[67SS&99SS]

I am still having problems getting my car to crank up. The car is getting fuel, and there is spark at the plugs. I have took a lot of pictures and made a short video so that it may help diagnose a problem I am over looking. Here is what I have done so far.

1. New dash/engine wiring harness from YNZ Yesterday Parts
2. N.O.S. Distributor part #1110284 had N.O.S. points, condensor and rotor button inside, as well as an N.O.S. vacuum advance and cap.
3. N.O.S. Ignition Switch
4. New wires
5. New plugs gapped at .035"
6. New coil.
7. Rebuilt carb.
8. Took generator and starter to rebuild shop to have them checked out. Everything is good with them.

1. I installed the new wiring harness just as it outines in the 62 chassis/shop manual. The only wires I have not hooked up are for the wiper, and the coolant temperature sender.
2. The distributor that was in the car was #1110282. I replaced it with #1110284. The ad where I purchased the distributor said that this distributor is for the low compression 4 cyl. The number on my block is 79Y and the 62 chassis shop manual says it is the lower compression 8.6:1 4 cyl that would come with an automatic trans, which my car has. Before I removed the distibutor, I made sure that I had the engine on 6* BTDC. The top line on the balancer was lined up with the pointer. I covered this line with white out to make it more visable. When I installed the new distributor, I moved the distributor base until I had the rotor button pointing exactly at the #1 plug wire on the distributor cap. Then I tightened down the distributor and put the cap on.













3. I purchased an NOS ignition switch off ebay, and installed it. The threads are slightly messed up so I cannot put my bezel back on it yet. I have to hold it when I crank it over. My horn started working when I replaced my old switch with this one.

4. I installed a new set of 7mm plug wires.

5. I took the plugs back out of the motor, cleaned them, and reinstalled them.

6. Installed new coil. Engine wiring harness lead wire is connected to the + side of the coil, the distributor lead is connected to the - side of the coil.



7. The carb I rebuilt was shot because gas was leaking around the throttle shaft, and it had a lot of play in it. I was scared it was creating vacuum leaks, so I got one from the parts parts store. I bottomed out the idle air screw, then backed it out 1 and 1/2 rounds.



Here is a video of what the car sounds like now when I try to crank it.

[63Banshee]

Something is wrong with the sound on your video... I didn't hear any cussing.

Try jumping it. Sounds like it's turning over way slow.

[Peter Serio]

You have changed & replaced so many different things at this point I would simply go "back to basics." Check your fuel, spark, compression & timing. When was the last time the engine was running?

[62eyadams]

Well, it sounds like your battery is low. I'd start by charging it up. Next, I would get a friend to crank it while you check the timing with a gun. On my '62 the timing was about 100 degrees out the in spite of my efforts to find TDC and line up the distributor.

And, although I hate to use it, I would also try starter fluid. If it starts with starter fluid and runs, but then won't re-start, that suggests that your carb needs help.

[67SS&99SS]

Originally Posted by 63Banshee

Something is wrong with the sound on your video... I didn't hear any cussing.

Try jumping it. Sounds like it's turning over way slow.

Thats what I thought at first. The guy that checked the starter out said that it was a low torque starter and it was just the starter's nature to turn slow. There has been some colorful language, just not in the video. I have tried jumping it with my 69 C/10 and have took the battery out of my thunderbird to try to crank it. The thunderbird battery has 1,000 cranking amps, and it still wouldn't fire up.

[67SS&99SS]

Originally Posted by Peter Serio

You have changed & replaced so many different things at this point I would simply go "back to basics." Check your fuel, spark, compression & timing. When was the last time the engine was running?

About 1 month ago. It ran flawlessly with the carb I rebuilt, timing set at 6*, the new wiring harness, the old distributor, and current coil. I drove it 10 miles, no hiccups or anything. The next weekend, I got the car out to service the trans and differential, and pulled it around to the garage. This is a distance of about 50 yards, and I let the car idle for about 5 minutes before I shut it off. I went to town to get gear oil and transmission fluid, came back and the car would not fire up for anything. Has not ran since then.

Car is getting fuel, I have a clear fuel filter directly in front of the carb inlet. I took all the plugs out today, had my dad turn the engine over and I put my finger over each spark plug hole to check for air coming out. There was. I do not have a compression tester. I haven't put the timing light on it yet. The car has spark, I can ground a plug out and it will spark. Before I put the new distributor in the car, I checked the points. They were set at .016".

