1964. Did you live in the area and know the original owner? Is there something distinctive on the car that you recognize it being the GTO that your grandfather worked on? If you have some pictures of the car and barn and maybe some history of it that would be awesome. Thanks

Yes and Yes! My grandfather prep all the new cars for the for R.D. Buick in the sixtys thats all he did. He had a little spot just around the corner from the parts counter where he prep all the new cars coming in, Buicks and Pontiacs he retired somewhere around 1980. My mom and I would go there every Saturday to see him. I always walked out with a model or a toy of somekind. Reason I know your car My Mom and Dad bought a 1965 Bonneville and when we picked it up my grandfather was checking in your GTO he was telling me about how special the paint was. I looked under the hood seen the tripower and was hook. My grandfather told me who ordered the car and my Parents knew him I really did not know him. kept track of the car because my uncle was friends with him.

[MH 1964]

Originally Posted by John V.

BVZ, I will catch up in a sec.

But pretty good chance RD Buick Pontiac was Pontiac Dealer Code 07-654.

As a Buick Dealer they also were assigned a Buick Dealer Code, 07-387.

R.D. Buick-Pontiac Inc.
675 N. Sandusky St.
Tiffin, OH 44883

Dealers that handled Buick and Pontiac were assigned separate codes by BMD and PMD.

Buick Zone locations were somewhat different than Pontiac Zone locations but 07 was located in the Detroit area for both and if Tiffin was in Zone 07 for Buick, seems likely they were in Zone 07 for Pontiac.

Buick did not assign Dealer Codes in alphabetical dealer name order but Pontiac did. And 07-654 would be a good fit for a Pontiac Dealer assigned alphabetically among the "R" dealer names for Zone 07.

Was a tough place to work on Saturday Sept. 19, 1964 apparently!


Source: Advertiser Tribune
Sept. 21, 1964 - Page 4, Column 1

John E. Wagner, 45, of 171 Jefferson street, was dead on arrival at Mercy hospital in an ambulance Saturday at 2:30 p.m. of a heat (sic) heart attack suffered at the R.D. Buick-Pontiac Inc. where he was employed.

Retired recently as a 23-year veteran of the U.S. Air Force, Mr. Wagner had served as staff sergeant. He was a member of Washington Street Methodist church.

Born in this city on March 26, 1919 to John A. and Bessie (Messer) Wagner, he is survived by his mother and his wife, the former Thelma Sharpe, to whom he was married July 17, 1946. A son, Jon lives at home and a daughter, Mrs. Richard (Joyce) Manz is in the process of moving to this city from New Mexico. There are three grandchildren, a brother Carl of Santa Cruz, Calif., a half-sister, Mrs. Francis Schetter, and half-brother, Paul R. Kuhn, both of Tiffin.

Funeral services will be held at 2 p.m. Tuesday in the Bame Funeral Home with the Rev. Ray Krepps in charge. Burial will be in Fairmont cemetery. Friends may call at the funeral home.

Yes John the dealer code is right my 1966 GTO was bought there and still have the Proteco-Plate and it confirms this. One Picture of the car in the Barn.

[loadedgoat65]

Originally Posted by MH 1964

Yes John the dealer code is right my 1966 GTO was bought there and still have the Proteco-Plate and it confirms this. One Picture of the car in the Barn.

Yep that's the car, thanks MH 1964. Does your uncle still keep in contact with the original owner? I was supposed to get the Protecto Plate with the car but it never happened.

[MH 1964]

Originally Posted by loadedgoat65

Yep that's the car, thanks MH 1964. Does your uncle still keep in contact with the original owner? I was supposed to get the Protecto Plate with the car but it never happened.

No, My uncle retired and move to Florida. The owner has not lived in Tiffin for years that was his moms house, they sold the whole farm. the barn is gone now. The Koons tore the inside of that car up pretty bad the Protecto-Plate was laying on the floor the only thing left was the plate itself the koons ate the book, I did not reach in the car. Good to see someone will take care of the car.

[loadedgoat65]

You say the only thing left was the plate itself, do you know what happened to the plate? Were you there when they took the car out of the barn? Would your uncles name happen to be Norm?