[67SS&99SS]

Originally Posted by 62eyadams

Well, it sounds like your battery is low. I'd start by charging it up. Next, I would get a friend to crank it while you check the timing with a gun. On my '62 the timing was about 100 degrees out the in spite of my efforts to find TDC and line up the distributor.

And, although I hate to use it, I would also try starter fluid. If it starts with starter fluid and runs, but then won't re-start, that suggests that your carb needs help.

I have a 35 amp fast charge/200 amp starter battery charger. I charged the battery to full charge first then put it on the 200 amp start position and tried cranking it twice and it still will not fire. I will have my dad hold the timing light on it tomorrow when I try to crank it.

When I pulled the plugs today to to the compression check, when my dad turned the motor over, there was a lot of gas coming out of the back cylinder. None out of the other three. The engine appears to me as if it is sitting in the car in a slightly sloped position, being higher in the front than the back. So I assume this is the reason why more gas is getting back there?

Any pontiac people in northeast georgia or the upstate of south carolina?

[azkeebler]

It doesn't sound like it is cranking much slower than mine, however, it does sound a little slow. Should still fire.

Possibilities doubtful or otherwise.

1. Not enough fuel for start-up. Try the starting fluid thing. Just because you have a clear filter(which looks like it is empty in the pic) doesn't mean the carb is letting it in. Floats stick closed , rebuilt or not. Also, It is possible the fuel pump diaphram is weak and not supplying enough and allowing the fuel to return to the tank as fast as it is delivering it. It likely ran before because once it was running, the pump was pumping at a faster rate in order to keep ahead of the bleed back. Just a thought.

2. Being that it does crank slow, is it possible that your engine ground is weak? Check resistance from your engine block to chassis ground with ohm meter. Should at least be near if not 0. The distributor relies on ground as well. I know you say you have spark, however, it is a possibility that the plugs are not grounding in the head if the head isn't getting adequate ground. Obviously , check the surfaces on the head where the plugs mate to make sure they get good ground.

3. It is possible that your cam timing is walking. Pull the distributor cap. Then slowly rotate the crank clockwise and watch when the rotor moves. Now, reverse direction of the crank and again , watch when the rotor moves. You shouldn't have much play in the the distributor between the reversing of direction of the crank. Give ot take 3 degrees. Could be a strecthed timing chain or gear. Even though this sounds unlikely, it is possible. I have had plenty of vehicles that do exactly the same symptoms that you are having, including gas in the cylinder with no fire, and timing gear was worn. ( distributor runs off cam , cam runs off crank, one of these out of time, no worky)

4. Don't be a afraid to play with the timing until you get some sort of life out of it. Some sort of backfire, something, will give you some idea where the problem lies. Even though you have a new distributor, it is possible for the advance mechanism is sticky, stuck, etc. from sitting.Can move against your odds during cranking. I too had the same issue as 62 eyadams. Also, temporarily connect a jumper wire from the pos battery cable to the + on the coil to see if it starts. Your resistor wire may not give the coil enough to power during start up trhough ignition switch. I know , new wiring, still a possibity though.

Keep us posted.

[67SS&99SS]

It doesn't sound like it is cranking much slower than mine, however, it does sound a little slow. Should still fire.

Possibilities doubtful or otherwise.

1. Not enough fuel for start-up. Try the starting fluid thing. Just because you have a clear filter(which looks like it is empty in the pic) doesn't mean the carb is letting it in. Floats stick closed , rebuilt or not. Also, It is possible the fuel pump diaphram is weak and not supplying enough and allowing the fuel to return to the tank as fast as it is delivering it. It likely ran before because once it was running, the pump was pumping at a faster rate in order to keep ahead of the bleed back. Just a thought. I will look into this.

2. Being that it does crank slow, is it possible that your engine ground is weak? Check resistance from your engine block to chassis ground with ohm meter. Should at least be near if not 0. The distributor relies on ground as well. I know you say you have spark, however, it is a possibility that the plugs are not grounding in the head if the head isn't getting adequate ground. Obviously , check the surfaces on the head where the plugs mate to make sure they get good ground. The chassis ground you are referring to, is it the one that is copper and connects the back of the cylinder head or block to the firewall? Should I check the resistance from the bolt that secures it to the firewall to the bolt that secures it to the engine?

3. It is possible that your cam timing is walking. Pull the distributor cap. Then slowly rotate the crank clockwise and watch when the rotor moves. Now, reverse direction of the crank and again , watch when the rotor moves. You shouldn't have much play in the the distributor between the reversing of direction of the crank. Give ot take 3 degrees. Could be a strecthed timing chain or gear. Even though this sounds unlikely, it is possible. I have had plenty of vehicles that do exactly the same symptoms that you are having, including gas in the cylinder with no fire, and timing gear was worn. ( distributor runs off cam , cam runs off crank, one of these out of time, no worky) There is some play in my timing set. When I would move the engine by hand to bring it to 6* BTDC I would have to rotate it back slightly and there was some rotation before the rotor button started going back in the opposite direction. Is there a tensioner in these motors for the timing chain? Could it be possible that the tensioner has broke, and enough slack isn't being taken up in the chain?
4. Don't be a afraid to play with the timing until you get some sort of life out of it. Some sort of backfire, something, will give you some idea where the problem lies. Even though you have a new distributor, it is possible for the advance mechanism is sticky, stuck, etc. from sitting.Can move against your odds during cranking. I too had the same issue as 62 eyadams. Also, temporarily connect a jumper wire from the pos battery cable to the + on the coil to see if it starts. Your resistor wire may not give the coil enough to power during start up trhough ignition switch. I know , new wiring, still a possibity though. When I connect the jumper wire, I do it with the key in the off position, right? I have never done this before and do not want to mess up the new wiring. Should I unhook the resistance wire to the coil when I do this? After I hook up the jumper wire, try to crank it up like normal, right?

[Bill Hanlon]

No where in your information does it say that you have actually observed that there is spark at the spark plugs. Do you have it?

If you do your original statement "Before I removed the distibutor, I made sure that I had the engine on 6* BTDC. The top line on the balancer was lined up with the pointer. I covered this line with white out to make it more visable. When I installed the new distributor, I moved the distributor base until I had the rotor button pointing exactly at the #1 plug wire on the distributor cap. Then I tightened down the distributor and put the cap on." does not say that you removed the cap before removing the distributor and verified that the rotor was pointing at #1. You could have lined it up on #4 instead, pulled the old distributor and then inserted the new one lined up on #1.

[67SS&99SS]

No where in your information does it say that you have actually observed that there is spark at the spark plugs. Do you have it?

My dad grounded a plug on the side of the block while I cranked the engine over. There was spark.

If you do your original statement "Before I removed the distibutor, I made sure that I had the engine on 6* BTDC. The top line on the balancer was lined up with the pointer. I covered this line with white out to make it more visable. When I installed the new distributor, I moved the distributor base until I had the rotor button pointing exactly at the #1 plug wire on the distributor cap. Then I tightened down the distributor and put the cap on." does not say that you removed the cap before removing the distributor and verified that the rotor was pointing at #1. You could have lined it up on #4 instead, pulled the old distributor and then inserted the new one lined up on #1.I removed the cap off of the old distributor verified it was pointing to the #1 plug location before I pulled it out. I done this along with looking at the timing mark on the balancer and feeling air come out of of the spark plug hole to verify that it was at 6*BTDC. I installed the new distributor the same exact way the old one came out. The rotor button on the new one was pointing the same direction that the old one was when I removed it. I swapped out the factory electronic distributor in my 340 'Cuda for a mopar perfomance upgraded electronic unit using this same process and had no problem at all.

[Doug]

Something you might want to check in your distributor is to see that the "metal arm" on your rotor isn't loose and has swung around.

Also, highly unlikely with new parts but your pigtail lead from your points may be grounding against the distributor body where it comes through the side. I had a problem like that. The car would start and run but when the advance plate moved so far, it would expose a piece of the wire where the insulation had worn off and it would ground to the distributor. Drove me crazy trying to figure that out!

[63Banshee]

I haven't been watching this thread and I don't have time to read through it all right now, but I remember you saying you have spark and fuel. I still say your engine is turning over too slow. I have a 45 year old low comp starter on my Sport Coupe and it turns over a lot faster than yours when the battery is 100%. My car won't start either if the battery is low and it turns over slow. Double check your ground cable. It might need replacing or better connection. Ground is more important than the "hot" side... electrons actually flow out the negative side.

If that really isn't the issue, then you simply have a timing issue. Stretched chain can make things interesting. I've found slant 4s to be very timing touchy. If they are off a little bit they will start, but you have to crank them pretty fast.

Get a helper and have them crank that puppy while you turn the dist. Have the helper pump the gas twice and then leave it on the floor.

[67SS&99SS]

Something you might want to check in your distributor is to see that the "metal arm" on your rotor isn't loose and has swung around. The rotor button is new, and I took it off of the distributor when I first got it when I was inspecting everything. It is secured tight.

Also, highly unlikely with new parts but your pigtail lead from your points may be grounding against the distributor body where it comes through the side. I had a problem like that. The car would start and run but when the advance plate moved so far, it would expose a piece of the wire where the insulation had worn off and it would ground to the distributor. Drove me crazy trying to figure that out!I thought I was having this issue with my old distributor so I replaced the lead wire with a new one. It didn't change. The new distributor's wiring is in great shape. No nicks, scrapes or bare places on the insulation.

[67SS&99SS]

I haven't been watching this thread and I don't have time to read through it all right now, but I remember you saying you have spark and fuel. I still say your engine is turning over too slow. I have a 45 year old low comp starter on my Sport Coupe and it turns over a lot faster than yours when the battery is 100%. My car won't start either if the battery is low and it turns over slow. Double check your ground cable. It might need replacing or better connection. Ground is more important than the "hot" side... electrons actually flow out the negative side. Okay, I will definately check my ground wire. If the starter speed does not increase, is there a parts store that I can buy a quality rebuilt starter for this engine?

If that really isn't the issue, then you simply have a timing issue. Stretched chain can make things interesting. I've found slant 4s to be very timing touchy. If they are off a little bit they will start, but you have to crank them pretty fast.

Get a helper and have them crank that puppy while you turn the dist. Have the helper pump the gas twice and then leave it on the floor. Will do this tomorrow. The weather is poor right now.

[63Banshee]

Originally Posted by 67SS&99SS

Okay, I will definately check my ground wire. If the starter speed does not increase, is there a parts store that I can buy a quality rebuilt starter for this engine?
[/I][/B]

Not a part you can get at checker auto parts...

Question for everyone. The specs on '62 and '63 starters are the same, yes? If so, I should be able to hook our buddy up with a good used one out of a '63 if he needs it.

[67SS&99SS]

Thanks for the help 63Banshee.

The weather cleared off earlier than I thought it would so I got about an hour in working on the car. First, I pulled out all the plugs, and brought the motor to TDC according to to the balancer and the feeling of air going by my finger. Then I got a pencil and a flashlight. I poked the pencil down in the spark plug hole and shined the light in there to see where the piston was. To the best of my knowledge the piston was at TDC. I checked out other cylinders and the piston was in different places in each, but the 1st one was at the top. Then I pulled the fan belt by hand, back and forth to see how much play was in the timing set. I made a mental note of where the balancer was before I started, then pulled on the belt until I saw the rotor button move. I think I have about 3-4* of slack in the chain. So, I set the balancer at 6* top dead center with no slack in the chain for the way the engine rotates. Next, I removed the new distributor, and put the old one back in. The new distributor's vacuum advance was hitting on the block and I couldn't move it enough to line up the rotor button and the #1 plug wire on the cap. After setting the old distributor by lining up the #1 plug wire on the cap with the tip of the rotor button, I locked it down, and reinstalled all of the plugs and wires. I got in the car and cranked the engine over. The battery was weak from the day before, but at least it is backfiring some through the carb now. Before it wasn't doing anything. Tomorrow I will charge the battery and try to jump the car off with the 35/200 amp battery charger/starter I have. Hopefully I can get it going.

[63Banshee]

What's the latest?

[67SS&99SS]

I worked on it for about 3 hours Thursday. Still won't do anything. I cleaned the ground wire, charged the battery, and tried adjusting the timing in about a 110* sweep of the distributor. All it would do is backfire. I pulled the rad out and am getting ready to pull the timing cover to see if something is wrong in there. I ordered a timing set, and the gaskets. Where can I get the guides and the tensioner spring?
I haven't touched it since then. I worked on my first gen camaro today, put a new rear body harness in it. Simple unlike working on the tempest.

[fasteddy]

What WAS the compression reading in each cylinder? Did you notice number 4 as being real low in relation to the others?